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Pauls9cb

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Pauls9cb last won the day on May 28

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About Pauls9cb

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    New Member
  • Birthday 18/08/47

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  • Location
    East Dean UK
  • Interests
    Food, wine, BoB a/c modelling, local history.
  1. What Color are Luftwaffe Cockpits?

    Prepare yourself for a raft of replies from a variety of people, as well as many inconsistencies. My take on this is that during the early years of the Luftwaffe's history, most of the a/c interiors were finshed in what the RLM (German air ministry) called grey green with the RLM code RLM 02. It's a bit ;ighter and greyer than RAF interior green. Instrument panels were either dark grey (can't recall the RLM code) or RLM 02. Later in the war, most of the fighter interiors were painted this same dark grey. I'm unsure about bombers and other a/c but, when in doubt, I usually opt for RLM 02 which can have variety in terms of tint. I guess it depends what a/c you're planning to build. I don't know the model master/humbrol references but I'm sure others will. Best of luck. Paul
  2. Hawker Hurricane, propellers and spinners, a modellers guide

    Hi Troy - I've been thinking of changing the prop on the 1:32 scale Hurricane I've posted, pretending to take the Revell kit that was its basis into something resembling a Mk 1 Hurricane that finished its operational career several feet under the ground near Tunbridge Wells at the beginning of Sept 1940. The prop assembly in the Revell kit is the type fitted to the Mk 11 which Revell used as the basis for the kit. I couldn't find a PCM kit at the time and until I went through this learned thread, I thought "who would notice?" I've tried to find a 1:32 scale de Havilland or Rotol prop for either Spitfires or Hurricanes but have had no luck. Do you know where such a rarity might be found or is it back to scratch building? Any help much appreciated. Paul
  3. Nick - You have the patience of a saint and modelling skills that leave most of us gaping. I'm a newbie to the BM site, although I got back in the modelling groove a dozen years ago. Among the projects I completed since then was the Hachette 1:8 scale Triplane which a mate had started but lost interest in. The Hasegawa kit seems to be slightly better on detail than the Hachette offering but both kits take the easy but innacurate route on lots of the detail stuff. Being obsessed with "accurate" detailing, I soon discovered how sketchy and innaccurate the basic Hachette kit was, with the result that I bodged a load of scratch built add-ons and relacement bits to try to steer the finished article towards something like the real thing in "miniature". There's a post on BM with various pics of the completed model. My efforts don't compare with what you've accomplished, but I guess the sheer size of a 1:8 scale Triplane mindboggles most people who look at it. In my eyes, yours is a real triumph against adversity! Paul
  4. Hi Steve - Real shame you've been forced to "dump" the mystery 109 but, as you say, you can at least see how mottling comes together. I've not yet built the Airfix 109 but at the very least you can choose your mark, i.e. E-1/3/4 with the way they've moulded that kit. I've got a couple lying around for several months of rainy days. Lots of luck. Paul
  5. 15th September 1940

    tc2324 - I looked up Holmes' combat report and it appears that he had just attacked another Dornier but broke away from that and climbed to approach another Do 215 (sic) which he attacked twice from the beam and the,n a third time when the crew baled out. He then attacked from the port beam and, as he passed over the e/a, a jar shook his right wing and the Dornier went into an uncontrollable spin, after which he baled out. This seems to suggest that he made at least 2 attacks from below during which his screen was splattered with oil, and the final attack was from the left, perhaps in a banking right turn when the tip of his right wing severed the delicate tail structure of the "flying pencil". That seems to be what the contemporary report suggested and I wonder whether the Ch 4 documentary may have stimulated his recollection to be slightly more descriptive than what actually occurred. My own feeling is that the combat report was more likely to have been closer to the truth since I guess the attack on London caught most of the controllers and pilots a bit on the hop, so emotions were running pretty high. Difficult to be too empiracal and we'll possibly never know for sure. As far as your tableau is concerned, perhaps Holmes Hurri banking sharply over the rear area of the fuselage severing the Dornier's tail section and a certain amount of the Hurri's right wing tip would be difficult to argue with. Whatever you choose, it'll be an interesting one! Paul
  6. 15th September 1940

