Troy Smith

the roundel is 36 inch, the white and yellow rings are 2 inch, the serial is 8 inches high. Just from looking at this, and working in typical imperial divisions I'd suggest 24 inch high letters with a 4 inch stroke. @JackG has been very good at analysing pics. Note the old Tamiya Vb trop kit came with AN-V codes a bit of searching may find a better scan of the decals one here but small https://modelingmadness.com/scott/allies/gb/spit5bpreview.htm HTH

@Paul Lucas are the Stores Ref in the quote MAP colours? I'm presuming so as the RIAF was started using ex British equipment. In particular do you know what the Blue, Yellow, Green and Saffron are as colours? Hopefully an interesting thread for you as well. Cheers T

as I said earlier, Tamiya is quite 'hot' for an acrylic, using Butanol, a 4 carbon alcohol, as a solvent. Your thinner mix is still 'hot' from the IPA, which is a 3 carbon alcohol. This is why just water. You don't need more of an alcohol. This is why the paint is apparently drying (solvent evaporation) but then dragging up, as the solvent in the paint then partly dissolves the paint. Your thinning it way too much if that's 3 parts thinner to 1 part paint? My technique, I use a bit of flat brass strip to stir Tamiya, and add a few drops to a palette. I make a syringe up of water and flow improver, this allows you to only draw up a very small amount of FI. Shake syringe to mix. I suggest a 1ml syringe, you may not even need the FI, just I have some. Add this a drop at a time to the paint to thin. Think milk. Brush thinly, you should be able to recoats as soon as touch dry, as stated as well, acrylic touch dries fast, but takes time to cure into a shell, adding layers while still curing means they bond with the already applied paint, but then cures into one layer. You should not need a retarder. It may help as you have bought it now. As with anything experiment on a mule first until happy with the technique. HTH T

Hmm, the 48th Arma kit is to Hurricane models what the 48th Eduard Merlin 60 series Spitfire kits are other 48th Spitfire kits. You get what you pay for. Since Revell have now released a Mk.IIC kit, your in luck. There were no B models in Belgian markings Both in 72nd and 48th they THE kit. Not cheap, if your not bothered about various issues the other kits have not a problem, but they are really just way better than anything else available if you study the subject. Be interesting to see how much the Kotare kit retails at.

Hi Rich What do you need retarder for? All it does is slow drying, time, you have not explained what you are trying to do, or want to achieve. For brushing water works very well, or are you airbrushing? And if so, what do you want the retarder to do? Tip dry? fast drying is one of the plus of acrylics, but note while they touch dry fast, they can take a few days to actually cure fully. Two points. 1.You can ask very detailed questions on here, but explain what you want and are trying to do. 2. the site search is not very good, but adding Britmodeller into a google search term can work very well, and you may find that what you are asking about has been discussed before. HTH

Revell Contacta is a liquid polystrene glue, in the family of plastic solvents like Tamiya Extra Thin, Humbrol Liquid poly etc. It won't work with paint but will probably eat through the paint, The metal tube is instead of a brush to apply it. The components of these is a chemical mix, a while back someone posted the safety data sheet for Tamiya Extra Thin, one of the main components is Methyl Ethyl Ketone often abbreviated to MEK, also know as Butanone, The was Ethyl Acetate.... I ended up buying a litre of MEK off ebay.... It's very good, but hot, and very very thin. Apparently it goes off but a litre was £12 posted, which put the cost of model glue into perspective. I also made a a load of sprue goo as I have plenty to play with. Another poster here mentioned dissolving clear sprue in MEK to make basically tube glue, I mention this as it's just about what these glues are, styrene solvents. It's useful to know you can thin tube glue with liquid glue though, and tube glue has it's uses, older kits were meant for tube glue, where the added dissolved styrene gives them some body and grab, I found them very handy in small dabs on an old Matchbox kit where liquid glue was too thin. with care, like any other styrene solvent glue. Used carelessly it will cloud PVA is often used, I had some high grade waterproof fast grab woodwork PVA (Wudcare 5 minute) which works very well. HTH

Given that the Trumpeter Fairey Battle has a poor prop, an AM one may emerge soon Many years ago Aeroclub did a white metal Battle prop for the Classic Airframes kit, so you may wish to keep an eye out for one of these. If you are after unique Canadian features, their is the Canadian Mk.II radiator, in 1/48th this was included in the Hobbycraft kit. https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235086563-hurricane-radiators-is-there-a-tropical-or-later-type-on-the-mkii-and-iv-and-is-there-a-different-canadian-inlet-shape/ PLus there are the cowling parts that are slightly different. https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235104429-canadian-hurricane-mkxii-some-detail-observations-and-questions/ I knw I linked these back on page 1 but just for ease of reference. we need someone to 3D print a ski undercarriage set as well I'd wait. It's quite possible that Arma will do one, their 1/48th kit is set up to do a Mk.I, well, it has a common parts tree so it's part way to a Mk.I, and there are plenty of interesting marking possibilities with a fabric wing, including the mid 1940 Hawker built ones... Or go large, I suspect the forthcoming Kotare Hurricane kit is going to be better than their Spitfires, and they have been very well received, and they are starting with a early fabric wing kit.. It's taken a while but the Hurricane is finally getting it's due.. cheers T

Not available in Canada at the time? Or not available from bomber units due to service bureaucracy? Recall that many Hurricane built in Canada lacked various parts, leading to the reuse of Battle Merlin III and cut down props to allow the RCAF to have flyable Hurricanes, against resistance from the Battle users. @dogsbody @Carl V ? AFAIK the Canadian built B wing was the same as the British. Again, AFAIK all the B wings were made to take bomb carriers, it was just initial A wings fitted to the IIA that were not. Regarding internal modifications, and looking at this photo again The carrier will mount onto the wing spars, front and back, note the 3 holes in the end plates, from what I can see the rear of the carrier is at the top of the photo, judging from where the bomb lugs are, and where they are in the streamlined fairing. Would the carrier wining have been fed through the unused shell ejection slot? A quick look at the manual didn't turn up any details on stores fitting.

allows for 5 spoke hubs from the L/N serials and the later 4 spoke, as AFAIK the tyres are the same.

I've never seen anyone on here refer to Owatrol? I presume you mean this? https://www.owatroldirect.co.uk/product/floetrol/ From the bio, probably, if you have do a test and let us know. My experience in brushing Tamiya (and the usual comment on here is does not brush well) is to add water with 3-5% flow improver, and use a small FLAT brush. Tamiya uses Butanol as a solvent, and this is fairly 'hot' and evaporates fast, so if you don't thin Tamiya it tends to drag up on the next brush stroke, water makes it less hot, the flow improver just reduces surface tension. The product above may well work very well, give it a go on a paint mule. HTH

AFAIK the bomb carrier is external, with a streamlined fairing. Inside the gun bay has plate or strip, the actual wing structure being the sandwiched between the two parts. This is an unfaired bomb carrier, from, and while a warbird, was flown with the streamlined farings and bomb carriers in place the bomb carrier images are from here https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/71906-hawker-hurricane-mkii/ the cap or top plate, or probably where it fits, is just about visible here. and as flown I asked as I have only seen photos of Hurricanes with bomb carriers with the streamlined fairings as seen above, and I 'tagged' you as you know far more about armament details like this than I do. Can you identify the depth charge type? While on a photo hunt, I found this, the only image I found without the streamlined fairing, evidently a test aircraft. I don't know what these carriers are for. PS EDIT - above is Z3451, testing small bomb carriers, a side view is in The Secret Years, flight testing at Boscombe Down by Tim Mason

