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Olivier de St Raph

Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car

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Foreword:

When I have begun this project, I had a lot to learn about this legendary car that I had decided, very lately (I was about to build another legendary Ford, the T model), to construct.

I just knew that I loved her unique and dynamic design, and that I intended to build a red Convertible version, like the one belonging to the father of one of my good friends...

I even didn't make the difference between the Coupe and the Fastback versions, what would lead me to order the Fastback 1/24 Revell kit, while the conversion to a Convertible would be much more easy from a Coupe. It may be added that I preferred a bigger scale, and the 1/16 AMT Coupe kit became so an obvious choice, despite its old age...

I realized a bit too late this first error.

The reader will notice that in the first month, I would change my mind several times, especially about the rims and later about the precise version.

That is why in the first pages, I was focused (among others) on the right red color to apply, while I would finally, in these last days, about 1 month after the beginning of this topic, change my mind and decide to build the Wimbledon White Indy 500 Pace car version (post# 128, p. 6).

Only fools never change their mind, and so, I must be very clever :D...

The follower who will begin reading this topic will find out pages and pages these changes coming into my tortured brain...

 

I apologize  for that and I thank you for your comprehension

 

Olivier, August 12, 2018, edited August 21.

 

.........................................................

 

Hello to all,

 

After the P-51D Mustang "Missouri Armada", here I am, back again, for a new Mustang project, but in the vehicles section this time . I love the Ford Mustang Convertible in her vintage version of about 1965, especially in the Red color. But, very curiously, there is not a single kit, at any scale, of this wonderful and legendary car:

bsqoDX.jpg

 

This photo shows a Ford Mustang 1965 that belongs to the father of a good friend of mine, and I am going to go and meet him - he doesn't live too far from me -. He kindly sent to me a few photos of his amazing Convertible Mustang, exactly the one I'd like to represent. Of course, I will complete these photos by many other ones I will do when I meet him... 

 

There are a few kits of the hard top one, but I clearly prefer the Convertible.

 

So I decided to buy the quite recent Revell 1/24 kit, and to modify it to get the Convertible of my dreams:

YNAumy.jpg

 

I would have preferred a bigger scale, but the only proposition one is the old and probably quite poor AMT 1/16 one:

DsvSEK.png

 

I should get tomorrow the Revell kits (I bought 2 sets on the Conrad site, considering the low cost of this kit, and in order to have replacement parts in case of problem). For info, the 2 sets are less than 40€ including shipping... 

 

I hope this build will get followers interested.

 

Cheers

 

Olivier

 

P.S: before beginning this new thread, I have checked in Britmodeller if someone had ever built this Convertible vintage Mustang but no, no one did that. I just found this in the Ready for inspection section, a fastback version build from the same Revell kit, by MikeGTC:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi0iIGgwpfcAhXIvRQKHeW2CewQFgh8MA0&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britmodeller.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F234986065-revell-1965-ford-mustang%2F&usg=AOvVaw23A8SlcekIQQb2BDMrigX_

 

 

Mike used a Torch Red from Zero Paints. Originally, the Mustang in 1965 could have 2 kinds of red color, the Rangoon one and the Poppy one (the Mustang of my fathers' friend is a Poppy Red version):

YYoGie.jpg

 

I will have to choose the version and to try to get an authentic one, a first challenge... The Torch Red Mike used seems to correspond rather to the Rangoon Red. Very nice but I think I prefer the Poppy Red, kind of Coral color that I love...

 

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Interesting project mind if I follow along

I have built the Shelby version a couple of times and don't remember any particular problems

 

   Roger

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This should be interesting Olivier!

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I had not noticed that the Revell kit is for a fastback version, while the AMT one is for a coupé.

The latter would be probably easier to change in Convertible, with nearly the same flat trunk, while the Revell Fastback has this oblique prolonged roof, very different from the Convertible one.

I post here the blueprints for a better perception:

1) Convertible: notice that I will represent the car with the hood opened, of course, like on the first photo (post# 1)...

