Weird space story.

[Andrew Jones]

I can't understand how it's illegal to own moondust if it was aquired legitimately , if the Americans gave it away as a gift to other nations or parties then it's theirs to use or dispose of as they wish. If i give something as a gift to someone else ,I can't demand it back if I'm not happy how they use it.

Andrew

[Paul Bradley]

Andrew, to quote Gordon:

The Americans don't claim to own the Moon in the sense of a piece of land but the rocks and stuff that they brought back do belong to the US Government. Small samples were presented to other nations as gifts on the understanding they weren't sold to private collectors. So if this bloke in the Borders has some moondust then whoever he got it from has broken the law. He himself isn't guilty of anything, any more than somebody who buys a stolen car without knowing it.

[Andrew Jones]

The Americans don't claim to own the Moon in the sense of a piece of land but the rocks and stuff that they brought back do belong to the US Government. Small samples were presented to other nations as gifts on the understanding they weren't sold to private collectors. So if this bloke in the Borders has some moondust then whoever he got it from has broken the law.

If the samples were given as gifts, then the nations receiving those gifts are surely free to do as they like with them.

Which law has been broken ?, US law ? , International law ?.

Very unlikely I would say that any case would stand up in a Court of law , unless it's proven that the samples have been stolen and then the crime would be against the legal owner and not the US Goverment, they having given the moondust away.

Andrew

[GordonD]

If the samples were given as gifts, then the nations receiving those gifts are surely free to do as they like with them.

Andrew

Not at all - it isn't a gift in the sense of a birthday present, it's a diplomatic thing. (My fault for using the word 'gifts'.)

The sample wouldn't just be handed over, there would be accompanying paperwork which would include the clause preventing the receiving government from selling it.

[SleeperService]

You mean Al Bean - he is now a professional painter specialising in space subjects (try saying that with a mouthful of Ritz crackers!)

http://www.alanbeangallery.com/

Ah! Yes.... You're quite correct. I've even got a print of his hanging in the hallway. Whoops. Thanks for the correction.

[JMChladek]

During the early recovery of Apollo craft, a lot of small bits got nicked here and there as people would pull remaining scraps mylar coatings off of Apollo capsules after reentry, or take a screw off here or there. There were even some enterprising individuals that would take clear tape to get a few precious specs of lunar dust off of a suit or a control panel (and THOSE suits got dirty!). I don't believe NASA really started trying to put a stop to it until the infamous Apollo 15 postal cover incident blew things way out of proportion, but in some cases it still continued, such as after a capsule went on display in a museum.

So yes, it is possible to acquire and own a few grains of lunar soil. Moon rocks though... different story. Even the flight used lunar suits that the Smithsonian has still have bits of lunar soil embedded in them.

[Eric Mc]

In UK law, it CAN be illegal to receive stolen goods. It is up to the authorities to decide whether the act of receiving a stolen item was part of the conspiracy to commit a crime.

It could be argued that if someone buys some lunar samples which the seller is claiming are genuine Apollo samples, then the buyer should be well aware that the samples MUST be being sold illegally and therefore COULD be prosecuted.

On the other hand, I don't see the UK police having this issue as a major priority.

Lots of lunar samples given to foreign countries have gone missing. Ireland's, for example disappeared in the 1980s.

[GordonD]

Lots of lunar samples given to foreign countries have gone missing. Ireland's, for example disappeared in the 1980s.

Oh, they know where it is - it's on a rubbish dump in North Dublin!

***

(From the BBC news website:)

Dr Ian Elliott worked at the Dunsink Observatory in Dublin when it was destroyed by fire on 3 October 1977.

I heard about the fire on the morning news. I can tell you, that was a bit of a shock.

My main concern was with the disruption to the work of the observatory. It was only afterwards that we realised that the bit of Apollo 11 Moon rock could not be found.

It was gathered up with all of the other debris and dumped in the municipal dump which was conveniently just across the road.

It is probably the only municipal dump in the world that has got a bit of Moon rock.

If we'd had any perception of the rock's value, perhaps all of the debris would have been sifted by archaeologists and it might have been found.

I am amazed that anyone puts a value of $5m on it, though there are a lot of mad people with money around so they might just pay that.

It is a very big dump, I am afraid. It is worse than a needle in a haystack - you would never find it.

***

At the risk of perpetuating a national stereotype, it could only happen in Ireland!