DAF Hurricane - and the everlasting question (and answer) of "azure blue"

[Johnny Tip]

Right,

here goes my second WIP ever. I've finally started with the Revell Hurricane Mk IIb, been working for about two weeks and hav neither finished the cockpit nor am I close. Admittedly I only have late evenings for modelling and have skipped some days completely for assembling 1/1 scale children's room's bed and 2 cupboards,and for diving into early 20's Birmingham with Peaky Blinders. But also I have never before took so much care with the little details of a cockpit, and much of the time is spent on looking at pictures in my copy of Haynes' Workshop manual and here on BM. Pictures are to follow, but right now I have a problem:

 

WHERE do I fit the Hydraulic system's control box? (apologies for earlier strong words) 

 

The diagram and picture places it lower than the framework that holds the cockpit, but if I'm not much mistaken that space is taken by the main gear bay (and I stopped my looking for a coolant system duct when I realized it is the tube that is clearly visible looking inside that bay). Can anyone here help me with that? Btw if I have already committed errors please feel free to point them out, be they in planning or building part recognition. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

Johnny Tip 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Johnny Tip
toning it down ;)

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Johnny,

I am sure someone knowledgeable will be along soon , not sure where myself.  There are no pics showing at the mo.

Chris

[Johnny Tip]

(always tricky if not impossible to post pics from my mobile... now mended.)

 

Here's the diagram for my question. 

And this is as far as I've come with the part. 

 

A little more sightseeing:

 

Test fitting of theback armor and the seat. The seat's patch to stop the ripcord from chafing has already gotten painted brown by now, and Eduard's seatbelts are waiting for installment. 

And here's the beer lever. I'm not quite sure if it is correct to have a brass firing button in a Mk. IIb, but red by Revell's instructions didn't seem right as well. 

Actual status from a few hours ago. Back armor once again installed for testing and planning. I haven't decided whether to put more tubing next to the hydraulic pump once the lever is installed, or leave it be.

That's all for now, 

Johnny Tip out. 

[Johnny Tip]

Yesterday evening was a good one. I got to do a bit of modeling... 

... didn't forget to NOT paint the little windows in the gear bay roof... 

... did a little test fit of the cockpit as-is in the fuselage... 

... and got to prepare the midsection of the wing. That enabled me to do some test fittings. And those showed to me the answer to my question in post #1 - there IS indeed enough room for the control box. Also helped me recognise the spaces shown in the pictures in my Haynes' magic book of info.. So work can continue if time will be available. Next on: how will I fit the wiring to the back wing spar if I have to attach it to the cockpit - and thus the fuselage - before finally fitting fuselage and lower midsection wing together? Stay tuned. 

[bigbadbadge]

Glad you were able to answer your question. Going to look very impressive when assembled and placed into the fuselage.

Looking good. Great work

Chris

[Johnny Tip]

Thanks Chris, it was one of my happier modeling moments😂

 

Just like in other builds one is tempted to implement details noone will ever see after you close up the fuselage, unless you open some hatches. I have now decided against it as I don't want to take on too many new things at once - the extra plumbing visible in the cockpit will be enough for me. 

Sure, some of it will still be out of sight once the seat is in place, but you all know how it goes - I know it's there. And I know a little bit more about this wonderful aeroplane (though I'll never surpass Troy). 

A view from downstairs. I still intend to add the wires from the wheels/flaps lever to the control box, that is why there are those tiny holes. 

And another view. Those wires on the port side belong to the oil system (that's where I decided not to open that hatch), the ending points out of view from the cockpit... maybe when I finally do the 1/24 one... but that's a Mk I... hm. No Building tomorrow as we visit Gordon Matthew Sumner's show, so still time to reconsider. 

 

The inside wired as well... 

 

Surely the next part to tackle will be the IP... let's see how the kit variant works.

Good night for now, 

Johnny Tip. 

 

PS: just a shot of the test fitting

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Johnny Tip
pictorial dessert

[Johnny Tip]

G'day, 

 

little progress has been made, but progress it is. 

Here's the box in question, connected to the switch for gear and flaps. As you see, the IP has joined the others in the cockpit. 

The three decals for the IP have been... well... dungy. With decal softener, they would stay in place.  One part of the gauge. And the other half of it would land halfway to the neighbouring gauge. Lots of colourful language was uttered under my breath, some cutting done, and the decal part for the main gear indicator had to be excluded completely - at least the one to be easily painted by hand. 

As you can see, work on the seatbelts has finally started. 

