roma847 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 Hi everybody, Shipped! Just now, I've got Shapeways' pleasant message, that they have shipped the Intertank (€ 73,26). Consequently Michael Key's 3D model seems to have been print-ready. Now I'm very curious what the part will look like. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichO Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I hope all goes well Manfred! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 Thanks Rich, and therefore keep all fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 Hi Rich, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichO Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I just found this! Thanks Manfred!! That was really nice to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 Hello everybody, meanwhile, the long-awaited package of Shapeways has arrived, at first again only a feather-light box with lots of air in it, which was carefully let out. And before the last shell fell, one could already see the object of desire. Compared with the accustomed images of the 3D model, the Intertank looks at first glance rather inconspicuous, because one can not really perceive the details due to the semi-transparent FUD look and really must look very closely, especially as there is sticking a lot of supporting wax in the fine grooves of the Stringer and Ribs, which still has to be removed. But stable feels the part anyway. But what has attracted my attention immediately was the fact that the inner support tube was missing, through which I want to thread the support rod for the SRBs, which surprised me a lot and I can not explain, especially since the tube still was to be seen on Michael Key's3D model images, as well as in the 3D view on Shapeways' website, which is very strange ... Source: shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place) The later-planned steel rod (Ø 1.5 mm) could not at first be inserted into the opening and pushed through, but after a few attempts it was still possible, albeit with some difficulty. After this first disillusionment I've tried out the provisionally taped front part of the ET, which let fit tightly onto the intertank. And here are some more images with an attempt to catch some of the details but what was not easy. Here is a look at the two Fairings as well as the PAL Ramps and Cable Trays, although the latters can hardly be recognized. In contrast to the narrow fit of the front part, I noticed perceptible clearance of the parts when setting the Intertank onto the rear part of the ET. But otherwise the part is coming out quite well, I think. And I just when I wanted to put the Intertank together with the ASTC rings in my new ultrasonic bath for cleaning, as I noticed that the rear inner ring was broken and had detached nearly over half the length from the inner wall, as if it had not been tied to it at all. How this can happen is completely obscure to me, especially since the laser melts together the wafer-thin layers of powder when printing, really strange ... To this amazing finding and the missing inner tube I have to consult Michael Key and hear what he means, then we'll see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 Hi everybody, now again to the missing inner tube, from which even Michael Key was very surprised, because when he has checked the number of parts of the model on Shapeways' website, there was displayed it with "1", which means, that everything is connected. Then I looked at the 3D Panoramic view of the model at Shapeways' website once more very closely and found a setting where one can see that the tube on both sides clearly is not connected to the inner wall of the tank, which will now be the main subject of my complaint to Shapeways next to the crack of the inner ring. As Michael Key has told me, it would be Shapeways' standard method of sending a reprint, whereupon I'd like to renounce because I don't want to have a part with the same errors. Instead, I should ask them for a refund and say that there are some other issues with the model, whereat I have informed the designer, who is ready to modify his model for a better version. Besides I could casually mention Shapeways' 100% Satisfaction guarantee" with which they apparently advertise. I have informed Shapeways about this today and hope for their goodwill, to grant me a refund, in order to get an improved Intertank with inner tube in the second attempt. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 Hello everybody, today I tested my new Ultrasonic cleaning bath. Here is a vivid video of it by BANDELIN, on which one can see the ultrasonic cleaning of a chain in fast motion, and two images for comparison, in the initial state before cleaning, and afterwards. I was surprised by the time of about 4 hours, which may have been due to the selected object. But I did not let myself be guided by that when cleaning my first two ASTC Rings (FUD), especially since the device only allows max. 10 minutes. The device has 5 pre-set cleaning intervals, 90 sec., 180 sec., 300 sec., 480 sec. and 600 sec., which are automatically switched off by the timer. Obviously there is no on/off for security reasons, which I consider to be a disadvantage, especially when I think of cleaning the Intertank with its lots of fine grooves, which will certainly have to run for a longer time. That's why I asked the manufacturer if there is no other option than having to restart the timer over and over again. Anyway, I've let clean the FUD rings twice 600 seconds, so for a total of 20 minutes with some drops of rinse aid, after which they looked whiter than before, which has already been described by other guys. This can be seen by this comparison between the cleaned FUD rings (left) and the uncleaned FXD rings (right), although it is not serious. And here are the two FXD rings (right) after 20 minutes of cleaning. BTW, the liquid looked so cloudy after cleaning of total of 40 minutes cleaning time of the four ASTC Rings, which shows in comparison to the picture before the cleaning already a quite enriched state with detached wax. As far as to my first ultrasonic cleaning attempts. BTW, Shapeways is still remaining silent, whatever that may mean. