David Womby Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 This is De Havilland 103 Hornet F1 PX252 of 65 Squadron flown by Squadron Leader Charlton "Wag" Haw in, it seems, 1946/47. She only wore these bold squadron markings briefly before, so the story goes, the markings were removed on the order of AOC 12 Group. This is the only known photo of her in these markings. It's from a late 1940s magazine and credit for this old photo goes to A.Fraser via Chris Thomas.Here is my representation of her using the old Frog Hornet F3 kit. The shape of the kit is pretty good except for thick wings and fin, the fin chord is a bit narrow at the top and it has square wing leading edges but there's very little detail.The changes to backdate the kit to an F1 that were removal of the fin fillet, reducing the span of the tailplanes and shortening the tailcone a tiny bit. Other changes I made: a bit of detail behind the seat to fill the big void, drilled out the cannon ports, a sliver of plastic card to make the reinforcing band round the fuselage, scribed in the flaps, added some fins in the radiator openings and also added some plastic card radiator exhaust flaps under the wings. The Frog canopy looks pretty bad - too narrow and totally the wrong profile. I moulded a replacement using a plug mould I made of the badly yellowed vac canopy in a Skybirds 86 Sea Hornet. The decals are from the Special Hobby kit and were sent to me a few years back by a fellow modeller whose name escapes me but to whom I am very grateful. I didn't weather it as it didn't wear this scheme for long and, I presume that, the CO's mount would have been kept pretty clean.The stand is the Frog Skybase that they put in kits in the mid-70s or so. If anybody has any to spare, I'd love to buy them from you, please.David 14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornado 01 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 David it does look very nice. If only we still had a Hornet or Sea Hornet around in a museum here. I think someone has plans to build a replica from bits collected around the UK. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vh-bob Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 David She's a beauty, that's my sort of model. Despite it's minor faults, definitely a Hornet and I'll bet easier to build than the Special Hobby version. Although not a fan of stands, I have to admit she looks good. I think that my problem is the way some full size museums ( I know space is a problem) hang them from the ceiling or pose them in silly attitudes, eg the Canberra War Museum's Mosquito or Cosford's Lightning. I hope you find a supply of stands it is sad to think how many must have been thrown away. Trev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-32 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Hello all, First of all, what a nice model. I have a soft spot for these Frog/Novo kits, and although not great regarding accuracy they are a very nostalgic build. I'm really pleased you have posted this "photo" depicting PX252 as it has spurred me putting this collection of evidence together, that may support others in the future. This very colourful red chevron marked Hornet F.1 must represent the most modelled scheme. I am however suspicious that if it did actually make it onto an airframe, then there are likely to be differences to that actually shown in the article's image. I have called this a "photo" above, as I believe it is an artists impression, that has used a stock image of PX217 piloted by Pat Fillingham as the basis, and subsequently re-touched. I have included the original article and photo for comparison. If you digitally overlay the two, it fits perfectly. While it is compelling that the chevrons were painted onto PX252, the mix of type B fin flash, and type D roundels seems unlikely. I believe the re-touched photo should actually show type C1 roundels/fin flash as the need to re-paint with the type D roundels had not yet been instigated. Besides, the image of PX252 (bottom left) shows the C1 roundel marked airframe with the YT-H codes and red spinners before it was apparently re-painted. I think it unlikely, the wing roundels and fin flash would have been re-painted to differing standards? PX252 was a Hornet F.1 delivered to 65 Squadron in medium sea grey with PRU blue undersides, and type B roundels. What I know, is that at some point in 1946-47 it was re-painted overall silver/aluminium, and received type C1 roundels. As this article states, post war three squadrons were intending on putting the pre-war colourful markings onto their new mounts. The only known photo's show two different 19 Squadron Hornet F.1's with differing versions of the blue/white checkers. Also, 64 Sqn is noted here as bringing back its blue/red lattice onto one. However, neither the 64 or 65 Squadron aircraft have photo's to prove or disprove they were ever painted as such. Well I hope this is of some interest, p.s. I'm the person re-building the Hornet fuselage in the UK. Edited May 31, 2016 by David A Collins 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 That's compelling, David. I wish I'd seen your insight before I decalled it. Good luck rebuilding a 1:1 scale example of this gorgeous thoroughbred. David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 That's compelling, David. I wish I'd seen your insight before I decalled it. Good luck rebuilding a 1:1 scale example of this gorgeous thoroughbred. David Hi David, I hope it doesn't come across that I was picking on your model. It's just seeing you have used the primary source photo as a reference, I wanted to highlight its potential floors for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi David, I hope it doesn't come across that I was picking on your model. It's just seeing you have used the primary source photo as a reference, I wanted to highlight its potential floors for others. David, no worries on that score. I didn't take it that way at all. I'll leave the Hornet as it is for now but will probably put C Type roundels and fin flash and red spinners on it one day to try to get as close to how she may have looked as I can. Or I may redo it as another airframe instead. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I think it's most likely to have been painted with C type roundels, but there are no photos sadly, just compelling evidence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Nice result! - I have to dig our deeper out about Hornet history (as well as Tempest Mk II and Vampire) - how many of them were flying before VJ day... - since basicly I restricted my collection to this date. But Hornet is a beautiful machine - so it is temptating me to build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) Hi, Here's another photo I have depicting Hornet F1, PX252 of 65 Squadron. This is dated May 1947 on the back, so at least we have a good date for when this aircraft was painted all-over silver. Its markings are consistent with the image I included in my initial post. The spinners are red, and Squadron Leader Haw's pennant markings are visible either side of the nose. Serials are visible under the wings, as well as hard points for bombs. Alas, the famed red chevrons are not visible in this view..... Edited June 2, 2016 by David A Collins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I think it's most likely to have been painted with C type roundels, but there are no photos sadly, just compelling evidence! I don't know if this was mentioned before but in the Aeromodeller 'photo' the D type roundels on the wings look to be out of proportion too. More akin to pre-war roundels. Fantastic to hear you are restoring/rebuilding a Hornet fuselage. The only piece of this wonderful aircraft I have ever seen is the remains of the rear fuselage of a Sea Hornet at the DeHavilland Museum. Is this the project you are working on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I don't know if this was mentioned before but in the Aeromodeller 'photo' the D type roundels on the wings look to be out of proportion too. More akin to pre-war roundels. Fantastic to hear you are restoring/rebuilding a Hornet fuselage. The only piece of this wonderful aircraft I have ever seen is the remains of the rear fuselage of a Sea Hornet at the DeHavilland Museum. Is this the project you are working on? Hi Meatbox8, Yes, you are correct about the D-type roundels appearing out of proportion. This also supports my theory its a re-touched image of another aircraft. My project to reconstruct/restore a Hornet fuselage began in 1999. It does not include the rear fuselage from the DH Museum. To date, I have made from original drawings the forward fuselage and filled it with original parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Hi Meatbox8, Yes, you are correct about the D-type roundels appearing out of proportion. This also supports my theory its a re-touched image of another aircraft. My project to reconstruct/restore a Hornet fuselage began in 1999. It does not include the rear fuselage from the DH Museum. To date, I have made from original drawings the forward fuselage and filled it with original parts. Fantastic. I hope you will post some pics sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Hi Meatbox, I will find a place within Britmodeller to post some images, rather than hi-jack David Womby's thread any further! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Hi Meatbox, I will find a place within Britmodeller to post some images, rather than hi-jack David Womby's thread any further! Absolutely. Look forward to seeing them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 So, as far as I can find out with the advice and help above, all that exists on this aircraft carrying the chevrons is the text in this article from Aeromodeller magazine Dec 1947 but the photo is actually an airbrushed interpretation of the markings. If you look closely, the roundels do look a bit 'off' and it would have been really odd to have D Type roundels but left a B Type fin flash.I have seen three pictures of her (without the chevrons). The aircraft appears to have carried C Type roundels before and after her interlude wearing chevrons, so the probability is that she wore C Type roundels with the chevrons. Two show her with red spinners and one shows her with silver spinners. However, since the Aeromodeller text doesn't mention the spinners being red, I am opting to leave them silver.So here's my interpretation of what she probably looked like.Now that I've changed her to C Type roundels, I confidently expect somebody to produce a clear unadulterated photo showing her with chevrons and D Type roundels David 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Nice David, those C type roundels work for me OK. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Hi David, Yes, that's more like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Thank you, gentlemen. Although it seems we'll never know for sure how she looked, I am happy with my interpretation. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Thank you, gentlemen. Although it seems we'll never know for sure how she looked, I am happy with my interpretation. David Hi David, Your model's markings are now consistent with the other specially painted aircraft of 19 Sqn, at the same time that photo's exist for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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