warhawk Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) I have a few questions about Mackie's Tempest (EDM, serial SN228): - Did it have DH or Rotol propeller? - Was the swastika scoreboard present in wartime or added later with the unit badge? - What was the color of droptanks? I see a very dark color on some B/W photos, but... - What should be the appropriate color for wheel wells: silver, int. green or underside color? Regards, Aleksandar Edited August 4, 2011 by warhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Just check Eduard's web page. Their recent reboxing of the tempest in 1/48 could answer a few questions, as there is an option for Mackie's aircraft. And usualy, their subjects are well researched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 The Eduard color guide also states that scoreboard was added after the war... What intrigues me is the profile I posted (probbably from 2nd TAF vol 3), which shows them before the surrender. Also, I have found a very bad photo which shows (I think) something fuzzy in that area. Could be the scoreboard, could be just an exhaust stain etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Fox Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 In 'Spitfire Leader' by Max Avery and Christopher Shores, Grub Street 1999, which is the biography of Evan Mackie on pg 162 the authors state that SN228 had the Wing Commanders pennant and a score board on May 3rd when SN228 was damaged in the explosion after attacking a train. One thing about Mackie was that he liked thing 'right' so his aircraft would have been kept clean and would be as per regulations. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 In 'Spitfire Leader' by Max Avery and Christopher Shores, Grub Street 1999, which is the biography of Evan Mackie on pg 162 the authors state that SN228 had the Wing Commanders pennant and a score board on May 3rd when SN228 was damaged in the explosion after attacking a train. One thing about Mackie was that he liked thing 'right' so his aircraft would have been kept clean and would be as per regulations. Hope this helps I disagree. What it says in 'Spitfire Leader' is that the sortie in SN228 on 3 May 1945 was his first (and only, I believe) in that aircraft. The authors go on to say that that the aircraft bore the standard camouflage of the time which it then quotes as DG and MSG uppers and light sea grey lower surfaces (if it was standard it should be DG/OG/MSG). It then says the initials 'EDM' were in 'light grey' and the " a wing commander's pennant below the windscreen, together with (eventually) 25 black crosses". The "eventually" could mean it had an incomplete scoreboard ... or that the scoreboard in its entirety was added later. The scoreboard was actually 24 swastikas and a single Italian marking. Records of SN228 shows that it was reported at 83 GSU (then at Dunsfold and responsible for preparing and maintaining a pool of aircraft for 83 Group, which included 122 Wing) the previous day - would there have been time to paint the scoreboard? Perhaps, perhaps not. To answer Aleksandar's questions ... It had a Rotol propeller. Scoreboard in wartime? maybe, but if so it was only 'wartime' for one 'op'. The two photos at the the top of p.527 in 2TAF/3 were scanned from original negatives which I believe were taken at the same time. Those are the photos on which the profile was based but I do not have a specific date for the photos. It would seem that they are earlier than the other known photos as all these feature the 122 Wing badge on the fin. The later photos also show that the spinner was a changed from standard 'Night' to a light color. Eduard seem to have plumped for yellow but I do not know what that was based upon. Drop tanks - the earliest photo shows it with apparently darker than normal tanks, colour not known. Later photos show apparently MSG tanks. Wheel wells - no documentary evidence but study of photos leads me to think interior grey-green. And a question for Alexsandar. If the profile (which is mine) which you attached to your query did not come from '2TAF/3' where did you find it? CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith in the uk Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Camouflage & Markings number 4 Hawker Typhoon & Tempest page 78. All Typhoon / Tempest aircraft inside of undercarrage doors and wheel wells were Aluminium or natural metal , also were the tail wheel doors oleo leg and wheel hubs. With the introduction of the clear one piece canopy this area ( cockpit ) was painted Night Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Camouflage & Markings number 4 Hawker Typhoon & Tempest page 78. All Typhoon / Tempest aircraft inside of undercarrage doors and wheel wells were Aluminium or natural metal , also were the tail wheel doors oleo leg and wheel hubs. With the introduction of the clear one piece canopy this area ( cockpit ) was painted Night Black. I agree with these statements for the Typhoon but there are colour photos of Tempest IIs which seem to show greeny grey on the inside of the doors. Black and white photos of Tempest Vs show the inside of the doors to be a darker shade than the outer (MSG) doors. CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) If the profile (which is mine) which you attached to your query did not come from '2TAF/3' where did you find it? Found it here http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/572/9/2 It had a Rotol propeller. The one with the pointy tips? I wanted to do that one, cause it looks cooler to me, but it doesn't look like it to me based on the bottom photo from page 527 '2TAF/3'... Anyway, thanks everyone for the info, I will have to think again whether to use scoreboard or not (Academy botched it, so probably it will be omitted), And for the wheel wells Aluminum seems best to me... I heard that the cockpit was painted half int. green, and (upper) half black. This makes sense to me possibly for some refurbished machines... Regards, Aleksandar Edited August 5, 2011 by warhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 The RAF Museum's Mk.V had green wheel wells before it was rebuilt, and the Mk.V, here at Booker, has an all-green cockpit, even the seat; note that the Tempest did not have the Sutton harness, but the parachute-box-type, lovingly known as the "Q" type, probably still with tan straps, though. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) The RAF Museum's Mk.V had green wheel wells before it was rebuilt, and the Mk.V, here at Booker, has an all-green cockpit, even the seat; note that the Tempest did not have the Sutton harness, but the parachute-box-type, lovingly known as the "Q" type, probably still with tan straps, though.Edgar You obviously haven't been to Specsavers Edgar; the Booker Tempest had black cockpit interior above the tubular framework. CT Found it here http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/572/9/2 The one with the pointy tips? I wanted to do that one, cause it looks cooler to me, but it doesn't look like it to me based on the bottom photo from page 527 '2TAF/3'... I heard that the cockpit was painted half int. green, and (upper) half black. This makes sense to me possibly for some refurbished machines... Regards, Aleksandar The spinner shape is definitely Rotol. The later Typhoons and Tempests had green/black cockpit walls on the production line. CT Edited August 5, 2011 by Chris Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You obviously haven't been to Specsavers Edgar; the Booker Tempest had black cockpit interior above the tubular framework. The decorators had been in, by the time I got to see it. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 The decorators had been in, by the time I got to see it.Edgar Come to think of it Edgar, it might have been 'Hint of Night'. CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted May 11, 2013 Author Share Posted May 11, 2013 I believe I have found two photos that, in my opinion, prove that SN228 did have a scoreboard added prior to the end of the war. I assume both were taken at the same time (nearly identical quality and no weathering present, unlike pics of the postwar machine, where there are scratches around cockpit door...) Both were sourced from Ventura Publications page Any opinions on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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