LgDm0T.jpg

 

2) Coupé: the trunk is the same, modif quite simple to do by cutting the roof

kk2Ztn.png

 

3) Fastback: the prolonged roof means a more complicated modif. Was I wrong choosing the Revell kit? Yes, probably, and if you consider that I would prefer a bigger scale, I could finally choose the AMT 1/16 kit!! I am gonna try to see with Conrad if I may return the 2 sets...

If so, I will change the title of my thread

HHleYZ.png

 

 

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My decision is taken, I have just ordered the old AMT 1/16 Coupe kit on ebay (62,80 € including the shipping for 1 set).

With the Italeri/ Protar reissue of the Fiat 806, I was used to work with a poor kit. I don't think the AMT will be worse than the 806 (see the thread "Fiat 806 research and scratchbuilds"). And I will get a unique model that will be about 290 mm lenght, nearly the same than the 806 at 1/12. Working on such a quite big scale should be very exciting!!

That said, if the Revell kit had been a Coupe one, I would have built from the latter, because much more recent, I am sure it is better than the AMT one... 

I apologize for such a change...

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Olivier, You build whatever you want to build. Any Mustang is better than no Mustang.

Can you check if the Convertible trunk lid is the same as the Coupe? There may be a slight difference. 

Many years ago I had a Ford Cortina Mark 2. I found that there was a difference

between the boot/trunk lid for the two door & four door only when I tried to close the

replacement one I'd just fitted. It was less than an inch (25mm) too!

Also, I watched an old episode of Overhaulin' the other week. I think they had a '67 or '68 Mustang

convertible and they fitted Fastback Rear quarter panels (rear wings) as they had more flare 

and so they could fit wider wheels. The '65 is, I hope, probably the same for both cars.

I built a large scale Revell? Mustang years ago. I still have it somewhere.

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On 12/07/2018 at 20:58, Pete in Lincs said:

Can you check if the Convertible trunk lid is the same as the Coupe? There may be a slight difference. 

Yes, I will check that as soon as possible. I have a rdv with my father's friend (that I will call Bernard from now for more simplicity) next Thursday to see his Mustang, do videos and photos. I will probably represent the car with the cover that was provided to hide the soft top and its mechanism. This would mean a more simple job...

 

qC1CbC.jpg

 

bYRB0Y.jpg

 

On 12/07/2018 at 20:58, Pete in Lincs said:

I built a large scale Revell? Mustang years ago. I still have it somewhere.

Oh! I'd love to see it, if you find it... 

Here is, for those interested, a link to a YouTube video presenting the AMT 1/16 kit. I myself have not yet seen it (not the time up to now):

https://youtu.be/-uugrBHwikU

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Another option would be to represent a GT model (Bernard's one is not a GT). Here is a GT model in cream color, gorgeous too:

AzSflR.jpg

 

oe9O26.jpg

 

This would mean some modifs as the AMT kit doesn't represent a GT:

- Fog lights inside the calender

- exit of exhausts in the lower valance panel (correct me if my translation is not good!)

- the dashboard seems to be completely different too, with round meters instead of the linear one

- stickers on the underbody

etc.

Conclusion: I will certainly not represent a GT...

 

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Be aware that the body will have changed in small areas depending on the model year. I don't know too much about Mustangs (I've only driven a Mach 1 :-)), but with Corvettes the subtle changes year to year with bonnet and wing vents, ,exhaust outlets etc. enable you to pinpoint the actual year (or half year) when it was built.

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Hi Olivier!

 

 A nice subject! I'm looking forward to watching you work your magic!!

 

Cheers, H

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5 hours ago, Jo NZ said:

Be aware that the body will have changed in small areas depending on the model year.

Yes, I am but the AMT kit is precisely a 1965 version, the one I want to represent...

 

2 hours ago, harveyb258 said:

A nice subject! I'm looking forward to watching you work your magic!!

 

Thanks a lot, my dear Harvey! I hope I won't disappoint you... but I look forward, very excited, to begin this build. It will change me to have a maximum of infos on a model, while we had just a few BW docs for the Fiat 806...

It will recall me the 1/25 Chevy Bel Air 57 Convertible build, for which I wrote an article for TMM. But for the latter, Revell gave the possibility to build a Convertible version, providing the cover (that I had improved by adding folds and buttons). 