    Dave - Most of the accounts that I've tried to put together to knit what seem unrelated accounts of the BoB encounters draw on so many varied sources that I really can't recall whether there was any one source that gave me the chance to construct what may have been the circumstances of this KG 76 a/c's demise. All of us Johnny-come-latelies owe a great debt to the ground breakers like yourself and Peter Cornwell who've produced a well of information that is fantastic background for those interested enough to go looking. I can't focus on the photo of the a/c's wing and where it was published, but I'll dig through my records and see what I can find. Interestingly, in Nigel Parker's Vol 4 of the Luftwaffe Crash Archive from Simon Parry's Red Kite Books, there are 2 photos of what appears to be the right fin with the pink stripe horizontal beneath the hakenkreuz (p 431) and the left fin with the pink stripe vertical from the base of the rudder to about 3/4 of the rudder height and positioned slightly inboard of the rudder trailing edge at the rear and just touching the hakenkreuz at its front edge (p 433). Or maybe I'm kidding myself! tc2324 - it's an absorbing project anyway and I'll look forward to seeing how you display the two together. Lots of luck. Paul
  7. 15th September 1940

    You may find interesting the following extract from one of my books on the BoB (Bitter Harvest Volume 2, p.153) which was the result of my own and many others' research on this KG 76 Do 17. It doesn't help your camo colour options but perhaps lends a background flavour to the story behind Ray Holmes' position during these historic times. +++++++++++++ While not perhaps central to the tales of the casualties that came down in Kent and its surrounding coastal waters, the Victoria Station Dornier is interesting for at least three reasons. Firstly, it was probably over northwest Kent that Oberleutnant Robert Zehbe initially encountered the Hurricanes that had been sent to follow up on the initial interception by 72 and 92 squadrons’ Spitfires. One of Zehbe’s engines had been performing below its best, so the strong northwest wind, against which all of Lindmayer’s bombers were struggling, was particularly difficult for this 1stStaffel bomber. It had fallen inexorably behind the remainder of the tight defensive formation that afforded welcome mutual protection. As a straggler, Zehbe’s Dornier became a magnet for all the British fighter pilots that came across it, offering a lower risk of concentrated return fire. For this reason as much as any other, Zehbe’s Friedrich Heinrich (coded F1+FH) eventually became the subject of at least nine RAF pilots’ claims, perhaps one of the extreme examples of multiple claims that were far from uncommon. Hurricanes from 310 Squadron, the Czech unit that was part of Bader’s Duxford wing, seem to have sealed the bomber’s fate when one of their attacks left the Dornier with its left engine in flames. They were followed by Spitfires from 609 Squadron which had been temporarily frustrated as they were forced to wait for the Hurricanes to complete their attacks before the Spitfires could have a go. The other interesting facet of this particular aircraft’s demise was that by the time it was finally damaged, causing its tail section to break off and triggering the final spin that broke off the outer wing sections, it was flying on auto-pilot. The surviving crew had by then baled out, including Zehbe himself. His fate was doubly unfortunate. He had already been wounded and then he was attacked by outraged civilians as he dangled in his parachute from power lines near the Oval in Kennington. He died of his injuries the following day, the whole violent incident described by a lorry driver from Streatham. When the siren sounded, our bus came to a halt and I took cover in a doorway opposite the Oval underground station. Above us there were a lot of aircraft and a dogfight started, one of the bombers disintegrated in the air and three crewmen baled out. One of the crew came down beside the underground station. His parachute caught over the electric power cables and he ended up dangling just above the ground. People came from all directions, shouting “Kill him, kill him!” They pulled him down, they went crazy. Some women arrived carrying knives and pokers and they went straight in and attacked him. I felt sorry for the young lad but there was nothing one could do. In the end, an army truck arrived and the half-dozen soldiers had to fight their way through the crowd to get to him. They put him in the back of the truck and drove off. The final interesting element of this action is the apparent controversy over the final moments before the Dornier’s tail section was severed. Sergeant Ray Holmes of 504 Squadron is acknowledged to have given the final coup de grâce, and popular belief would suggest that, out of ammunition, Holmes purposely brought his Hurricane in to ram the Dornier, gently moving up against the tail section of the German bomber. The Dornier fell into its terminal spin, as did Holmes’ Hurricane from which he baled out, landing safely not far from Victoria Station. The confusion seems to lie in Sergeant Holmes’ combat report where he reported that he’d made at least four attacks on the Dornier. The last of the German aircraft’s crew baled out as he made his third attack and, during the last pass, he felt a bump which caused his aircraft to fall into an uncontrollable spin. Over the years this apparent unintended “bump” seems to have been transformed into an intentional collision. Whatever the facts, Sergeant Holmes was clearly performing with the courage and determination that most of Fighter Command’s pilots showed, often several times each day, throughout the hectic days of that 1940 summer. ++++++++++++++ I hope this doesn't detract from Ray Holmes' bravery and dedication, something where I'm sure I'd have fallen short at the age he was in September 1940. Cheers Paul
  8. Another Eduard Bf110C in 1/48

