Tiger Ausf.E

AndyM, I did not say it was not a repaint, I simply stated that it was captured in Tunisia in 1943. When i said, "However the one here was captured in Tunisia in 1943 and you can that the camo is still there. I hope this gives you a bit more info." I was implying that the red/brown and panzer grey had been applied, so the whole concept of the camo is still around today. To think the original camo would look that good after so long would just be ludicrous in the extreme! If I have to watch myself and safeguard everything I say for fear of point scoring sessions then that is pretty sad. This has happened on other posts, where I have simply put up pics of something and got a couple of snidey remarks and even a couple of PM's that were rather arragant. Even one saying that The pictures of the Tiger exausts had been touched up by myself in a photoshop type way!!!!!!! However it is a good indication of what I stated in my post about environmental effects on PG, look at picture 3 and you will see that it looks like there are 2 shades of PG this is due to the dust, and you can see this, but from further back you would think it 2 different shades of grey.

Hi Andy, the PZKPFW tank you see in the pics was captured in Tunisia in 1943.

Excellent! I will have to decide what to build now! Does it have to be on a dio?

Hi Jack. Thanks for the positive reply. I have put on a set of pics with the panzer grey, brown camo on here and will repost them on here for reference. The Panzer grey/ brown camoflauge was not widely applied to vehicles. However even with the factory camo you would get variations on a theme as different sprayers, different techniques, this is then confounded further by environmental variations, for example, Southern Russia has a different climate to Northern Russia. Southern Russia has a hotter climate and Northern Russia has a colder almost artic environment. Obviously this weathers the paint differently and would produce a different shade. Not to mention the colour of the dust/mud that would also affect the shade of panzer grey. For example, look at the colour of Panzers in france as to those in Northern Russia, or even southern Russia. Then, as you said. Field workshops repainting vehicles would have a shade different to that at the factory. In regards to repainting the vehicles, I do not think that with the ever increasing demands of the eastern front the germans would have the luxury of being able to recall vehicles to repaint them or get rid of old camoflague then put them back in the field, especially if it is fully useable and running. (read a book called "War without Garlands" You will be amazed at how far the germans got with what they had!) Even in July 1941, they would not have had the luxury of a chance to rehaul the fleet not with Grece, Th ebalkans etc... kicking off. I think a process of natural elimination would have thinned out the ranks of the red brown/ panzer grey camo. However the one here was captured in Tunisia in 1943 and you can that the camo is still there. I hope this gives you a bit more info. Pzkpfw II in Tunisia 1942/3:

Hi Fingers, I put these up elsewhere on the site, but you may have missed them. These pictures show the actual exausts of a Tiger that is up and running. You can see how the paint and metal is being affected by the heat. I hope you find these helpful.

