Breguet XIX - and reliable drawings exists ?

[JWM]

Hi,

After a great series of Potez XXV by Azur-FRROM there are hopes on similar series of Breguet XIX. However, I've heard that the main obstacle with production of a decent Breguet XIX A/B2 (the basic variant) kit is a lack of a reliable drawings. All survived machines (two in Paris and one in Madrid) are of TR, Bidon or Super Bidon variants, so very seriously different from basic production type. 

I do not know why the archive of Breguet company do not contain it, but this type was produced also at least in Spain (CASA), Belgium (SABCA) and Yugoslavia (Krajlevo). 

I would like to ask all Forum Members for their help in finding the drawings/documents which will allow to release a decent kit of this very important machine.

 

I am not involved in any model production company, so I act only on a voluntary base here.. In Krakow museum there are only some manulas found. 

Regards

J-W

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by JWM

[Bobk]

There are several good and one great reference on the Breguet XIX. First there is a good plan of a later radial engined one in an old "Aeroplan" magazine, Nov.-Dec, 1989. Then there is "Aeroplano" no.1, which can be found online for free from the publisher, has a plan for an Lorraine powered one in 1/72 and also the Super Bidon. There is also the "Typy Baroni 44 Breguet XIX" one of the many polish profile like publications.  Also there is a group of plans out of Poland "Plany_Modelarskie_118_Breguet_XIX" which is nothing BUT detailed plans of the Polish built Breguet XIX, and a copy is for sale right now on EvilBay. Then there is what I consider the best reference, in the digitized collection of the Polish Air Museum there is a handbook for the Breguet XIX A and B for free download, I know most of the references I have are for Polish XIX's but the only difference that I know of in appearance is that the panels directly under the opening for the rear gunner on the Polish machines where fabric covered rather than metal...or the other way around. But if I'm not mistaken you have an interest in SCW and the Poles sold some to the Republic so.....! Last but not least Air Enthusiast did a good article on the differences between all the different variants which included small drawings of those differences.

  

Edited December 16, 2023 by Bobk
included one more reference

[JWM]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:51 PM, Bobk said:

There are several good and one great reference on the Breguet XIX. First there is a good plan of a later radial engined one in an old "Aeroplan" magazine, Nov.-Dec, 1989. Then there is "Aeroplano" no.1, which can be found online for free from the publisher, has a plan for an Lorraine powered one in 1/72 and also the Super Bidon. There is also the "Typy Baroni 44 Breguet XIX" one of the many polish profile like publications.  Also there is a group of plans out of Poland "Plany_Modelarskie_118_Breguet_XIX" which is nothing BUT detailed plans of the Polish built Breguet XIX, and a copy is for sale right now on EvilBay. Then there is what I consider the best reference, in the digitized collection of the Polish Air Museum there is a handbook for the Breguet XIX A and B for free download, I know most of the references I have are for Polish XIX's but the only difference that I know of in appearance is that the panels directly under the opening for the rear gunner on the Polish machines where fabric covered rather than metal...or the other way around. But if I'm not mistaken you have an interest in SCW and the Poles sold some to the Republic so.....! Last but not least Air Enthusiast did a good article on the differences between all the different variants which included small drawings of those differences.

Thank you, the key word is "reliable" ....

[dragonlanceHR]

11 hours ago, JWM said:

Thank you, the key word is "reliable" ....

ROFL I get you, it took forever to get accurate Spitfires, getting the accurate Br XIX seems like an impossible task. 

So get the plans, compare them to photos Jun Temma style, rinse and repeat 😉

[tempestfan]

11 hours ago, dragonlanceHR said:

ROFL I get you, it took forever to get accurate Spitfires, getting the accurate Br XIX seems like an impossible task. 

So get the plans, compare them to photos Jun Temma style, rinse and repeat 😉

Hey Vedran, as you know, the first really accurate (1/48) Spit was done by Lindberg in 1955 (aka BT-K). Not much later, an enterprising English company released a 72nd version which was darn close. That can't be coincidence; I read it on X, I guess. ---Kidding aside, Airfix's 1959 JE-J was infinitely better, and John Edwards' Superkit should have settled shapes for the most. In time to celebrate 30 years BoB. Way back before I was born - John Edwards, I'd liked to have interviewed you. like Ralph Ehrmann - RIP.

So why should a(n accurate) XIX be beyond the realms of possibility? 