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichO Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Really nice work on the FDX Rings and the Intertank. I found that the FUD, is sort of hard to see details until it's primered. Also, my wife uses an ultrasonic cleaner for her jewlery items. I didn't think to use it in this maner. Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustermark Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 The n-gauge model rail folks swear by soaking in oven cleaner, but this seems a cleaner and much more sophisticated approach. Hope you get that intertank sorted with Shapeways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Thanks Rich and Mark, only a short but good news, Shapeways has meanwhile accepted my complaint and granted me a refund. Now, Michael Key can do some minor changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Hello friends, only some thoughts to minor changes of the IT. In consultation with Michael Key we will now omit the inner tube completely, as there would probably be problems with the removal of the support material, which could possibly resist the ultrasonic cleaning. Then one would have to drill out the tube, which seems to me but too risky. BTW, I did not want to believe it at first, but there was one thing which I have noticed in retrospect on the 3D print, what I have overlooked at the 3D renderings. The front part of the LO2 PAL Ramp of the 3D model has almost the same width as the back part of the LH2 PAL Ramp, but this is a mistake and does not match the original optics. The LO2 PAL Ramp is too narrow and therefore needs to be widened, as one can see in these images. And actually, both ramps end up on the stringer top and do not run to the valley as before. Source: shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place) Source: NASA But that can certainly be corrected so that the optics are right again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 Hello everybody, actually I had thought that Michael Key had to make only small changes. But it came different again ... First, he has omitted the inner tube as well as modified the LO2 PAL Ramp (right) as desired, which looks much better. Source: shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place) However, I noticed that he did not modify the LH2 PAL Ramp in the same way, which I took for granted and therefore have not said it again. Source: shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place) But about his change of the diameters of the IT to reduce the slightly too large overhang at the rear end (Ør 60,0 mm) I was then quite shocked, because he accordingly must have misunderstood my image with the diameters of the Airfix Intertank and the values measured at the 3D print (red on white ground). But in hindsight, I must confess that the picture has become rather confusing and misleading. Because he had now set the front diameter (Øf) of the IT to 57,0 mm and the rear diameter (Ør) to 58,0 mm, so that it is consistent with the front and the rear part of the ET. As a result, there should be no overhang of the IT, neither front nor back, but which in reality is not the case because of the Stringer/Ribs and has never been up for discussion, on the contrary. Maybe that the rejuvenation of IT by 1 mm seemed to have got mixed up him, which was obviously difficult to implement in modeling. The bad thing was that he had already uploaded this disimproved Intertank to Shapeways. After that I have showed him the different diameters of the three ET parts again clearly in the following pictures and explained the differences. D2 and D3 are the small overhangs of the Airfix IT that need to stay that way. On this image one can see the connection diameter D2.1, which has to fit into the ET front part (D1.1), and the diameter D4.1 of the heel of the ET rear part, which has to fit into the Intertank, whose inner diameter D3.1 can be seen here. Hopefully this should have made it clear that we need the overhangs, so I asked him for the necessary changes in the hope that he could clench his teeth and be able to do it. Apparently Michael Key has that now understood and has adjusted the LH2 PAL Ramp as well as the rear IT diameter D3 to 59,0 mm and the front diameter 58,0 mm and then uploaded his model again. And so the Intertank now looks at the Shapeways-Website, whereby he has become even cheaper by the removal of the inner tube with € 69,44. Source: shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place) I just ordered it again and hope that all good things come in threes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichO Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Glad to see you are mainlining your addiction again Manfred! This is all going to look so cool when you are done. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 Well roared, lion, thank you likewise, Rich! BTW, my Shapeways order is now on its way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 Hello everybody, another subproject are the Ice/Frost Ramps on the LH2 External Tank, and maybe Michael Key can also help me again. In fact, there are 17 Ramps, whereby the rear three ramps looking slightly different than the front 14. Source: NASA And that's how most of the Ramps for the GO2/GH2 Press. Lines look like. Source: NASA My ARC friend Bill (niParts) has already modeled a Set of these Ice Ramps in 1:72, but in 1:144 they are much smaller and could possibly be problematic for 3D printing. Source: shapeways.com (niParts) In reality, the ramps are 2' x 2' x 1' , and accordingly 4 mm x 4 mm x 2 mm for the ET (1:144). The diameter of the GO2/GH2 Press. Lines is 2'' = Ø 0,35 mm (1:144) and is used as the reference gauge. The openings in the ramps are slightly larger, approx. Ø 0,5 mm, as one can see on this image. Possible that the small wall thicknesses for Shapeways pose a problem, but which I do not hope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Hello everybody, in 2015, Mike (egt95) started his project Space Shuttle Discovery STS-41D based on the Revell Stack (1:144) and the Newware Space Shuttle Enhancement Kit 1/144 (NW131), and had especially introduced the Newware Kit in detail, which consists of 196 parts (93 Resin, 103 PE) and 60 Decals (including templates for SRBs and ET). Then he started building the Orbiter, and now continues also with the Shuttle Launch tower. At the end of the last year, when I started to deal with