trigger39

A pity Airfix were less than helpful in advising on underwing loading. About 80% of Javelin models I have seen are inaccurate. I'm aware of the choice of artistic licence but after paying a lot of money a modeller should at least have a choice of historical accuracy. No Javelin ever flew as depicted in this model, with missiles on the inner pylons and tanks on the outer. An FAW9R (only forty built) had a tank pylon as inner and a missile pylon as outer - missile pylons could not carry tanks and tank pylons could no carry missiles. In a few instances it was neccessary to carry four tanks, 29 Sqn to Zambia for example. This required a change of the outer pylon to a tank pylon, which had to be reversed after ferrying to enable the aircraft to be armed. No other Javelins except forty FAW9Rs could carry underwing tanks, before conversion to 9R ( R stands for Range, not refuelling), the aircraft with refuelling probes were FAW9(F/R) and were only used by 23 and 64 Sqns. Also, as on many models the fin flash is 1/4" too tall - I believe Airfix intended that the flash should be applied before assembly but who does that? Real Javelin fin flashes were 72" wide and 60" high.

I'm told by my wife that I rain on peoples' parades, but many are interested in accuracy rather than artistic licence. A superb job like this deserves accuracy so XH839 was not an FAW9R and could not carry underwing tanks. The FAW9R wearing the CO's MHM was XH872, one of the nine that took part in the final flypast (as did XH839 wearing code W). XH 839 had been the COs mount before 60 Sqn inherited 64 Sqns 9Rs in June 1967.

Hi Antti Sorry I missed your post. I am not a modeller just the ultimate Javelin nerd. There is a photo of an aircraft taxying in at the end of the 60 Sqn disbandment in the Michael Napier book "Gloster Javelin an operational history", but it is partly obscured by groundcrew. I was on 60 Sqn at disbandment time and was one of the groundcrew seeing in the Javelins at the end of the flypast, but I couldn't remember the black tanks which were only used for disbandment. If I can help with any Javelin info you can contact me on email [email protected]. (looking back I see you already have the photo I mentioned) Cheers Clive

The missing detail on the early transfer to 60 Sqn was a mystery to me for many years. In early March 1964 XH766, accompanied by XH874, XH876 and XH893 were flight refuelled to Tengah, on loan to 60 Sqn. All four were individually photographed, en route, at Khormaksar, Aden, by a fellow member of the Facebook site "Gloster Javelin Appreciation Society". By the end of the loan spell, XH874 was lost in a starter fire at Kuching, XH766 was transferred to 60 Sqn 10/10/64, replacing XH955/T lost earlier in the year. XH876 and XH893 were returned to 27 MU, not to 64 Sqn, and were later shipped to the Far East. Cheers Clive Kilgour (ultimate Javelin nerd)

I'm always told I rain on peoples parades, but for most with a big interest in accuracy, eleven T3s from XH434 to XH438, XH443 to XH447 plus XM336 had pitot heads on both wings. Clive

One of a few accurate versions of Airfix 1/48 Javelins, just like I worked on in the Far East. Thanks to Airfix, we have had so many 33 sqn Javelins with refuelling probes and/or underwing tanks and 64 Sqn with tanks on the outer pylon and missiles on the inner, plus the usual fin flash as supplied 1/4" too long.

Not only were they sprayed with tropical dope but all Javelins were given wrap-around camouflage. Duncan B and others who have a copy of Roger Lindsay can see the state of the paintwork on XH885 on the front cover and on page 24. This aircraft came from 23 Sqn in UK and without wrap-around on the leading edges and tropical dope the paintwork was stripped in less than a year. Clive

Sorry, I seem to be mixing up two different posts - it is Juanita that is building an 11Sqn Mk 9. My comments on the fin flash are applicable to any 1/48 Airfix Javelin. Once again apologies - it's my age, Clive

Hi Andy Be aware that the Richard Franks book has a serious error (or typo) that seems to have been taken up by Airfix. The fin flash is actually 60" high and 72" wide - not the other way round. Nearly all the completed 1/48 Javelins on this forum have had the fin flash applied straight from the box( not unreasonably) and this has screwed up fin markings. This is more important for your 11Sqn model as their Sqn markings are quite wide. The tall fin flash also exposes too much camouflage in front of the red band, If my maths are correct the flash should measure one and a half inches wide by one and a quarter inches tall. There is a buff aerial on the rudder and the flash should be more or less level with the top of that aerial Clive

The natural metal finish of XH880 was typical of Javelins that were transferred by sea to Singapore in 1966, where this photo was taken. Following the disbandment of 11 Sqn, XH880, XH881 and XH898 would have been prepared for shipping by stripping them of paint. XH898 was rescued at the last minute to become the well-known Leuchars Javelin 'GHB'. The other two were Command reserve in Singapore and would have been resprayed with tropical dope had they been required. With the end of Confrontation many Javelins were scrapped, including XH880 and XH881 which never flew again after leaving 11 Sqn. Clive

