rob Lyttle Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) There were some Hurricanes around the place that were painted silver and looked quite smart, but it seems there was but one airframe that got the full buffed up natural metal finish treatment. V6787 was with the Rhodesian Airforce, and as I understand it, took part in a Battle of Britain memorial flight in September 45. Other Hurricanes got the silver paint treatment, but this one - the squadron leaders plane- got the works. I can't resist a nmf build, and having picked up a kit... I came up with a plan to avoid the dreaded brown and green splodges. Somehow, I managed to find one other picture of the little beauty, on the ground at " RAF Cranbourne, Rhodesia", and bless me, it portrays the starboard side!! It was meant to be, right?? Edited June 9, 2017 by rob Lyttle spellings! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 There was another option, the one and only Australian Hurricane, And some pics look convincing regarding the polished metal ,If that is silver paint on the wings and front fuselage, it's a paint job many modellers would like to be able to produce! But the info was not unanimous on polished metal, so the Rhodesian bird it is. Maybe I'll just have to do another one! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Hi Rob  a look here http://modelingmadness.com/splfeat/kr/has48b.htm  says the Hasegawa 'South African' boxing has the De Havilland Hurricane propeller only,  you need a 'Spitfire Rotol' see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/  This is an alternate part in several kits, both Hurricanes and Spitfires.  Give me a PM if you don't  have one as i know I have spares!  It is the  right prop unit for the Australian Hurricane,  and FWIW, in the shot you posted above, i'd say that was polished natural metal and painted fabric!!   note the change in tone between the metal panels and fabric covered 'doghouse'...  so maybe the pic of this derelict has the aluminium oxidise and thus resemble the Aluminium dope?  It  should be noted that even on camouflaged aircraft the metal and fabric can appear different eg this is an 85 Sq plane in May 1940, with fabric wings,  note the tone change between metal and fabric, both on the wing, and the Dark Earth on the fuselage and nose.  HTH T   Edited June 9, 2017 by Troy Smith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 10, 2017 Author Share Posted June 10, 2017 Thanks for the feedback, Troy. What I have in the box is 1 prop and 2 spinners, one bigger than the other. 12 hours ago, Troy Smith said: the De Havilland Hurricane propeller only, Â you need a 'Spitfire Rotol'Â Is the big spinner the one to use? When you say "propeller" , are you just talking about the different types of spinner? I read a good part of the info before my brain shut down - Â so I know there are subtle variations in blade shape etc, but the spinner is the main thing, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Spinner & blades. As Troy mentioned, the Rhodie Hurricane has a Rotol prop with a spinner that was originally designed for a Spitfire, Hurricane Rotol spinners were slightly smaller diameter & more pointed.The Rotol props are wider at the base than the the De Havilland ones, which have shorter pointed spinners whereas the Spitfire spinners ate quite rounded. The link to the Hurricane props thread is a good one to digest. The Aussie Hurricane is DH, the Rhodie one is Spitfire Rotol. Steve. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, rob Lyttle said: Thanks for the feedback, Troy. What I have in the box is 1 prop and 2 spinners, one bigger than the other. Is the big spinner the one to use? When you say "propeller" , are you just talking about the different types of spinner? I read a good part of the info before my brain shut down -  so I know there are subtle variations in blade shape etc, but the spinner is the main thing, right?  erm, no.  I suggest posting a photo of the parts. The Hase boxing you  show should only have the DH Hurricane type (that is  what the Hase boxings link shows)  The blades on the DH units look to be the same (or very similar) , the Rotol blades on the Mk.I are very distinctive, I  had not occurred to me that the prop and spinners thread might be a bit  much, here's the relevant part, with the really relevant parts in bold  Quote The De Havilland unit initiallly fitted to the Hurricane was intended for the Spitfire, which has a slightly larger nose ring, so the spinner base is wide for Hurricanes nose. I surmise that these unts were available, and as they made a big difference to performance were fitted and retorfitted to Hurricanes as they were available. De Havilland then developed a spinner specifically for the Hurricane, which was then fitted. From what information I have and discussion here this happened in early 1940 during the N**** serial aircraft, which was the 2nd Hawker production batch. One other point is the DH unit had metal blades. these two shots from the Ducimus Hurricane Camo and Markings guide, N2358 has the Spitfire DH unit, N2479 has the Hurricane DH unit. As can be seen the Spitfire DH is wider and blunter, and overhangs the nose ring, the Hurricane DH is more pointed and is correct diameter.  The Rotol unit has blades made out of Jablo, a compressed wood composite, and was lighter than the DH unit.  Again, as developed for the Spitfire it is too large for the Hurricane nose ring.  510 sq in France, May 1940, shows blade shape very well.   To sum up The Australian plane has the DH Hurricane type fitted.(this should be in the hase kit) V6787 has the Spitfire Rotol fitted, (I have a spare)  HTH T PS Being typed while Steve posted. Edited June 10, 2017 by Troy Smith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 10, 2017 Author Share Posted June 10, 2017 Here's what I got oob, The prop came on the same sprue as the red one,. So early Mk1 deHavilland, ie suit the Aussie plane, yea? The other bigger spinner came on a different sprue and marked not for use along with later tail wheel etc. presumably for a boxing of a later version. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Just the  way Hasegawa divvy up their sprues (oh  that they'd just gives us the lot...) That is the 'bullet' Rotol as used mostly on the Mk.II  (see link) which was the 'actually designed for the Hurricane' Rotol spinner  The red painted one is the DH Hurricane unit,as are the prop blades.  cheers T 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) Hi all, sorry for the delay. Life,eh! Troy, that sounds like neither are quite correct, and I need the spinner that looks too big and the wider blades prop. I'll message you. Any body any ideas about the pennant on the starboard cockpit side? I've got the port side pennant sorted, but colours for this... ..... little decor would be most welcome! Thought you might like the interior design in the KFC in Southampton; Good effort from Kentucky Fried , eh? Edited June 13, 2017 by rob Lyttle KFC 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galgos Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Here's another Hurricane belonging to the RATG for your information Rob.  