Gondor44 Posted November 18, 2024 Posted November 18, 2024 So the clue is in the title. What if the Daring class Destroyers were modernised in the 1960's? What I am planning on doing is based on this Shipbucket drawing I am using the 1961 Airfix kit which means it's slightly younger than me I have ordered a Starling Models HMS Devonshire upgrade set to provide a lot of the necessary parts that will be replaced. I also have some etched brass from Atlantic Models for a few other items and there will be some scratch-building as well. The idea being that I have about eleven months to finish this so I can take it to Telford, well there's nothing like a target to aim for, if it's realistic or not we shall see Later: Because the back end is based on the Leander fit I was thinking of using the rear two-thirds of a Leander deck on top of the rear of the Daring. But as I am going to be scratch-building most of the superstructure I may as well scratch the Limbo well, just as I am doing in my Leander builds. I shall use one of my as-yet unbuilt Leanders as a guide for the scratch building. One question I will have to think about now rather than later is the viewing windows for the VDS which are in the room in the Port Rear of the ship, with one window to aft and another looking back up towards the winch for the VDS. The question is do I do the same for this build or move the windows to Starboard? Gondor 8
ArnoldAmbrose Posted November 19, 2024 Posted November 19, 2024 5 hours ago, Gondor44 said: The question is do I do the same for this build or move the windows to Starboard? G'day Gondor, as this will be a what-if neither will be incorrect, but is there any reason to move the windows? And please excuse my ignorance, but what's the VDS? This will be an interesting project, I enjoy doing and watching what-ifs. Regards, Jeff.
Gondor44 Posted November 19, 2024 Author Posted November 19, 2024 5 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said: G'day Gondor, as this will be a what-if neither will be incorrect, but is there any reason to move the windows? And please excuse my ignorance, but what's the VDS? This will be an interesting project, I enjoy doing and watching what-ifs. Regards, Jeff. The VDS is a Variable Depth Sonar. Gondor 1
Gondor44 Posted November 23, 2024 Author Posted November 23, 2024 Having caught up on posts from Britmodeller from the previous week it's time to turn to my current build. I started by cutting back the curved area between the two deck levels The idea is that the slight step will give the end of the extended rear deck something to glue onto, at least at one end. My current thought is to use thin plastic card on the vertical inside of the lip that the existing deck sits on to help get the angle of the new extended upper hull correct. This may need revision as I try it, but I believe the basic idea is sound, even if what happens is different in detail. I have cut a couple of strips of plastic card, 0.020" I think, for the extended hull and a wider strip for the deck. The length was way too long, the removed sections will be used for internal walls around the Limbo and Well decks and sections of superstructure. Talking of which, I have filled in the sink mark where the Limbo is to go and the remains of the hole what was in the deck where the VDS well is. Now I wait until the filler is dry so I can sand that back and start working on the extended hull sides. I am thinking of drilling out the holes the anchor chains go through, that would also mean replacing the molded-in chain with etch chain from the Atlantic Models set. Gondor 3
ArnoldAmbrose Posted November 23, 2024 Posted November 23, 2024 43 minutes ago, Gondor44 said: The idea is that the slight step will give the end of the extended rear deck something to glue onto, at least at one end. G'day Gondor, it seems that what you are doing in raising the hull sides is very similar to what I did with an Airfix Suffolk kit a few years ago, building up the quarterdeck. I did two vertical 'layers'. I think I glued an inner layer first that would overlap the join of the original hull to my raised extension. I think it's 0.5mm thick, to make it easy to follow the curve of the hull. It also gives a surface for the outer layer something to glue to. Then the outer was glued, and is also 0.5mm (0.020") thick if I recall, to match the thickness of the hull at the top. HTH. Good luck with it. Regards, Jeff. 4
Gondor44 Posted November 24, 2024 Author Posted November 24, 2024 I am trying to make progress at the weekends due to life, in general, making it difficult to get much modelling done on weekdays. So, what did I do today? I made and fitted some 0.010 plastic card strips to act as backing for the hull extension. To make sure that I can still fit and remove the supplied deck, I filed a couple of recesses where the strips were so that it could fit around them. I had also marked the centre line to help with positioning of items later. Yesterday I also managed to shoot some primer over the Starling Models HMS Devonshire upgrade set. It's a pity that this is not a Wasp, perhaps I can use it when I update HMS Tiger? Lastly for today, here is an overall shot of the deck fitted with the backing strips in place. I am thinking of working on the holes for the bow anchor chain during the week, that's something that I can do a little be here or there as time allows me. Perhaps I can look out some plastic tube or maybe even use some brass tube instead. Gondor 8
Gondor44 Posted December 4, 2024 Author Posted December 4, 2024 I managed to get some work done on the Daring today. Holes were drilled out for the anchors, they need more work as I am going to line them with some brass tube. After that I glued the rear hull side extensions into place followed by the kit's deck being fitted in place. There are a few gaps and I think the top may need trimming a little but that's ok, I can live with that. I also started work on the forward superstructure. As you can see, it's a bit rough and ready but that's not a problem as most of the remaining part will be clad in plastic card. Anyway, progress is progress. Gondor 8
Gondor44 Posted December 5, 2024 Author Posted December 5, 2024 I managed to get the brass tube fitted into the main forward anchor holes. It's a bit The ends were trimmed back, here is the weapon of choice, complete with the offcuts They look better after I ran a drill through them. I still need to finish them off, but you get the idea. Is there supposed to be an anchor point right at the prow of the ship, and would that have been kept after a refit in the early 60's? Gondor 5
Our Ned Posted December 6, 2024 Posted December 6, 2024 The ships had a fairlead right at the top of the stem, which was retained throughout their lives (including the ships transferred to ther navies) - see, for example, here. It wasn't intended for the anchor cable, but for towing, berthing wires etc, and was known as the bullring. 1 1
ArnoldAmbrose Posted December 6, 2024 Posted December 6, 2024 G'day @Gondor44, it's interesting that you used brass for the hawse-pipes. Any particular reason? Regards, Jeff.