Sorry about the confusion on the angles - this confused me until I thought of the Lightning which has a 60degree sweep but if you measure the angle of a Lightning wing the way you did( and me at first) it seems to be 30 degrees. Placing the protractor vertically with the 90 degree line along the fuselage, is the only way you can get 60 degrees, but I'm no engineer. Even if the fin is wrong there is nothing that can be done but if the fin flash is in the correct place and the right height then it will be acceptable. I particularly like your idea of fixing the flash before fitting the fin - if this was intended it would have been nice to get the instruction. If a quarter of an inch is cut from the bottom of the flash it should fit right. The photo of XH887 from your link has poor definition or the reflexion is too bright, all Mk 8 and 9 Javelins had three rows of vortex generators. The inner pylons on a 9R were always tank pylons, if you wanted to carry four tanks then you had to remove the outer missile pylons and fit tank pylons - tank pylons could not carry missiles and missile pylons could not carry tanks. Airfix kindly supplies four tanks and only two tank pylons - so that load option is out. Missiles were never carried on the inner pylons of a 9R and tanks were never carried on a 9F/R even when a probe was fitted. Only Four Squadrons ever flew Javelins with tanks: 23, 29, 60 and 64 and 60 Sqn never flew Javelins with probes. Only 23 and 64 Sqns flew 9F/R with probes and four missiles. Cheers Clive

Hi Chris I initially made the mistake of measuring sweep the way you did but found that you should measure it like wing sweep, with a protractor placed vertically or the sharper sweep shows as a lower number. Concerning XH893, 64Sqn never used refuelling probes after moving to Tengah and normally when based in UK they were only used for ferrying or practice or air-shows. While at Tengah the tanks were only carried for patrols (in Borneo) and weren't used at all after Confrontation ended. Your link to XH887 seems to show a fin sweep similar to the model (Airfix may have used this photo) but the image is badly stretched - noboby ever called a Javelin sleek. If you get the opportunity to look in "Javelin From The Cockpit" there is a superb photo probably taken at the same time (enroute to India, Exercise Shiksha) this shows how the aircraft should look. I have scaled up an accurate 1/72 fin to 1/48 and this measures 56mm from the top of the fin (below leading edge of the tailplane). cheers Clive

One of the best finishes of the Javelin yet - with no weathering, as most Javelins looked. Shame about the problems with the fin flash, something I've been giving a lot of thought to. I don't have a kit to measure as I'm a bit past making detailed models (joined the RAF when Pontius was a navigator) as I worked on the real thing on 64 and 60 Sqns in Singapore. If someone could measure the dimensions of the flash, it would help. The real flash was 72" wide (3 bars x 24") and 60" high - the triangle of camo in front of the red bar was about 2/3 of the bars ( about 16") If my maths is correct then at 1/48th this should be 1.5" wide and 1.25" high. i have reason to believe that the fin problem is a bit worse than just a fin flash. It's hard to tell from photos of models but I believe the fin has too sharp a sweepback. The Javelin fin was swept 45 degrees from vertical and the fins on the models ( and on the kit reviews) seem to be about 55degrees. This would make the fin considerably shorter than it should be and add to the problems of fitting the fin flash. You're lucky you didn't make a 60 Sqn Javelin - you would never fit their markings on this model. Incidentally,you could have made the box-art subject as I have never seen any Javelin with a camo probe and that aircraft had a much more interesting career. cheers Clive

Hi folks Mks 1 to 7 of Squadron aircraft had a port pitot head only, apart from the 11 T3s referred to in an earlier post. Only 46 Squadron Faw1s lacked ventral tanks and vortex generators, 87Squadron FAW1s had both(though probably not as soon as they received them from 46Sq) All FAW5s and 6s were eventually fitted with the ventral cooling air intake which was standard on later marks and a close look at the FAW2 photo referred to by Chris will also show the windscreen wiper,as fitted to FAW2s,5s and 6s. One more difference to look for is the pressure heads just forward of the fin - Mks 1 to 6 had one each side and Mks7 to 9R had two each side. I'm not sure if the inner or outer should be deleted as maybe they repositioned both and as they are so close together it won't matter. I have photos for all the above and most is included in Roger Lindsays' Javelin "bibles" and don't forget only FAW1s lacked the all-flying tail. cheers Clive

Hi Duncan No,sorry it never had an ISBN it was a private printing, only available from his home address. The Javelin 1-6 was available back in 1975 and the 7-9R a couple of years later. It's a pity because there is much to help modellers and those, like me that served on these aircraft (only as groundcrew) and especially in Singapore. Clive