    Christer - Looks like this is another thread I'll retain for when I get round to Eduard's 110 D which I've had sitting on the shelf for a bit. It probably has many of the same issues that the 110 C kit has so I'll eagerly look forward to your progress and tips on the pitfalls. For what has often been maligned for its shortcomings in the BoB, I always think it's a graceful, sleek machine that usually works well as a model. Lots of luck. Paul
  9. Steve - My boy does in dealer training for all sorts of motor manufacturers. Is that what you're up to in Bristol? Back to the important stuff You're obviousy not short of subjects for the 70/71 shades. I've posted one Bf 110 C and one Ju 87 B with 70/71 (see below) which might be interesting when you get round to those projects. I'd ignored the fact that you'd pre-shaded your E-4 with marker pen but it wouldn't have meant anything to me since I've never tried that, for good reason as it seems from the advice you've received. I find that once you've finished the paint job, glossed it in some way and got the decals how you want them, a bit of thinned dark umber oil paint lightly teased into the panel lines and joints that you may want to highlight works a treat. Some more skilled than me may highlight individual panels with a lighter spray over the central panel area or a darker colour around the outside of the panel areas before the gloss coat and transfers, but that's a job too far for me. Again it's that horses for courses thing judging time against detail result. You're probably well aware that Bf 109s (and Bf 110S) were built in much the same way as the models you have, i.e, with the fuselage halves joined top and bottom with a visible join line both over and under. Hence it's not accurate to fill these lines in - they should be visible. I understand that on the topside, one half slightly overlapped the other (perhaps underneath as well), but I've never tried to reproduce this so it's up to you. If you have the time, check out Bf 110 day fighter swansong and Airfix 1:24 Scale 1940 Ju 87 B, both earlier posts I put up. Cheers Paul
  10. You'll need RLM 02 at some point anyway. 70/71 was the earlier camo scheme for 109s and was still used for most bombers as well as Bf 110s for a long time during the BoB and later. Like the spoon idea. Paul
  11. Steve - the upper colours are RLM 02 (the lighter grey-green which was also the main colour for the internal cockpit, and and inside the wheel wells, with the darker colour being RLM 71 dark green (dunkelgrun). The pattern of the splinter is one of many similar patterns with the fuselage and tail plane as shown but wing uppers with various slightly different patterns. You pays yer money and takes yer choice unless you're doing a specific a/c with contemporary pics to guide you. Go for whichever you prefer. I don't think any of them are necessarily wrong. Cheers Paul
  12. Steve, For what they're worth, my feeling on thee points you raised are as follows:- 1) Underside colour - RLM 65 is the official colour. Nothing wrong with that, but I've always liked to think it was a bit greyer/darker than I imagined it might have been on a/c in the field. I tend to use Tamiya spray AS-5 but find it difficult these days to find replacement sprays so I've mixed up my own combo which essentially adds a bit of white to the oob RLM 65 range. All a matter of taste I think. 2) The wing leading edge division between upper/lower colours normally follows the natural line but there are many exceptions to this where the u/s colour is randomly sprayed over the front bit of the top colour in a non uniform way, the thought being that this might break up the a/c outline from the front when attacking - I think. Straight line is perhaps the simplest way. 3) Wing/fuselage division. I usually follow the curved, raised and rivetted fairing at each wing root, with wing camo outboard and the fuselage RLM 65 extending down to the top join of this fairing. 4) The fuselage spine division varies. Most JG 26 pics I've seen show the dividing line between upper and lower camo on the fuselage starting aft of the cockpit about halfway between the bottom edge of the canopy and the high point of the spine. As with all things like this, there are variations with the division both higher and lower but the mid point seems as good as anything. At the fin end, the line seems to finish under the root fairing of the fin, often curving upward slightly to cover the bottom part of the fin leading edge. Your post will undoubtedly stimulate a rash of similar comments from all thse who want to see you making the best job of this you can. Paul
