South African Mirage III RZ question

[Luka]

Hi all, 
I am currently building a Mirage III RZ and I found these photos of a South African Recon Mirage at the Ysterplaat museum. Oddly, it doesn't have any national markings. Was this ever an operational scheme? I know that Rhodesian planes were sometimes devoid of all markings, notably during the Bush War, but I can find no period photos of S.A. Mirages without the Springbok Castles.

http://www.sa-transport.co.za/aircraft/dassault-brequet/mirage_III-r2z_saaf857_15_dvdb.JPG
http://www.sa-transport.co.za/aircraft/dassault-brequet/mirage_III-r2z_saaf857_01_dvdb.JPG

Edited February 12, 2021 by Luka

[Blimpyboy]

This forum will almost certainly have some answers:

https://www.saairforce.co.za/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=2ed468d7d0a8a02ba3d6555bb14abe97

 

 

Otherwise:

 

http://www.arcair.com/Gal16/15601-15700/gal15604-Mirage-Schenk/00.shtm

and

https://www.saairforce.co.za/seed/public/files/aircraft_images/50/45ba19d3c0b1b_large.jpg

and

 

 

I'm not sure if this one is an RZ

 

 

And, I'm not sure how contemporary this one is: visiblepast.tripod.com/mir3r15.jpg

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Blimpyboy

[Luka]

@Blimpyboy Thanks, the Dirk Schenk article gave me the confirmation I needed as he stated that the insignia were indeed removed to improve survivability during the Border War operations. The pics are helpful too!

As for the picture you posted at the bottom; judging from the tail fin and the cockpit position I think that's a Mirage III CZ, but it does again confirm the deletion of hi-viz markings during that period.
I like the hammock that's suspended under the plane in the shadow!

[NFR]

How did you go with this build? I've just started 2 Recce Mirage builds.

 

Could you please elaborate with regards to the cockpit position on a RZ and CZ being different? I can definitely see the differences in the tail (you learn something new every day!)

 

The Mirage at Ysterplaat is also a R2Z not RZ. The main differences being that they had Mirage F1 Engine, Sub Systems, Updated Matin Baker (Mk10 if i remember correctly) and have enlarged intakes for the ATAR 09-K50 (You can see this in the picture posted by Blimpyboy. The Mirage closest to the camera is the R2Z). With a few changes in antenna were made as they were updated too. 

[Hook]

12 hours ago, NFR said:

Could you please elaborate with regards to the cockpit position on a RZ and CZ being different?

The R series are based on the Mirage IIIE, which has a slightly stretched fuselage compared to the earlier C due to an enlarged avionics bay behind the cockpit.

 

The intake lips on the E and subsequent variants roughly align with the aft vertical canopy frame, while on the C the lips are level with the ejection seat.

 

C :

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/363454632407444326/

 

E et al:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/aerofossile2012/44848097175

 

Once you know what to look for, it's obvious.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Edited May 18, 2023 by Hook

[NFR]

4 hours ago, Hook said:

The R series are based on the Mirage IIIE, which has a slightly stretched fuselage compared to the earlier C due to an enlarged avionics bay behind the cockpit.

 

The intake lips on the E and subsequent variants roughly align with the aft vertical canopy frame, while on the C the lips are level with the ejection seat.

 

C :

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/363454632407444326/

 

E et al:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/aerofossile2012/44848097175

 

Once you know what to look for, it's obvious.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

Ah yes! Thanks for the info, Andre! 

[exdraken]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:57 PM, Hook said:

The R series are based on the Mirage IIIE, which has a slightly stretched fuselage compared to the earlier C due to an enlarged avionics bay behind the cockpit.

Hmmm have to look it up, but wasn't that the other way round? The E being based on the R?

There was also an RD by the way!

 

Nice project and intriguing topic!

[Hook]

4 minutes ago, exdraken said:

Hmmm have to look it up, but wasn't that the other way round? The E being based on the R?

The R was based on the E airframe, but became operational before it because the R avionics suite was basically that of the C, shortening the developement time.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre