David Womby Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I am not an expert on Spitfires but I am thinking this airframe would have had an 'E' wing. Is that correct? Thanks. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 According to the Morgan/Shacklady Spitfire History, RN131 was part of the 10th order for 406 XIV's, and was part of the production block serialled RN113-160, I think the first XIV's with the 'e' wing were in late RM7xx serial block range, so your subject should be an XIVe. According to its history, it began with No. 9 MU on 5/1/45 and ended up being damaged in a landing accident on 3/8/47 at Kisarazu, Japan, and was struck off charge on 20/10/47 I did find an XIV a few serial numbers earlier to your subject, but impossible to tell from the angle if it has a 'c' or 'e' wing. Somebody who knows should be along shortly. Mike https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/spitfire2/spitfire-mk-xiv-rn119/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 Thanks, Mike. You can see RN131 in this pic just behind RN135. RN131 and RN135 I am pretty sure that's an E wing, isn't it? David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Yes, it is an 'e', based on both the photograph and when it was built. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 2 hours ago, gingerbob said: Yes, it is an 'e', based on both the photograph and when it was built. Thank you! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEMPESTMK5 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Good afternoon From what I found out during my research on the subject, only the first 50 aircraft built from serial RB 140 to 189 were equipped with 'c' type wings when they left the factory and some may have receive 'e' type wings during their operational career.. Best Regards Patrice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 13 hours ago, David Womby said: I am pretty sure that's an E wing, isn't it? Pretty sure, but it would be better if the inboard bucket for the .50cal MG was visible- that would clinch the ID. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 2 hours ago, TEMPESTMK5 said: only the first 50 aircraft built from serial RB 140 to 189 were equipped with 'c' type wings when they left the factory Is that just correct for RB-serialled XIV's? There is an oft photographed XIVc serialled RM619 AP-D I built a model of a long time ago using the Frog kit, that was clearly a 'c' wing Spit. Doesn't affect the model that David is building, though. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steh2o Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, 72modeler said: Pretty sure, but it would be better if the inboard bucket for the .50cal MG was visible- that would clinch the ID. Mike Actually, what nails the matter is the gun cover blister typical of the E-wing. Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, 72modeler said: Is that just correct for RB-serialled XIV's? There is an oft photographed XIVc serialled RM619 AP-D I built a model of a long time ago using the Frog kit, that was clearly a 'c' wing Spit. Doesn't affect the model that David is building, though. Mike Many of the photos of "RM619 AP-D" are of Rolls-Royce's "warbird" painted that way, rather than of the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steh2o Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I would say e-wing, due to the shape and height of the blister but it's difficult to say for certain. Interestingly, RM-619 AP-D seems to have nose art in front of the windscreen.... what art is difficult to say, perhaps someone has an high-res copy of this photograph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: Many of the photos of "RM619 AP-D" are of Rolls-Royce's "warbird" painted that way, rather than of the original. Yep, I was aware of that, Graham, but I was referring to the famous period photo of her; that serial also seems to fit the block in the Shacklady book as being fitted with a 'c' wing from the factory, but as you and others have said, some of them had that wing swapped out for an 'e' wing at some point. I always liked -619 as she was a 'c' wing XIV and had the invasion stripes on the lower fuselage. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 50 minutes ago, steh2o said: I would say e-wing, due to the shape and height of the blister but it's difficult to say for certain. Interestingly, RM-619 AP-D seems to have nose art in front of the windscreen.... what art is difficult to say, perhaps someone has an high-res copy of this photograph? @Graham Boak and @steh2o, My curiosity was piqued, and I found some discussion on RM619- see the linked article. I guess this means that she might have been an XIVe after all, and not an XIVc, as I had always thought and had read. I also found text and color profiles of some XIVc's that served with No. 322 (Dutch) Squadron, with RM616 being only three numbers earlier than 619, which also listed examples in the same RM6xx block as RM619. ( RM616, 622, 648, 655, 671, 672, 676, 678) Guess maybe if I want to do a confirmed XIVc, it might have to be one of them? I am sooo confused! Mike http://www.rafcommands.com/archive/05663.php https://kw.jonkerweb.net/images/S/Supermarine_Spitfire_MkXIV-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steh2o Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Hello Mike, I suppose that you have to choose between NH- or RB-serialled airframes. Sadly there is scarce info and photographs about the wartime Mk. XIVs... I like the -c wing with transparent covers on the outer cannon fairings! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 Just a bit more on RN131. According to here: https://www.avialogs.com/spitfire-and-seafire-registry/item/102120-rn131 "........... 17S Overshot landing into canal and overturned Kisarazu Japan CE 3-8-47 SOC 30-10-47". Although this page: https://blandfordschoolsmemorial.co.uk/flying-officer-david-alexander-17-sqn-raf/ refers to the death of F/O Alexander of 17 Sqdn in RN128 the photos on the page look like RN131's accident. Looking at the pics, I can see no trace of fire and I can see the canal and she is overturned whereas Alexander bailed out due to engine fire according to https://www.avialogs.com/spitfire-and-seafire-registry/item/102117-rn128 which states "..............17S eng fire aircraft abandoned crashed nr Hiroshima 19-9-47 pilot killed" I am pretty sure these pics must be of RN131's crash. She has a letter 'M' under the nose and is carrying what look like bomb racks. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, David Womby said: Just a bit more on RN131. David, if those photos you posted are indeed of RN131, then it is very clear that it had the 'e' wing, as you can see the buckets inboard of the 20mm Hispanos that covered the .50 cal Brownings. That makes your project that much easier! That's a well-traveled XIV- from England to India to Japan. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastterry Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Just to add a bit more info. RN135 was Ginger Lacey's plane coded YB-A in an earlier life. In the photo with RN131 she has later type A roundels, no fuselage band and no kill markings so must have had a repaint along with the rest in the lineup. RN131 & RN135 were definitely XIVEs from the photos I have of YB-A.. TRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steh2o Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 An interesting note: a visit to belgian-wings.be reveals that all of the belgian Mk.XIV were e-winged but many of them are high-back in the serial range RB- and NH- We know that early F.XIV in that range had -c wings (notably RB150, RB156, RB159, RB167, RB188, NH700...). Now RB161 being just two s/n after DW+D and six before RB167 was most probably built with c-wing Here RB161 shows an e-wing configuration of the cannons and no gunports visible; moreover it has the reinforcement blister over the wheel well. So it is most probable that the belgian Spitfire Mk XIVs were all uniformed to this late E-wing configuration. So XIVc became XIVe at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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