Just an overview, and frugal is good, depends if you enjoy upgrading kits. The old Airfix needs a lot doing really unless you just want a two foot shelf model, which is does well. You get what you pay for. While it's not cheap, you'd have to spend a long time and and lot of effort to replicate the surface detail of the Arma kit, let alone it not having the problems present in the other 48th kits. At present it's the best Hurricane kit made in any scale, both in detail and accuracy, as well as being buildable. I mention this as the Fly 32nd kits have some great detail but are notably tricky to build. I'd avoid the Italeri/Tamiya kit unless really really cheap. I've given pointers for others. In case you have not seen it this page http://modelingmadness.com/splfeat/kr/has48b.htm has a list of what is in every Hasegawa Hurricane boxing. One point, ALL the boxings have tree K which has what is closest to a CM/1 spinner, one of the two 'bullet' spinners used. Hope you find something suitable and cheap cheers T

@Selwyn Any thoughts on this, or is the photo to indistinct?

I recall trying to do this 45 years ago... and not finishing, and not knowing all the things I just told you. You will end up doing a rescribe as well, as you'll eliminate the raised lines, so it will end up a load of work. Somewhere in a box I have a Airfix Hurricane i was upgrading, which I should revisit, as I'd rescribed it and done various other bits and pieces, but really, honestly the 1980 1/48th Airfix kit is like a 72nd kit scaled up, the basic shapes are good, (I think the wing is little thin, only a problem directly head on) it makes a great shelf model, but where it really lack is fine detail, and the join in the wheel well is a PITA to deal with, and what's in there is very basic, the Eduard etch set for the old kit does cover this. Long OOP but turns up as it's for an 'obsolete' kit no longer made. https://www.eduard.com/Eduard/Photo-etched-parts/Photo-etched-set/Aircraft/1-48/Hurricane-Mk-I-1-48.html The kit does have a raised UC option and a well sculpted pilot, so perhaps an in flight option is worth considering, as this blocks off cockpit and wheel well/UC detail issues. Note the also long OOP Hobbycraft kit is basically a copy of the Airifx kit, though it is a Mk.IIc with engraved detail. They also did a boxing with etch parts to make a B wing. There is also the Ark kit, again, the basic are copied off the old Airfix, but with detail parts copied from the Hase kit, saldy not the wheel well, and it has a 3 part lower wing which requires a lot of modelling skill to work, along with numerous other issues... They are just the Hasegawa kit reboxed. The Hase kit has it's own issues, but at present the easiest and most accurate way at present to get a Mk.IIA is a Hase IIB kit, as they way Hase dealt with the kit was just to do a B and C wing, so you need to eliminate the outer wing guns for all the Mk.I options, and the IIA. I mentioned the Hobby 2000 as they are commonly available in Europe, and apparently have decent decals. I expect obtaining a Hase IIB kit, or one of the suitable boxings, would be easier in to find in Australia. Tag me if you want a tweak list. The ideal would be an Arma Hobby Mk.IIa, if you are really skilled you could remove the outer gun bays on the Arma Hobby B wing, except it wipes out all the detail. In time I expect Arma to do a 1/48 Mk.I, the kit is set up with a common parts tree for this, I occasionally pester them and set out what required, it's probably given them a real headache if you really want to cover ALL or nearly all the options that can be a Mk.I Hurricane.... What were small external changes on the real thing are a right pain if you want to cover all the options in plastic kit, like that 2nd fabric hatch on the starboard side. It's pain to fill in larger scale. it's pain to scribe neatly on fabric representation. My suggested solution is you have to make two starboard fuselages.... And once they have done a metal A wing, a Mk.IIa boxing would be easy enough to do, but until then..... Be interesting to see how Kotare deal with this as well in 32nd, as given how they dealt with the early Spitfire they will do the same for the Hurricane, and the early fabric wing is the starter.... the big one will be the BoB Mk.I Interesting times for the Hurricane modeller.. Thanks. It's a bit crap I never finished my conversion, I think the added tweaks I just got a bit bogged down..... Right, enough witter from me. Hope of use.