[Bobk]

On 12/16/2023 at 11:51 AM, Bobk said:

There are several good and one great reference on the Breguet XIX. First there is a good plan of a later radial engined one in an old "Aeroplan" magazine, Nov.-Dec, 1989. Then there is "Aeroplano" no.1, which can be found online for free from the publisher, has a plan for an Lorraine powered one in 1/72 and also the Super Bidon. There is also the "Typy Baroni 44 Breguet XIX" one of the many polish profile like publications.  Also there is a group of plans out of Poland "Plany_Modelarskie_118_Breguet_XIX" which is nothing BUT detailed plans of the Polish built Breguet XIX, and a copy is for sale right now on EvilBay. Then there is what I consider the best reference, in the digitized collection of the Polish Air Museum there is a handbook for the Breguet XIX A and B for free download, I know most of the references I have are for Polish XIX's but the only difference that I know of in appearance is that the panels directly under the opening for the rear gunner on the Polish machines where fabric covered rather than metal...or the other way around. But if I'm not mistaken you have an interest in SCW and the Poles sold some to the Republic so.....! Last but not least Air Enthusiast did a good article on the differences between all the different variants which included small drawings of those differences.

  

 

On 12/17/2023 at 1:33 PM, JWM said:

Thank you, the key word is "reliable" ....

I would like to know what you consider ""reliable"". I would think that, barring small differences, the aircrafts' handbook would suffice. Have you taken a look at the "Plany Modelarskie 118 Breguet XIX because these are very detailed and inclusive drawings. They at least a very good starting point.

[JWM]

I have seen all manuals which are available on a web site of Krakow's and they provide a lot of details, but not the general shapes. They are apparently simplyfied. What I am trying to find are drawings based on the Breguet factory production documents. I hope they should exist in some archive and the worldwide forum like BM could be helpful in such  search. I agree with you, that drawings in Plany Modelarskie looks very good... My question is about the tracibility of drawings to factory documents. For example CASA produced Breguet XIX under licence. My suppouse is that those documents exists in some  archive and could be used.

[dragonlanceHR]

10 hours ago, tempestfan said:

So why should a(n accurate) XIX be beyond the realms of possibility? 

That's what I asked Airfix!!!! Next time I want an 1/48 XIX, I will modify the Mk.XIV kit.

[dragonlanceHR]

JWM, maybe if you asked on Fighters or Master174 French forums? Or ask the member BS_w?

[CarLos]

On 12/16/2023 at 7:51 PM, Bobk said:

There are several good and one great reference on the Breguet XIX. First there is a good plan of a later radial engined one in an old "Aeroplan" magazine, Nov.-Dec, 1989. Then there is "Aeroplano" no.1, which can be found online for free from the publisher, has a plan for an Lorraine powered one in 1/72 and also the Super Bidon. There is also the "Typy Baroni 44 Breguet XIX" one of the many polish profile like publications.  Also there is a group of plans out of Poland "Plany_Modelarskie_118_Breguet_XIX" which is nothing BUT detailed plans of the Polish built Breguet XIX, and a copy is for sale right now on EvilBay. Then there is what I consider the best reference, in the digitized collection of the Polish Air Museum there is a handbook for the Breguet XIX A and B for free download, I know most of the references I have are for Polish XIX's but the only difference that I know of in appearance is that the panels directly under the opening for the rear gunner on the Polish machines where fabric covered rather than metal...or the other way around. But if I'm not mistaken you have an interest in SCW and the Poles sold some to the Republic so.....! Last but not least Air Enthusiast did a good article on the differences between all the different variants which included small drawings of those differences.

  

 

Adding to that, this book has about 30 pages on the XIX. No detailed scale drawings (and only at 1/144) but a lot of profiles of the different versions, and drawings from manuals. And, of course, a lot of photos well printed on good paper,

 

I think that there is enough out there to make a good kit, only the information is not concentrated in one volume. Must check my Airmodel vac against the documentation.

 

Carlos

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by CarLos
Forget the link to the book

[JWM]

On 12/19/2023 at 6:40 PM, CarLos said:

Must check my Airmodel vac against the documentation.

Thank you for info on this book. BTW - I did alredy two models of Breguet XIX 

 

But I am still dreaming about two next builds, much straight OOB from a decent kit... They will be the Greek (V-engine) one and Croatian one (or partizan, anyway with Jupiter engine), both from WW2 ....

Regards

J-W

 

[JWM]

P/S/