Gondor44 Posted December 6, 2024 Author Posted December 6, 2024 3 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said: G'day @Gondor44, it's interesting that you used brass for the hawse-pipes. Any particular reason? Regards, Jeff. I used brass tube for a couple of reasons. They are quite thin so more in keeping to scale, they would be quite easy to work and I had some of the size that I judged the pipes to be. Nothing more than that. While on the subject, a couple of questions for the collective mind about the chains etc. @Our Ned has enlightened me with some information about the Bullring, I now have a follow-up question about the routing of any cable using the Bullring. Did the route go onto the upper deck or was the route internal? Another question, but this time about the anchor chains. So from the hawse-pipes, the chains go back along the deck and around a capstan, and then somewhat forward again before disappearing into the deck? Is that right? I am trying to interpret the details on the kit. Talking about that, what is the squaring block on the deck near the chain? Gondor
Our Ned Posted December 6, 2024 Posted December 6, 2024 (edited) For a fuller understanding of a ship's fo'c'sle and ground tackle, see here; although it shows the arrangements on a capital ship, most of the principles apply to the Darings. To answer the specific questions, the bullnose led upwards from the opening on the stem, and the towing hawser or other rope etc would have been led aft from just abaft the jack staff along the foc's'le to one of the capstans (on smaller ships like the Darings the capstans were mounted above, and on the same shaft as, the cable holders) or secured to the foc's'le bollards or bitts (the two short posts between the port and starboard anchor cable). The square housing on which Daring"s cable holders are mounted was, I think, just a cover for the machinery on the deck below. A view of HMS Diana here shows most of this. Edited December 6, 2024 by Our Ned Typo 1
Gondor44 Posted December 6, 2024 Author Posted December 6, 2024 32 minutes ago, Our Ned said: For a fuller understanding of a ship's fo'c'sle and ground tackle, see here; although it shows the arrangements on a capital ship, most of the principles apply to the Darings. To answer the specific questions, the bullnose led upwards from the opening on the stem, and the towing hawser or other rope etc would have been led aft from just abaft the jack staff along the foc's'le to one of the capstans (on smaller ships like the Darings the capstans were mounted above, and on the same shaft as, the cable holders) or secured to the foc's'le bollards or bitts (the two shirt posts between the port and starboard anchor cable). The square housing on which Daring"s cable holders are mounted was, I think, just a cover for the machinery on the deck below. A view of HMS Diana here shows most of this. Thanks @Our Ned, Ship terminology is a new language to me, I think I am getting there abet slowly. Gondor
Gondor44 Posted December 8, 2024 Author Posted December 8, 2024 I little more work on the Daring. First I have marked an area that needs to be reduced in height as the top of the area is the same height as the forward section of deck which is difficult to cut around when adding the extended deck, far simpler to add one simple section than to faf around cutting out sections. So it was time to be a bit of an animal and get out the electric mayhem that I call my electric modelling drill and milling bit! And just like that, a section of new deck sit's flush with the old deck. Gondor 3
Gondor44 Posted December 8, 2024 Author Posted December 8, 2024 It can be rather surprising what you find when you're doing research on a subject. I have been reading this book which was recommended by a friend It turns out that the Type VI turret was designed in the early to mid 40's Colour me surprised! Gondor
Gondor44 Posted December 12, 2024 Author Posted December 12, 2024 I was recently looking for plans to allow me to build my own Type 965 radar for this project, being a little disappointed in the etch brass ones I had come across so far. So, my web search revealed that Starling Models produces both the AKE1 and AKE2 radars in 1/700 and 1/600. So how do they look? Well as near as you can probably get in 1/600 scale. Below is the Airfix rendition of the Type 965 from 1969. And with a Starling Models version Top view admittedly. And then both the AKE1 and AKE2 together They are not perfect, but they are very close indeed. They will look great when they go on top of their respective models. Gondor 7
Courageous Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 I like the look the of those radars from Starling, noted. Stuart
kitchentable Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 On 12/4/2024 at 10:08 PM, Gondor44 said: I managed to get some work done on the Daring today. Holes were drilled out for the anchors, they need more work as I am going to line them with some brass tube. After that I glued the rear hull side extensions into place followed by the kit's deck being fitted in place. There are a few gaps and I think the top may need trimming a little but that's ok, I can live with that. I also started work on the forward superstructure. As you can see, it's a bit rough and ready but that's not a problem as most of the remaining part will be clad in plastic card. Anyway, progress is progress. Gondor Hello Gondor, I finished the Airfix Daring recently and posted it on BM in November. Most of what you are doing is very bold and different to my attempt to improve the Airfix Daring model to a more accurate copy of real life. There is one area where you are retaining parts from the original that could be improved. The Airfix f'c'sle and B gun mount are not right. The turrets and the B gun deck need to come forward a fair bit. The difference is noticeable. The dimensions are in my BM post if you want to look at that. Good luck kitchentable 1