6VSIcD.jpgrZ7RIp.jpg

EDBxlp.jpg

5bU9dF.jpg

Cheers

 

Olivier

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Here is approximately what should be the color of my Mustang. I will check it with Bernard's one. But Zero Paints, as far as I know, does not have this color in their wide range. 

j6V92x.png

 

On my side, I have done trials because I wonder if I really need this paint. I never used that brand, I know car modelers swear by this product. It is to mention that with these paints, you get a mat aspect, and it is only their varnish that gives the gloss finish. In such conditions, it is permitted to wonder if I could just use their varnish on a Tamiya acrylic or enamel paint...

 

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On 7/12/2018 at 1:17 AM, Olivier de St Raph said:

Coupé: the trunk is the same, modif quite simple to do by cutting the roof

 kk2Ztn.png

 

Here in America the street slang for a Mustang Coupe is Notchback. Vs. the Fastback. 

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Thanks for that info, Corsair (sorry, I cut your name ;)).

 

Here is the result of my first trials: the red paint has been applied directly (no primer) on the white plastic. I made trials on both doors, with both acrylic and enamel X7 Tamiya (enamel on the right door). I precise that for now, I want to get a lacquer look, but not necessary the Coral color.

On the paint base, after several hours drying, I have tested the X22 Tamiya acrylic varnish (not very good result) and the Alclad Klear Kote, giving a good result but not excellent, because of a small grain effect. I didn't use the Tamiya Compounds for these first trials.

I must say that, if I may avoid a primer, I would prefer...

Any suggestion welcome...

 

rDoEDc.jpg

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Have you seen the new Tamiya lacquer paints? A starting point would be LP-7 pure red, and there is also a racing red.

 

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On 13/07/2018 at 20:55, Jo NZ said:

Have you seen the new Tamiya lacquer paints? A starting point would be LP-7 pure red, and there is also a racing red.

 

Yes, Jo, I know Tamiya has brought these new lacquer paints. But before buying new products, I want to be sure I can't get a very good result with what I ever have. The manufacturers have a lot of imagination to always sell the maximum of products. I am sure these new LP paints are excellent (as nearly all Tamiya products) but my feeling is that I probably don't need them, as I don't need the Zero Paints. If I can't get the great mirror lacquer effect with what I have, OK, I  buy the LP Tamiya or the ZP. I have learnt a lot from my master and friend Juan Manuel Villalba, famous aircraft modeler, who bewares of mode effects and inflation of new products (for weathering, among other) but who do trials until he finds the good combination and gets amazing results with a minimum of products.

 

And now look at the result I get just by using the Fine and Finish Tamiya compounds on my samples:

1) Right side: No primer, X7 Tamiya enamel paint thinned with Tamiya Lacquer Thinner / Alclad Klear Kote/ Compounds:

tp6420.jpg

 

2) Left side: X7 Tamiya acrylic thinned with 96° alcohol and a small drop of Tamiya Paint retarder/ Alclad Klear Kote/ Compounds:

3TS29y.jpg

 

My conclusions:

1) I can get a fine result without buying and stocking new references. I ever have problems of room for all the products I have:

Ma7CDH.jpg

 

2) I have nearly the same good results with acrylic Tamiya paints than with enamel ones.

 

3) I will use nitrile gloves to handle the painted parts to avoid fingerprints (you can see some on the 2nd photo)

 

4) Now, I have to try to get the Coral Red by mixing paints, what will not be the easiest...

 

Well, I am glad with these results. Would I have better ones with LP references or with Zero Paints ones? Not sure.

 

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10 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

Hi Olivier, mind if I join the party?

 

You are the very welcome, John! :)

The more, the merrier! 

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N.B: Bernard has sent me an email. Unlike what I thought (and wrote above), his Mustang is Rangoon Red and not Poppy Red. We all know that we can't have a very good perception of color with photos, and looking at his beautiful car on the photos, it hardly seemed that she was Poppy Red. 

Now the question remains: what color for my Mustang? Should I try to recrate an authentic color (and in this case, it will be easier to choose the Rangoon, as I have a reference with Bernard's car) or choose my favorite color?