the Intertank and the SRB's Aft Skirt Thermal Curtains (AFTC), I got to know a friend of the Britmodeller Forum (PZRGREN), who also had used this Newware Kit and asked him for detail photos, especially from the ET and the Ice/Frost Ramps, etc. ... Thereupon he has sent me some interesting photos of his ET with the SRBs, where one can see some of the kit parts installed. Source: britmodeller.com/forums (PZRGREN) Source: britmodeller.com/forums (PZRGREN) Source: britmodeller.com/forums (PZRGREN) Since the representation of the ramps in the construction manual of the Newware Kit is very detailed and clear, and the resin parts also make a very good impression, Source: arcforums.com (egt95) I asked my friend to send me some close-ups of the Ramps. Then he offered surprisingly, in addition to the photos to send me also his spare parts and the instructions, what I have thankfully accepted, a really nice gesture from him. And since I have seen in the instructions that in the associated PE board among other things even the tiny hinges for the Payload Bay Doors of the Challenger are included, which he does not need because he has built the Atlantis I've also asked him about it. Source: arcforums.com (egt95) And he kept his word and in the meantime has sent me the promised things. As one can see on this image, there are a few spare parts of almost all the Ramp types, on which I will go into detail, one of which lies on the cent coin. And I have to admit, the parts look really nice, whereby one should not be shocked by the chunky resin blocks. One just has to separate it carefully enough so that there is still something left over from the midgets. The openings for the two Press. Lines are actually hollow, and here I have inserted a nickel silver wire (Ø 0,4 mm), which I will use. The openings are dimensioned slightly larger than real necessary, so that even a Styrene rod (Ø 0,5 mm) fits through, and there is enough space for the Evergreen Strip (0,75 mm x 1 mm) for the Cable Tray, as suggested in the kit, which is slightly oversized, wherefore I will use a smaller strip (0,5 mm x 0,75 mm) that is placed here. The spare parts are indeed not sufficient, but are well suited as a template for the 3D modeling, since of this R23 Type alone 14 pieces are needed, as one can see from this kit drawing. Source: http://mek.kosmo.cz/newware/nw131.htm With that I want to let it go for now. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagou Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Awesome work Manfred Before assembling , do you put yours Shapeways pieces under UV lights or sunshine? Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 More excellent looking work and great research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustermark Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Amazing level of detail and thoroughness. Awesome work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 On 23.3.2018 at 8:38 PM, Kagou said: Awesome work Manfred Before assembling , do you put yours Shapeways pieces under UV lights or sunshine? Pierre Thanks Pierre, no, I only want to clean them in my Ultrasonic bath. Thanks Nigel and Mark for your nice words, I do what I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, roma847 said: Thanks Pierre, no, I only want to clean them in my Ultrasonic bath. Thanks Nigel and Mark for your nice words, I do what I can. Shapeways designer "Model Monkey" has some excellent advice about preparing these parts on his website. He says: 4. I heard that I have to sit the parts in sunlight for a while before I paint them. Is that true? Yes, for products printed in "Frosted Detail" acrylic plastic and "Black High Definition Acrylate" plastic. During the printing process, liquid resin is hardened by ultraviolet light. Microscopic bits of resin may remain unhardened. Let your parts sit in direct sunlight or under a UV or fluorescent lamp for several hours to fully chemically harden the resin. The parts will appear a translucent white when fully hardened. Heat will not harden the resin, only UV light does. UV light breaks down an inhibitor in the liquid resin allowing the resin to harden. For the entire FAQ, see here: https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 Thanks Space Ranger for this link to Model Monkey's Website with a lot of interesting tips around 3D printing. Thereupon I have laid the Intertank half a day in the blazing sun and hope that it is now completely cured. Now I have still to clean it in the ultrasonic bath from the supporting wax, certainly also for a few hours due to the very fine stringer and ribs structure. But one thing has irritated me though. While Shapeways recommends that the wax support material can easily be removed using Acetone or Simple Green solvent, Model Monkey claims the opposite, because Acetone will melt Frosted Detail plastic. Whom should one believe more now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, roma847 said: Thanks Space Ranger for this link to Model Monkey's Website with a lot of interesting tips around 3D printing. Thereupon I have laid the Intertank half a day in the blazing sun and hope that it is now completely cured. Now I have still to clean it in the ultrasonic bath from the supporting wax, certainly also for a few hours due to the very fine stringer and ribs structure. But one thing has irritated me though. While Shapeways recommends that the wax support material can easily be removed using Acetone or Simple Green solvent, Model Monkey claims the opposite, because Acetone will melt Frosted Detail plastic. Whom should one believe more now? You're most welcome. As to whether acetone can be use, I'm no expert; all I know about cleaning Shapeways parts is what I've read on the internet! I have some Shapeways-printed parts but haven't had a chance to use them yet. I'd suggest a trial using some of the supporting material which is usually attached to a part. Clip it off, dunk it in acetone or Simple Green, and see what happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma847 Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 Trial and error is a good principle to gain experience. But unfortunately, I have no support part on my Intertank with which I could test and I'm not up for sacrificing my IT if the test fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now