AFAIK black and Night were the same. The rough finish was R.D.M.2A or 'special night' , the very sooty finish that wasn't effective and weathered badly, which was replace by smooth Night, the S paints that were eggshell in finish. The only one usually refered to as be S type is "Sky type S" but they were the standard paint introduced in 1941 IIRC At this point a @Paul Lucas is in order. re RDM2A from https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Boulton-Paul-Defiant which leads too Yes. Jet. This is certainly an ANA color, and is full gloss black. What was eventually discovered was Night when in a searchlight beam looked grey, as does not reflect light away, but a high gloss finish diffracted/reflected light away with better concealment as a result. @Dana Bell maybe able to add more to the story of Jet It was certainly used on USAAF nightfighters, like the P-61 compare to prop blades Aircraft of 100 Group by Martin Streetly has profiles of late war bomber that used Jet Black this is a Lanc with either a replacement nose in Jet, or a a sub contracted part, anyway, it's gloss black, I don't know if the RAF called it Jet Lancaster service, 1944. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr XF-69 NATO Black is a very dark grey with a greenish hue, XF-85 Rubber Black is a very dark grey with a blueish hue as far as I can see. Re RDM2, an Scale Models mag in 1980 did a series of Battle Of Britain build, and used Plaka black gouache for RDM2. I have seen suggestions of adding a dark red brown to black to break up the starkness as well. 50 Sqn. Lancaster, 1942. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Anyway, hope this adds to the discussion, even if does not directly answer your request @Selwyn

found one in UK at a decent price and have. No idea it existed before this, and without seeing a copy it's hard work out how many or what the photos might be, so if it has a load of Hurricane photos it's a must have. Thanks for the tip. shipping costs. Books are heavy, shipping tends to be expensive. cheers T

no. It's not an 'easy' mod, it's not insanely difficult though, in 48th buy some Evergreen 1x2mm strip for the extension this is the Airfix 48th see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235077619-airfix-hurricane-iia-in-148th-gaffa-tape-here-we-come/ I ran out of enthusiasm for some reason and it went into a box. Looking back at the tricky point of pressing on and not messing up after the hard bits... I think the hard bit was modifying the radiator..... it's deeper and has a different shape intake New deeper radiator, new wider carb intake with a rear fairing. What scale and base kit are you thinking of? In 72ns just use the Arma IIB kit and fill the outer gun bays, in 48th I'd suggest looking for a Hobby 2000 rebox of the Hase IIB/A kit, though I believe a lot of the Hobby2000 boxings unlike the Hasegawa and their 'only bits needed' approach end up with a load of spares, so a Mk.I Hobby 2000 kit will contain the unused Mk.II nose and radiator. There were a couple of Hase boxings that had these bits as options, Eagle Squadron and Croix De Lorriane IIRC as they could be built as Mk.I/II Hase don't get the carb intake right, but most references don't either. The 48th Arma does, and if you do a trop then it has the carb intake leftover. Further clarifications? Just ask... HTH

Originally tooled by, but never issued by Merit, the first time it was available was from Airfix in 1980. Tooling possibly upgraded a bit by Airfix, that was suggested in the Scale Models review at the time. Lovely bit of very fast work here Tony,

