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Monty Python

RFC colour help needed

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Looking for help regarding PC10 and clear doped linen. Best matches for Tamiya?

 

TIA

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2 hours ago, Monty Python said:

Looking for help regarding PC10 and clear doped linen. Best matches for Tamiya?

 

TIA

XF-62 is close enough if you use Tamiya; the colour is fairly well known to be an olive drab that varied a little towards a browner or a little towards a greener shade.  Keep it at least a slightly shiny satin; acetate dopes were unrelentingly glossy until very old and they scarcely lasted that long

 

Shane

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This is what Wingnut Wings recommend in their new Camel kits...

 

n7fkJs.png

 

Not tried it myself so I do not know what the colours look like but if it's good enough for WNW it should be fine!

 

Hope it helps.

 

P

Edited by PDH

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Tried the WNW colour call out on their Camel Br.1 and to my eyes it look as though there is hardly any green tint at all. 

 

Intending on doing the Camel of a local ace (17 victories). His name was Edwin Swales who was born, lived and died about 5 miles from where I live. He kept a pice of fabric of one of his a/c and this was definitely green in colour.

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If you have seen a piece of the original fabric then, if I were you, I would try and get as close to what you remember it being as possible.

PC10 isn't actually green as such. It is a mixture of yellow ochre (a pale yellowish brown) and carbon black (with small amounts of darkish blue in the mix according to the official recipe but probably this wasn't used in the field and, given the amounts, would have had little effect on the final colour) which gives what appears, to the eye, to be an olive green colour although there is technically no green in the mix. I think that, as this was mixed in the field, it probably varied quite a lot from a dark brownish colour to a khaki depending on how much of the required pigments were available at the time.

 

I'm not a tamiya user but, looking at their colour chart I would say that their XF-59 Desert yellow is a reasonable match to Yellow ochre and so this, with tiny amounts of black added and mixed until suitable colour is achieved should do the trick. Alternatively you could use the XF-62 with half as much, or less, of the XF-10 which should give a much greener result.

 

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PC-10 is massively controversial... We know the pigments but there's a lot of variation in what you could mix from the recipe due variations in the natural pigments and variations in the dope. I've been investigating the dope and over a relatively short time it yellows quite a bit. that would push the color more toward green. Over time everything gets more greenish due to the dope. A good example of this is a sample of the fabric from Richtofen's triplane where some of the paint and dope had flaked off. Underneath the red, was a light blue. where there was dope over the light blue, it was distinctly more turquoise. I've not seen it 'in real' but the color shift is significant. Apparently the crazing of the dope caused the fading that you see in a lot of photos and it happened in a relatively short time (compared to say, modern paints left in the sun). 

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So basically PC10 is a case of I'll do it as I think what's right and you prove me wrong 

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22 minutes ago, Monty Python said:

So basically PC10 is a case of I'll do it as I think what's right and you prove me wrong 

Yup, as long as you're in the dark green range you're fine.

I have xtracolor PC10 and its not too far from Humbrol 116

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That's sounds about right @Monty Python There is no real way to figure out what the original colour was other than a greenish brown (Olive) and could be a whole range from light(ish) to dark. Remember as well that, if you are using a gloss varnish over the top what appears quite light at first will darken significantly once the varnish is on as the matt reflects more light and so appears brighter.

 

I don't think that yellowing of the dope would make it appear more green, rather it would make it appear more brown. There are some comments from pilots of the time that describe the colour of some machines as being more dark brown than green and this could be an effect of the dope yellowing. Dope yellowing over blue would gradually turn green as blue + yellow = green but over olive it would give brown.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Monty Python said:

So basically PC10 is a case of I'll do it as I think what's right and you prove me wrong 

the recipe is pretty well known, but with pigments like a mined, natural yellow oxide there's likely to be enough variation to justify whatever you think it should be. 

that said, some companies offer their take on PC10, and claim to have done their homework. 

Mr paint: http://mrpaint.sk/farby/WWI

 

and Drooling Bulldog: http://www.droolingbulldog.com/mix/

 

i haven't decided my approach to PC-10 yet. i may use one of those or i may mix my own according to the formula. 

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