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cmatthewbacon

RLM 02

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I'm sure this is a real can of worms, but what colour should RLM02 be?

I've got the remains of a can of Humbrol Authentics HG2 RLM02 Grey, and a new can of White Ensign Colourcoats Grau RLM02, and they are clearly NOT the same colour. Both Humbrol Authentics and WEC have a good reputation for accurate research, so what's going on?

The Humbrol is a "battleship" grey, quite dark with perhaps a bluish cast. The WEC version is much lighter "dove"/"camouflage" grey, with maybe a slight greener tinge. Is the RLM02 used on uppersurface camo a different colour than the one for the interior? Do White Ensign incorporate "scale effect" in their paint colours? Has research and thinking changed since the 1970s?

bestest,

M.

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RLM02 is also supposed to be Humbrol 92, recently discontinued. I find the Xtracylix version not quite right, though, being more light grey, than anything else, to my eyes. It's also: Gunze Sangyo H70; Revell 79; and Tamiya XF-22. The colour is a greenish greyish colour, reasonably light. The GS version is very green/grey, the Tamiya version more of a mid grey, the Revell version slightly lighter with more of a green tinge.

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I believe it is all a matter of 'modeler's preference". I like Gunze 02 or Xtracrylics 02. Tamiya is so very very wrong with its RLM Gray (which is a good Dark Slate Gray).

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I believe... Tamiya is so very very wrong with its RLM Gray (which is a good Dark Slate Gray).
I'd agree with that, it's closer to RLM66 Edited by Osher

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Tamiya German Gray is a good RLM 66. The RLM Gray is no German color.
Yes, of course, I meant though that it's part way between the two. It has a slight greenish tinge, but it's dark, like 66. I guess lightened it could be RLM02 though?

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Humbrol had some excellent German colours in their original Authentic sets (in the late 60s?), particularly the 74/75/76 set, but several of their offerings went well off when the cans became available separately - the 76 was particularly bad. I don't recall the original 02, but the later one was indeed a long way from the true colour.

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A real can of worms indeed!

In reality, even the RLM could not guarantee uniformity of the colour of 02 between the batches produced by the many paint manufacturers supplying paint to both the aircraft companies and the Luftwaffe. Because this uniformity could not be guaranteed, between late 1940 and the autumn of 1944, the Technical Office of the RLM issued a number of advisory letters essentially stating that this lack of uniformity was of no importance to interior painting and was thus no reason for complaint. Oddly enough and although it was approved for use as an exterior camouflage colour (Bf 109E, early 109F etc), not one of these advisory letters mentions exterior use!

As far as model paints go, like Steven, I prefer to use the Gunze or Xtracrylics 02 but have also found that both the Vallejo Model Colour and Model Air versions of 02 to be quite acceptable. I don’t know about WEM as I haven’t tried any of their colours yet (unless they’re the same as Xtracrylics that is!). My reason for choosing these particular colours is that I (and others) have found that they are generally within the range of being the closest matches to that applied to existing artefacts and IMHO, any of those already mentioned (excluding Humbrol & Tamiya) should suit your purpose.

However, as Steven points out, just like ‘scale effect’ and ‘wear & tear/weathering’ it really comes down to the individual modeller’s preference so, if your completed subject looks right to your interpretation of how the original appeared then be happy with your decision.

As far as alteration of colour goes, as one example, the 02 applied to 109 E-4s & E-7s which had 02/71 upper colours applied at their factory of manufacture would likely appear differently to say an E-1 or E-3 where 02 was applied over the black green 70 or dark green 71 segments of the pattern. This likely also held true where it was used in other camouflage ‘adjustments’ throughout the war but then you begin to get into the numerous variables that would affect the final appearance such as consistency of paint use, how was it thinned/mixed/applied and so on ad infinitum.

Probably more than you wanted but I hope it will be of some use.

Cheers

Dave

Edited by tango98

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I built an Airfix Dornier 17 earlier this year and, not having any 02 in stock, mixed Humbrol 86 and 90 to get an approximation of the colour. You can get an idea of the colour here:

PICT0002-11.jpg

Since I had mixed a fairly big batch, I used the same colour as an undercoat for the airframe:

PICT0008-5.jpg

PICT0009-4.jpg

It then occurred to me that I didn't have the appropriate grey for the camouflage scheme either, but recalling discussions on the net about 02 and 63 being either the same or very close colours, I decided to go with my home brew. Low and behold, when combined with the green and brown, the grey looks a lot less green and much more like a pale neutral grey!

PICT0004-10.jpg

It illustrates nicely a few of the factors that influence our colour perception.

John

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Former rec.models.scale poster, Mark Shannon, had a Humbrol mix for RLM02. It was equal parts 34, 72, 159 and 92. The result was a light/medium grey with a brownish green tint.

Joseph

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I think the two I've used were quite good. Acrylic was Lifecolor and the enamel was from Extracolour. Both turned out the same colour, at least they did on my six Ar234's (enamel) and twenty-two Me262's (acrylic). BTW none of the 234's or 262's (started about ten years ago) have been finished yet! I tend to build very slowly!

Paul Harrison

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Haveing both Eagle editions luftwaffe color chart, and Merricks latest, Luftwaffe camoflouge and markings 39-45, WEM's 02 most closely matches the chips in either, , each of wich is matched to different luftwaffe contracted Piant manufactureres, if that makes any sense :hmmm:. I'm of the personal opinion that, while there is variations in the colors from batch to batch, manufacturer to manufacturer, I seriously doubt that they were to such extremes as to be noticable enough to justify the noticable extremes in model piant manufacturers colors, and use there of :angrysoapbox.sml: . Personaly, no matter what other opinions are, I'll stick to the opinions of those who've researched the issue :book: , so WEM it is, with Model Air 044 light green a close and viable second place ;) from model piant manufacturesr I have access to.

:crap:

Lecture over :analintruder::analintruder::analintruder:

Edited by nsmekanik

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Use any reasonable 02 you want and that is available to you and that you like to use. There are enough options. As Dave "Tango 98" ( a well respected researcher) noted, there was not one exact shade of 02. Now if some other researcher comes over and wants to inspect your work..... :bobby: Don't let him in without a search warrant.

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