can you post them? That would help. I don't have the book and all the copies for sale are outside the UK. Does it have many photos? this one of them? the code size looks to be 24 inch, compare to roundel, 25 inch, N2320 is in the size/style only seen on L/N serial Hurricanes, which is 6 inch high but the standard width. Also, hard to tell for sure, this looks like it has the early type windscreen, curved lower edge, with external armour. DH SPITFIRE unit Wing, as in metal or fabric? There is no neat switch point on wings in the L and N serials the pic above looks to be metal, from landing light position, and the scuffed paint on wing tip, but I'd not swear to it. from photo, black/white wings, aluminium under nose, fuselage and tailplanes. scheme bottom right of this drawing, though when built underwing serials would probably have been applied. for operations over France, bottom right, underwing roundels would have been added. These, of course, vary in size and position..... see here for the whole reference https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Hawker-Hurricane which leads into 18 May post dates the yellow ring and fin flash order. These vary in their application. They tend to be consistent in application in a squadron though. BUT they also got applied at MU's. Look carefully at the autumn 1940 in flight shot, you can fin flash variations, though the fuselage roundels seem very consistent this looks to be having the fin flash applied, the roundel is now a standard 35 inch A1, but note how the codes overlap the yellow ring code reading order (no specified, and did vary, but usually consistent in squadron), the code size looks to be 24 inch, compare to roundel on N2320. LE-H port/ LE-H starboard note this later, and the codes size has increased 242 Squadron 12 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr which is over 50 years old! Treat with caution, some is good, plenty of is now superceded. Some is just wrong, like the Mk.II conversion, certainly the written method.. The issue of the Airfix Mk.I Spitfire as a Vb came with two props and spinners, so the DH Spitfire unit is out there is spares boxes. The kit could also provide the 5 spoke wheel hubs. The Airfix kit has been distorted to accommodate the too scale Merlin, making the nose too deep, the nose ring too big and the spinner oversize and bulbous, and this also make the wing too thick, note how the gun bays have 'floor' piece, which is actually the lower wing, so you can see that the wing is too thick. the tips are also too short and wrong shape from head on. This also makes the ailerons too long, This is possibly fixable, I have as yet not sat down to hack one about to test out my theory, but it involves taking out a 2mm or so slice from the wing leading edge, reshaping and rescribing the tip. Done with care most of the rivet detail can be retained as well. the nose ring can be reduced in size, and if built opened up the depth issue on the nose panels can be ignored. You will need to eliminate the 2nd rectangular starboard hatch, which is not easy to do I was recently sorting through kit bits, and had a look at the Airfix Spitfire spinner, I had many years ago used one on 1/24th Airfix Hurricane, and AFAIK the Spitfire kit has the correct size nose ring, the spinner does not hang over the nose ring of the Airfix Hurricane as a Spitfire sized unit should. I really recommend getting the Wingleader Photo Archive Hurricane Mk.I for an overview of detail changes. Tikkakoski AFAIK, Jyvaskala is the nearest large town That's not a wreck, yes. Most original Hurricane of any mark. HTH

Looks like a Brinker Eisenwerk paint scheme, https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235118734-colour-of-late-war-bf-109-main-gear-legs/page/2/#elControls_4570642_menu the ref pic https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/EJGr-West/pages/Messerschmitt-Bf-109G6-Erganzungskampfgeschwader-(Y20+I)-force-landed-Germany-Mar-1945-01.html the model looks to catch this well. The ref pic also shows why it was thought to be with JG7 as airfield defence. This was the interpretation in the Monogram Gustav Part 2 monograph photo on page 15, profile page 16 here https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Monogram-Close-up/Messerschmitt-109G-Gustav-Part-2 more Brinker Eiesenwerk rebuilds on this page https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/EJGr-West.html Apologies for the thread drift, hence links rather than pics but perhaps of interest to those curious about Ron's build, the band is dark blue and numbers yellow, from the JaPo book on Bf 109's...of I./EKG(J) which has colour pics showing these colours and more aircraft from the unit, obviously not available when the monograph was done in the early 80's, the JaPo book has a written report on yellow 20, being rebuilt by Flugzuegwerk Graudenz, and the pilot was trying to defect. Pages 92-94 if anyone has the book. HTH

too red. too white/light, not as bad as XF-52. XF-4 which would help 'green' it possibly, being a yellow-green Dark Earth when fresh has a subtle green hued mid brown, it's not red, as in brown being as a run of colours, green-yellow-orange-red as possible hues. the colours balance on the period photo is very good, has the right hues for all the colours as specified by MAP (Ministry of Aircraft Production) Spitfire in England by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr The warbird pic is too light, so the Dark Earth looks milky, and the blue is far too light HTH