Gondor44 Posted December 12, 2024 Author Posted December 12, 2024 2 minutes ago, kitchentable said: Hello Gondor, I finished the Airfix Daring recently and posted it on BM in November. Most of what you are doing is very bold and different to my attempt to improve the Airfix Daring model to a more accurate copy of real life. There is one area where you are retaining parts from the original that could be improved. The Airfix f'c'sle and B gun mount are not right. The turrets and the B gun deck need to come forward a fair bit. The difference is noticeable. The dimensions are in my BM post if you want to look at that. Good luck kitchentable Duly noted, I shall bookmark the build as I have not got that far with my build yet. Gondor
kitchentable Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 13 minutes ago, Gondor44 said: Duly noted, I shall bookmark the build as I have not got that far with my build yet. Gondor Your Friedman book has a side elevation that shows the problem clearly. Fair winds. 1
Gondor44 Posted December 15, 2024 Author Posted December 15, 2024 (edited) So after a short while of not doing much, I got my a$$ in gear and did some work. There is now a rear deck extension that looks the part and as importantly, is as symmetrical as I can get it. The work on the superstructure will be a bit further down the road as I am going to concentrate on getting the VDS and Limbo areas built. This was as far as I had got with my Leander build when I ran into difficulties working out how the viewports for the VDS could be constructed. I'm probably going to have the same issues with this ship but if I manage to build them then I can forge ahead with the Leander as well. With regard to the B gun mount that @kitchentable mentions, I managed to scale the drawing from my reference. As near as I can measure the lengths at the boot line are the same. Parallax is making the kit look bigger because it is closer to the camera than the drawing. This means that the superstructure that B turret sits on is like this So to me, it looks as if it's only the curved section that is too small. It's a pity that we only get side elevations in the book, a plan elevation would be very helpful indeed. I am going to have to re-read my references to try and work out if I need to do any work to the side of the superstructure, did it have a constant distance from the edge of the deck or did it have straight sides? Gondor Edited December 15, 2024 by Gondor44 speiling mistake 5
Gondor44 Posted December 31, 2024 Author Posted December 31, 2024 Not much has been done on the model even though I have had plenty of time, I have simply been trying to relax. So earlier this week I used my Leander as a ruler to measure out how long each wall of the Limbo well needs to be. I then cut some plastic card to rough lengths. As you can see, I have an open hatch on the lowest piece of card. The layout is Forward to the left, Aft to the Right, Port to the bottom and Starbourd to the top. Here is a close-up of the door. I don't mind that the frame looks a little crocked on its right-hand side, it will be hidden at the back of the VDS bay. I will be drilling out the plastic in the door opening so that it can be seen through, however, there will be no direct line-of-sight through it, but shining a light into the Limbo well will be seen if you look forward from the rear of the VDS well. As a size reference, each yellow line on the cutting mat is one centimetre apart from each other. Maybe I will manage to get the Limbo bay constructed by the end of the day if I don't get distracted too much by other future builds. Gondor 4
Gondor44 Posted December 31, 2024 Author Posted December 31, 2024 (edited) So I did a bit more in the evening. I started by working on the round-down for the VDS. This worked out better than I hoped for as the kit plastic was thick enough to take cutting back almost perfectly. I did need to use a little filler and I have used some plastic rod to fill a hole in the old deck, both will need to be cleaned up later. I then turned my attention to the door at the back of the VDS well and came up with the idea of using a wooden clothes peg behind the plastic for the drill bit to go into rather than my fingers or the cutting mat. A short while later as I was cutting the waste plastic from between some holes, the door came free. Then when I was finishing removing the excess plastic, the knife cut to the edge of the plastic strip so I had to glue the cut back together. I decided that was enough for the day and stopped. Gondor Edited January 2 by Gondor44 speiling mistake 4
Gondor44 Posted January 5 Author Posted January 5 Finally got around to sorting out the door! It's not going to be fitted just yet as part of the surrounding structure needs to be built first, but it's the fiddliest part for now. Talking about other structures. The stern of the hull has a step in it from the lengths of each hull half being slightly different, so I have added a section of thin plastic card onto the stern which I shall attach the starboard side of the VDS well to before I trim it to size and sand it flush with the port side of the stern. Another step in the right direction, a small one perhaps, but a step forward. Gondor 8
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