I put this on another Web site, but thought it may help on here aswell: I have been trying to look into ways of improving my models lately and one of the ways I thought would help would be in the painting. So if anyone can add to this please feel free to do so, after all, we can only improve! Obviously how you paint your model really decides whether it will live or die, realism is only a paint colour away. For example, you have King Tiger painted fararri red and title it "Russian front 1945" it is not going to matter one bit if you have all the tiny details correct, the model will be judged by the colour of the paint. This got me to thinking about the paints issued by the various hobby suppliers themselves. If you look at your painting instructions on model kits you will always see that they recommend various colours from various manufacturers. Why is this? O.k, So we understand that Tamiya would recommend Tamiya paints, why would Revell recommend Humbrol? Or Dragon recommend Gunze Sangyo? Puzzling one at that! Another point is this; where do the companies get their interpretation of colours from? A startling fact is that many get their ideas from Museums and from photographs, matching up the colour from Film or photos. Now anyone who knows anything will know that you cannot use a photograph of a tank to justify you saying that this is the real colour or what colour was what in Black and white films or photos. It seems that the only correct way to interpret the colours is to read the "Heer memorandum" that gives orders in regards to colours that should be used and when! But then again, this does not say what shade RAL 8017 was! What makes it more confusing is that Tamiya once visited the Patton museum in America and got permision to take of the overspray the museum staff had put on to an SDKFZ 251. They found that the Dunkelgelb was 5 different shades! So Tamiya based their XF60 (Dark Yellow) on the mid shade. So theoretically the Tamiya shade of Dunkelgelb should be the most valid? But it gets worse! Historically RAL 6003 (OliveGrun) Ral 8017 (Braune) and RAL 8002 (Signalbraune) were supplied in 5 kilo tins in paste concentrate for dilution by tank crews.This could be acheived with water, Oil , Petrol or water, indeed in one case urine! The final intensity of colour depended on the dilution, so RAL 6003 (olivegrun) could appear almost black if undiluted and pea green if diluted too much. Another factor to consider aswell is that many paints are based on 1/1 scale colours, ie, the real thing. Many modellers will dilute the colour with as much as 25% whit in order to lighten the colour and make it more scale effective. Most German AFV's were fitted with compressors so that spray guns could be used to paint the vehicle. So most German vehicles were Spray painted in the field. (Though the Ambush scheme was applied by hand.) Although all model companies have advised what colour paints should be used, and whos to use only two companies have researched the subject thouroughly and from the right source. These Companies are Gunze Sangyo from Japan and also Hannants from England. In May 1991 both pooled resources and approached the RAL Deutches Institut Fur Gutesicherund Und Kennzeichung e.V. (loosely translated "The German institute of Quality control and Identification) It was founded in 1925 and and is funded by the German chemical industry. This is the equivalent of the British Standards or the U.S Federal Color Standards. Not only did Hannants ad Gunze receive comprehensive information on the chronological introduction and deletion of second world war colours but were also given authentic paint chips. From these Chips Hannants produced the full 10 shades. Gunze a few less. Funnily enough "Denkelgelb" the most important colour 1943 onwards does not have an RAL number! The paint chip supplied by RAL is often claimed to be too dark or too olive. So, if you are interested in painting your wagon the correct shades for an added air of authenticity here are the colours and Hannants codes in brackets) for you: RAL 7016 Anthrazitgrau (X802) Used by Luftwaffe ground forces (Herman Goerring division) RAL 7008 Khakibruan (X804) Used by Afrikacorp and in crete 1941. No Official RAL description of colour. Used in conjunction with RAL 8000 Ral 7027 (x809) Used by Afrikacorp after 1941. Again no official RAL description of colour. used in conjunction with RAL8020. RAL 6003 Olivgrun (X806) Used in conjunction with RAL 8017 and RAL Dunkelgelb. RAL 8002 Signalbraun (X801) used in conjunction with RAL 7021 especially before 1939. RAL 8000 Grunbraun (X803) Used by Afrikacorpand in crete 1941. No official RAL Description of colour used in conjunction with RAL7027 RAL 8020 (X808) used by Afrikacorp after 1941. No official description of colour used in conjunction with RAL 7027 Dunkelgelb (X805) used as standard colour from Feb 1943. No official RAL number, used in conjunction with RAL 6003 and RAL 8017 RAL 8017 Braune (X807) Used in conjunction with RAL 6003 and Dunkelgelb. In regards to the panzer grey, this would be exactly the same, ie: the level of dilution would dictate the colour of the final finish. You can try this at home, get some paint paste and mix it with a bit of oil (early in the war Germans would use waste oil to dilute paint, or petrol and this would give a durable finish that did not fade in the rain. However later in the war they used water more and this led to finishes that could fade, chip or wear away........Hence why white wash is always grubby!) from a car or such, then mix it with water. You will soon notice how you get a different shade of Panzer grey, depending on 1: what you use to dilute, 2 how much of it yoy used and 3 how thickly it was applied over the vehicle. I hope this helps.

This is coming along Nicely Will and it is good to see you working on it, I may end up copying your techniques as I am certainly gaining inspiration from them and from the results. Excellent work.

Are you doing the Tunisian one? That would be good!

Here is a good pic:

Well here she is, up and running. Better pics to follow but the metal gun barrel and fruil tracks do give it a decent appearance.

Fantastic stuff! You are going to be a genius! Keep it up!

Pzkpfw II in Tunisia 1942/3:

Hello guys, Thank you very much for your compliments, really appreciated! I will try the "Klear" technique Graeme, thank you for that. The snow is simply from woodland scenics. I used very watered down PVA glue, brushed onto the sherman, I then sprinkled it on and left to dry. I put on about 3 coats like that. Thanks for your compliments, you really have encouraged me.

Hi guys, is anyone eligable for this or do you have to be a member for some time? I would like to enter if that is O.K?

I love this! Excellent weathering on that. The tracks are brilliant, did you use fruils?