Hi Max I'd say aluminium paint. the interior framework and wheel wells were, so it's more likely. the bits of engine bays visible here look to aluminium dope Typhoon engine. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Hawker Typhoon by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr from https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=8270787%40N07&view_all=1&text=typhoon @Etiennedup flickr, these are the Typhoon colour shots production line https://www.mediastorehouse.com/p/767/hawker-typhoon-fighters-built-impressive-numbers-21880796.jpg.webp PS "This photograph shows the workforce working on a “car door” type Typhoon 1B JP387 nearing completion in Gloster’s Hucclecote or Stoke Orchard factory in 1943. It went on to serve with 175 (Fighter) Squadron" this is on Farcebook, so has a dynamic URL, so save it https://www.facebook.com/planehistoria/posts/this-photograph-shows-the-workforce-working-on-a-car-door-type-typhoon-1b-jp387-/437645615442953/ AFAIK, they were. Training films of the Tempest and production line shots shows a mid grey tone, aluminium paint usually photographs as near white in b/w pics. Also, apart from 15, all the Typhoons were built by Gloster, Tempests were built by Hawker. @Chris Thomas can now correct me.... HTH

http://www.ascalecanadian.com/2007/10/rcaf-hawker-hurricanes-part-1.html The trop filter is really odd. They may well have been made in Canada for export use. Possible suggestion is having one fitted for pilot familiarisation as it's a training unit, just a guess BTW. Lack of carb intakes was common on the Mk.IV, in the link it mentions Jon Leake, who 'noticed' this, it actually says this specifically in the manual No carb intake but a sheet of gauze. I corresponded with him briefly, he had a couple of very weird misconceptions which has was certain of. I gave up. Anyway, no idea why this was common in Canada but seems to be the case. As the linked blog page says, lots of misiformation and plain wrong on Canadian Hurricanes, so you will be confused. Built in Canada, and not sent to the FAA "The first Hurricanes produced for the RCAF by CC&F were Hurricane Xs. These were basically Canadian built Hurricane Mk. Is with cut down Battle props without spinners, eight gun wings, and no glare shields. They carried RCAF serials 1351 to 1380. The RCAF also received Sea Hurricanes. Yes, the RCAF got some Sea Hurricanes complete with hooks. They were built by CC&F for the FAA but were diverted to Canada. They were in the BW835 to BW884 serial range. The RCAF Sea Hurricanes were basically a Hurricane Mark I with a hook, a DH spinner with a cut down Battle prop, and an eight gun wing. Early in service they carried the Fleet Air Arm scheme of Extra Dark Sea Grey/Dark Slate Grey over Sky. (A common misconception here is that they didn't have hooks. I can't confirm if they all had hooks or some did and some didn't but this one sure did.) This one is BW850 BV-T of 126 (F) Squ. RCAF. I think what has tripped up many Hurricane researchers is that the RCAF Hurricane Xs and Sea Hurricanes were sent back to CC&F for conversion to Hurricane XII standard, though they retained the eight gun wing." Jim Bates on here is @airjiml2 BTW There are various other unexplained but observed Canadian Hurricane details. @ColonelKrypton you may have found these but for others Cowling https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235104429-canadian-hurricane-mkxii-some-detail-observations-and-questions/ Radiator https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235086563-hurricane-radiators-is-there-a-tropical-or-later-type-on-the-mkii-and-iv-and-is-there-a-different-canadian-inlet-shape/ @Carl V @dogsbody more later if I think of anything HTH...

Lighter fuel, the type made for Zippo type lighters, very very thin, very volatile. I've used on planes, vehicles, figures. I suggest starting with burnt umber oil paint, a dirty grey is very versatile, add a little black and as much white as needed. The LF flashes off so fast it does not have time to damage the varnish. I mean it will flash off in 30 seconds or less. before after from https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235052380-hurricane-airfix-72nd-fabric-wing-mki-oob/#elControls_3296243_menu this is over gloss varnish, but I have used it straight over Vallejo with no problems. see also these, all done with artist oils with LF as solvent. https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235104634-pk-78-m16-half-tracknow-with-an-added-p5002-american-infantry-figure/ https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235072084-132-airfix-paratrooper-officer https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235107668-pk-29-skyhawk/ As with anything new, practice on something else first! HTH