And another view of the pilot's office. That decal on the side panel sits just fine, with minimal effort. 

Wings appear on the horizon (at long last - can't remember a model I've worked on so long with so little to show for it) so I worked a little on the inserts for the landing lights. Thank goodness I have access to very small drills at work... 

... and some personnel too. Our shop is designed (and budgeted!) for at least 4 people, and I've been working through the late summer with just one part-time colleague. That's when I came up with the idea for this board. 

 

Bye for now, 

your trusted audiologist Johnny Tip

[Johnny Tip]

Back with the next update.

The wing assembly was as easy as can be - superb fit. As was the assembly of the fuselage halves. the cockpit was held perfectly in place. 

Only small trouble with installing the starboard outer guns, that panel slipped into the wing and wouldn't come out as there was already glue on it. By sheer luck, I saw it stuck on the main gear bay outer wall and extracted it through the view port - the opening for the inner gun muzzles.

I have left off any transparencies, out of fear of terribly marring them with glue. (the instructions tell us builders to tape the closed canopy to the fuselage -and I know why now... but more on that later) 

Absolutely (not) looking forward to fiddling that pipe into place... 

... it would not just slip into place... 

... instead, the pipe got unattached. 😬 Thankfully, nothing bad. It wasn't glued but just stuck together. For the test fitting (without the pipe), I was in for a bad surprise:

Somehow the fuselage would not fit seamlessly. I have no idea why. But, remembering the big debate when the prototype pics of the kit were released, I looked from the front:

Seems familiar.

 

I scraped some material off the wing roots, tested, scraped to about 1mm off... finally, the front fit. But not the rear. One side of the fuselage would just not sink far enough into place. Cutting off the little "handles" to strengthen the connection between fuselage and wing - nothing. Some elevations that might stop the cockpit cage from falling into place were worked on - nope. All I had managed was to snap off the gunsight (might not have happened if I'd taped the canopy on). 

What finally did it was widening the cutout in the rear main wing spar. I had test fitted the cockpit into place tots of times, but everything in combination seems to have interfered with the overall fit; whatever, I could finally force everything into place. 

and another look from the front:

I hand it to the absolute Hurricane buffs to decide about correct angles - I'm satisfied. Right now it sits on the table like that and has all the time in the world to let the glue set. I will have to use some putty on the wing roots, but the kit is rescued. 

And now I need to catch my breath. 

Goodnight! 

[Johnny Tip]

I have slowly advanced in building and searching the internet, and have finally taken a shine to Hurricane HL795 of 274 squadron. Not especially a rare bird, but I like it and my wife thinks it will look fine in my "gallery" when finished (not unimportant to keep the peace at home when amassing Hurricanes). 

 

The question arises about the colours: the undersides are often called azure, and whatever colour code I look up seems so very dark! (Revell paints are the base of my german paint-suitcase, and #56 is closest) I don't need the hue to be absolutely correct (who _really_ knows anyway? looking at "humbrol 29&30"), but was the plane that dark blue or a bit lighter? Or much lighter? Can anyone help me? 

[Jochen Barett]

Maybe with a lot of white you can get Revel 56 to come close enough to the real thing according to your taste / standards.

 

Do check this thread to get some ideas:

 

A teaser:

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Jochen Barett

[Johnny Tip]

Thank you Jochen! So many threads that already covered the topics... 

[Troy Smith]

44 minutes ago, Johnny Tip said:

Can anyone help me? 

if using revell Aqua it will b a mix.

2 Azure blue causes A LOT of confusing, as the post war colour is different, but same name.

It's a a quite intense light purple blue.  Very pretty.

If you are luck @Casey maybe able to suggest a  revell mix.

HTH

[Johnny Tip]

Thank you Troy, for summarizing many pages of thread 😁 and tagging for more help. 

Revell aqua it is - so I am used to mixing! 

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Johnny Tip said:

Revell aqua it is - so I am used to mixing! 

 

Looking at the list, and looking at blues listed in my RAL-K-7 classic.

36154 /RAL 5022, a dark purple blue.

Try adding this to white,  though @Casey has mentioned that Revel Aqua  'white' are not a pure white, but slightly 'creamy', you may want to try a different white.

 

HTH

 

[Casey]

2 hours ago, Johnny Tip said:

Revell aqua it is - so I am used to mixing! 

Does it have to be Revell? They are not having single pigments and mixing is difficult, and I do not have their mixing properties measured. I have recipes for azure blue for other paints.