  13. Troy's right, the BoB Emils are addictive. I've built 5 in 1:48 scale and they're just the ones that were brought down around my home town in Sussex. Loads of options for the ones that came down around Kent and the London outskirts. Someone suggested spraying white on top of the primer when you're doing the yellow id areas. It saves having to put so many coats of yellow to get decent coverage. It works. Despite your reluctance to post your builds, this looks like it'll be worth it so we'd probably all be interested to see how you complete it, whatever subject you choose. Happy fiddling! Paul
  14. Hi again Steve, As lots of the guys have said, there's loads of alternatives out there that you can make fit the model you're doing. You're the one who'll end up with the ultra critical eye so you set your own parameters. As Dave said, Gerhard Schoepfel's a/c is shown in lots of b&w pics and it's difficult to imagine the id yellow markings weren't extended to the whole rudder as Aug 1940 came to an end. Kacha's Luftwaffe page (www.luftwaffe.cz) has the histories of all the individual German aces with lists of their claims so you can figure out how many victory marks were on the rudder depending on what time during the Bob suits the model you're making. As commander of III Gruppe JG 26 he would have had an E-4 with the square canopy, cannons, and probably a yellow rudder with 22 victory markings by 1 Nov 1940 and little or no mottling (or not enough to worry about). Lots of luck and perhaps avoid the detail demon if you can. Paul
  15. Hi again Steve, I'm not sure where Antb got the Tiger's emblem for 4/JG 26. The emblem on my pictured model is 1:32 scale as is the model. When I did a 1:48 scale model of the same a/c, Cutting Edge used to have the markings for this a/c on a sheet that I think was called Augsburg Egles Part 1 but I have to say the Staffel Tiger head emblem on that sheet was (in my opinion) more beige than yellow (see the diorama pic further down) or what I chose which is a slightly orangey shade rather than what looks like RLM 04 on Antb's model. I have to say, I'm possibly a bit anoraky about W Nr 1190 and I ended up painting my own emblem on a bigger scale and then reducing it down to 1:32 scale for my model. I plumped for my slightly orangey background colour after some close examination of shade differences on b&w pics of the a/c while it was sent on a tour round N America where there is a clear difference between the "custard" yellow of the cowling and the staffel emblem colour (check out the Luftwaffe Crash Archive pics for 30/8/40). If you decide this is the one you want to base your kit on, I could perhaps send you a few bits of waterslide decal paper with some of these reduced to 1:48 scale. They'd be on white decal paper where you'd need to trim carefully around the image to avoid the white background showing when you put the decal on the fuselage. This is how I did the emblem on the pic I posted in my earlier comment. You wouldn't need this is you've found a suitable decal sheet with the markings for this a/c, but I couldn't in 1:32 scale so I made my own. You should also note that White 4 (W Nr 1190) had the old style canopy like the Bf 109 E-3, even though it had been field-modified to E-4 specs and had the uprated DB 601N engine and wasn't equipped with a bomb rack. Here are the pics of 2 other versions I've made which perhaps illustrate some of my comments on the emblem colour. The first is as close as I could get to the way the a/c in Duxford looks as a complete a/c, with the emblem coloured as the restorers finished it. The model's emblem is hand-painted so looks a bit rough. The next is the first version I made (1:48 scale) with the emblem from the Cutting Edge decal sheet I mentioned. It's set in a diorama base somewhere in N France. You probably have reached saturation point by now on this particular a/c, but this is a close up of the staffel emblem as applied to the restoration up at Duxford. I copied this as best I could on the model in the second picture but have since decided on close examination of the contemporary b&w images that the colour's a bit too browny/orange. You may decide to go for a different a/c of course. It's difficult to judge but the canopy under your masking looks more like a typical E-4 style with the heavier squared frame rather than the E-3 style of either W Nr 1190 or the 9/JG 26 a/c you've got in the profile. I guess it depends how accurate you need to be for your own satisfaction. As you can guess, I suffer from the "detail devil". Whatever you decided, lots of luck. All these 109s have fascinating camo patterns and I've also yet to master the mottling in scale. Cheers. Paul
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