On the net, if I type: Ford Mustang 1965 Convertible Poppy Red, I find this, among many others:

RLTg2f.png

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The Poppy Red would rather be a bright intense orange, if I refer to the color references:

 

9xay6b.png

 

 

Close-up:

tkVugq.png

 

A color that recalls me the one of my Lamborghini Aventador, built in 2015:

UGdZu8.jpg

 

hDGhju.jpg

 

Notice how, following the conditions of light, the same color may give very different perceptions (the Orange is much darker on the 2nd pic)...

The colors are probably the most difficult thing to control...

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More trials to come, especially a mix of Tamiya acrylics X6 (orange) and X7, thinned at about 50/50 with alcohol but without adding Paint Retarder. I get a very fine grain paint, with a mat aspect, but I learned from Zero Paints that the base coat may be mat (and it seems that it is the finish you get with these paints), it doesn’t matter, it is the varnish that will bring the brightness...

The problem is to find a very good varnish. The Zero Paints ones are certainly great, but I found that the Alclad Klear Kote was great too, giving the lacquer finish desired after use of the Tamiya compounds.

The acrylic coat dries very quickly, because of the alcohol thinning. Meanwhile, I prefer to wait at least 2 hours before applying the Alclad Klear Kote.

The goal of these new trials is to get the finest grain possible, and in the same time, to get a quite convincing Poppy Red.

More soon...

I recall that no primer was used, and only 1 coat of paint applied... In other words, a very simple technique, a fine grain and a very thin coat, allowing to keep the maximum of details. Definitely, I have learnt something important with these trials, and I confirm I won't need additional paints, varnishes or any other product.

Another advantage of using the Tamiya acrylics as paint base coat is that we usually have many references in this range, allowing easy mixes to get precisely the color desired. 

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This is a screen capture of a video I found on YouTube, showing a Poppy Red Mustang:

s73pXh.png

 

You can see the difference with Bernard's car (my post# 7 above): on the latter, the contrast with the red lights is low, confirming that his car is indeed a Rangoon Red Mustang (rather a pinkish Red). I have to choose between both colors.

 

I also found this: we may see here both reds, Poppy and Rangoon:

zLyfxE.png

 

I must say that this Poppy Red is a bit too Orange for me. I finally prefer the Rangoon Red, more in touch with the image of the Ford Mustang imho.

I am sorry if these considerations were a bit boring for the reader, with many fluctuations from me...

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Here is the result of my mix X7/ X6. The result is a bit too orange for me, and I will not choose the Poppy Red, but now, I know I can get a very nice state of surface with just the paints and products I ever have. A good new for me (and I hope for other car modelers), not for manufacturers (sorry)...

Sb5ux7.jpg

 

N.B: for the acrylic base coat, I recommend to put more alcohol than paint (60/40). So, you will get a very fine grain, a condition for a good final result... And in the same vein, don't add Tamiya Paint Retarder...

 

I am working now on finding the best combination of acrylic paints to get the Coral Red color I want for my Mustang. A mix of X-7, X-2, X-3 and X-6. Indeed, we could see through many examples that the same color could give different perceptions. In such conditions, why not try to get my favorite color, maybe a compromise between the Rangoon Red (a bit too "Cherry" on some pics, especially the one on the post# 22) and the Poppy Red, too Orange...

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I admire your thoroughness 🙂 .... Didn't mind reading about your thought process at all. Now, very curious to see you Mustang come alive. 

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Thanks a lot JeroenS for these kind and encouraging words. I look forward to begin this build (I should get the AMT kit in less than 10 days). One thing is sure: my emotional coefficient is at 100%, because I really love this gorgeous Pony Car. 

About that, I don't understand that premium kits manufacturers like Tamiya, Ebbro, that have a wide range, do not offer such models. I am sure they would be hits.

 

 

7lnXu7.jpg

 

We may see that this color is quite close from the 2 ones below:

bsqoDX.jpg

 

RLTg2f.png

 

Another personal reason to avoid the X7 color, Pure Red, is that it is the one I used for my Fiat 806. And the same for the Bright Orange, that would be nearly the same than my Aventador, as we could see above. Indeed, all these models will be exposed in the same room.

Now that the (important) question of the body color and lacquer surface is nearly solved, I have to focus on many other aspects. 

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