[mick]

great work on cockpit

[Johnny Tip]

Thanks again Troy - indeed it is, the matt white almost ranges into 'panzer interior white', the glossier it gets the more white it is. I might try something with 54 - always wanted a reason to have it. 

Unless you have other advice @Casey, trouble is I have mostly revell paints as they are the only ones available outside of internet ordering. I have tried Tamiya acrylic paint a few weeks ago and liked the experience, totally different from revell. Would that be an easier choice? Thanks in advance! 

 

Thank you @mick, never taken that long for "just" a cockpit... practice for whenever I start my airfix 1/24 one. 

 

BTW more thanks to you @Troy Smith as i stumbled over your list of block 7 serials and it gave me some relief that aluminium is indeed the correct colour for wells and interior of HL795. You are a fountain of Hurricane knowledge. 

[Casey]

1 hour ago, Johnny Tip said:

Unless you have other advice @Casey, trouble is I have mostly revell paints as they are the only ones available outside of internet ordering. I have tried Tamiya acrylic paint a few weeks ago and liked the experience, totally different from revell. Would that be an easier choice? Thanks in advance! 

The main issue I have with Tamiya is complete lack of historical pigments. They only use a few of modern pigments to make all their colors - for example their earth colors are simulated using pyrrole orange and black, which does not look right.

 

Those pigments are not enough to truthfully replicate the color and this is a problem with all commercial paint vendors. Azure Blue is impossible to be obtained without proper pigments (and as far as I know only new Humbrol comes even relatively close with their new gen2 acrylics, but I had other issue with this paint, which you can also see on this thread later).

 

I've posted one of my recipes here long time ago:

 

 

Here's the result:

 

 

I used Golden Fluid Acrylics there at that time and the results were great. Can you check not the modellers shops, but any artists shop for what they have? Liquitex Basic Fluid (not liquitex basic, those are two different things!) or Golden Fluid Acrylics (exact name of product is important here too)- if they have any of those, I can help you to get perfect Azure Blue (and all RAF/RLM/ANA colors too)

Edited December 23, 2023 by Casey

[Johnny Tip]

48 minutes ago, Casey said:

or Golden Fluid Acrylics (exact name of product is important here too)- if they have any of those, I can help you to get perfect Azure Blue (and all RAF/RLM/ANA colors too)

My wife has access to an artists' shop who has Golden Fluid Acrylics, so I'd be very happy to know the colours needed for Azure Blue; and while we're at it, also the desert light camo colors. And 1940 daytime fighter camo? If I'm not asking too much

👉👈

(wife is happy, "art shopping tour" has appeared on her/our calendar) 

 

Thank you so much in advance, and goodnight from me, 

Johnny Tip

[Troy Smith]

13 minutes ago, Johnny Tip said:

the colours needed for Azure Blue; and while we're at it, also the desert light camo colors. And 1940 daytime fighter camo? If I'm not asking too much

ta-da 

HTH

[Casey]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

ta-da 

HTH

Thanks for reminding me to update the expired photo links.... I'll work on it (and update the recipes too while I am at it)

 

... which I did. I've also added Liquitex Basic Fluid recipes as an cheaper alternative and Tamiya Lacquers for all those who really like to smell what they are painting

Edited December 24, 2023 by Casey

[Johnny Tip]

Another "thank you" doesn't really cover it. Great offering of possibilities, I will certainly find a solution in that! Will have to wait for the shops to open again, and then saturdays with time to go shopping.

 

Happy Holidays! 

[Johnny Tip]

Happy New Year everyone!  I hope y'all had a wonderful Christmas. 

 

I don't want to lose too many words tonight (haven't the time, back to work tomorrow), but I tried @Casey's recipe of Golden Fluid Acrylic paint...

(photo taken just 5mins ago, about 10pm here) 

 

... and I fell in love. At almost 1st sight. No primer coat or anything, just mixing (way too much paint, I could do another one with the remaining amount) and brushing away. Of course I have to wait for the daylight impression, but I can already say "I know what I want for my birthday - more of the paint stuff". I'll have to redo the upper camo, the Revell paint is no match. 

 

Even if I am repeating myself again - THANK YOU so much Casey for steering me in the right direction, and of course the work of coming up with the recipes.

Enough for now,

goodbye from Johnny

Edited January 1 by Johnny Tip

[Casey]

7 hours ago, Johnny Tip said:

just mixing

Just to make sure: you did mix it by mass parts not volume, right?

[Johnny Tip]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

Just to make sure: you did mix it by mass parts not volume, right?

Indeed I did. Volume would've produced a very different outcome, I could see that