What's interesting is that the former camouflage outlines can just be seen underneath the veneer of silver paint.  The pennant on both sides of V6787 is a Group Captain's pennant I believe, view here: http://www.flyingcolours.org/product/royal-airforce-flags/group-captain.html   Max 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 Hi Max, thanks for that. The pennant on the web site is what I've sussed out for the port side, but this.... .... just looks different. Might be the way the light has caught it. I hope they made more of an effort painting the boss's fabric and covered the camo properly with a second coat - that's going to be my cover story, anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galgos Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I'm 100% sure it's just an effect of the light Rob. Â My father was a flying instructor, latterly staff pilot with the RATG and flew Hurricane AG244. Â I've got a half built model of her which I'm hoping to complete before too long. Max 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 I hear what you're saying, Max. I reckon that is the answer to the picture riddle. You could well be able to help me with this - what does RATG stand for? Training group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galgos Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Rhodesian Air Training Group Rob. My avatar is the Group's badge featuring one of the fabled stone falcons of the kings of Zimbabwe. Max 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Construction roars ahead. As well as separated rudder and elevators, I managed to get a bit of movement on the ailerons, and got the flaps out of the lower wing panel These are new separation ribs before the top panels go on. I didn't go over the top with the cockpit and internals - the canopy and screen are one piece so it's going to be canopy closed I'm afraid. Getting some foil on, I had already omitted the Volkes filter in favour of the classic nose shape,  but realised it had to go on. Cut the panel out, and fitted the big ugly thing instead (!)  Edited June 15, 2017 by rob Lyttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) On 14/06/2017 at 08:47, galgos said: Â Here's another Hurricane belonging to the RATG for your information Rob. Â It looks like this one doesn't have a mast either - the line in the photo I think is a road on the ground. The Aussie plane does have a mast. No radios in the RATG?? Edited June 15, 2017 by rob Lyttle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 On 2017-6-14 at 08:47, galgos said: Here's another Hurricane belonging to the RATG for your information Rob.  What's interesting is that the former camouflage outlines can just be seen underneath the veneer of silver paint.  The pennant on both sides of V6787 is a Group Captain's pennant I believe, view here: http://www.flyingcolours.org/product/royal-airforce-flags/group-captain.html   Max Rob, T9531 has a mast, though I can see how it  could look like a road now you mention it, while V6787 does not appear to have a mast, though at this late date may have a whip attenna?  At least some of this was discussed in "All the Hurricane questions" thread, including the link to the original RATG  thread, but as cross linking is always handy T9531 looks to be a pretty even coat of aluminium dope, while AF993  below does look rather patchy  I'm  surprised no scans of AG244 have appeared on the the net.  one point that may well have been lost, in this post by Max/Galgos http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234950889-hurricanes-of-the-ratg/&do=findComment&comment=1474627  Quote Thank you gents for your help to date. Perhaps I can put my query into context. My father was trained as a pilot in 1943 in the Rhodesian Air Training Group and he flew one of the Hurricanes in March 1945 (the 12th to be precise doing an oxygen climb to 20,000') though he didn't record for some strange reason its serial number in his logbook. He took many photographs whilst out there but only one has a Hurricane indistinctly in the background. He was retained out there as a flying instructor at Norton, the CFI was Ted Shipman who formerly had fought in the BoB. I've been in contact with Ted's son, John who has sent me the following serial numbers from his father's logbook, perhaps they may help shed some light on the matter? Below is also a recount from Ted about the Hurricanes.  Hurricane serial numbers flown by Ted Shipman at CFS RAF Norton between 6th July 1944 and 15th September 1945. (note ? indicates missing digit or letter) HK 941 Z 6989 oxygen climb to 27,000ft 12/3/1944 T 9651 Z 4040 T 9531 V 8926 Gold Cup Flypast 21/10/1944 ? 9531 N 2477 ? 257 ? 6787 Battle of Britain flypast over Salisbury 15/9/1944  Note "?6787"  is almost certainly V6787, and the in flight shot is the 15 Sep 1945 ( I assume the above is typo)  cheers T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galgos Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Somebody mention AG244?: Â Â and here is its latest iteration flown by my flying instructor Clive Davidson: Â Â Max 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Just for clarity the "AG244" flying  now is a Canadian XII Quote Hurricane XII RCAF5487 - G-CBOE (airworthy) at Phoenix Aero Services (was Classic Aero Engineering). In the colours of Rhodesian Air Force "AG244" http://members.madasafish.com/~d_hodgkinson/hawker-guide-UK.htm  the real AG244 is a  Canadian X, the longer nose of the Merlin XX powered aircraft is visible clearly in the two photos Max posted. cheers T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Love the information and insight that gets shared on these BM forums! Here's me, tackling the 1942 markings. Upper wing is ok. Fuselage - Then the Aussie roundel, left over from a spitfire build - andthe red centre from? think it was a SE5a... Same under wing, without the need for the Swedish yellow base of course...  Edited June 16, 2017 by rob Lyttle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 16, 2017 Author Share Posted June 16, 2017 It is noticeable in the pictures of Hurricanes (and Spitfires) on the ground, the flaps are never left open, or dropping like a P51 loosing hydraulic pressure. It seems my only realistic option, if I want to build with the flaps deployed, is with a fitter performing repair or maintenance. They are a nice thing, though,- that little wedge shaped space between the inner and outer panels compensates perfectly for the slight change in the hinge line, and results in a perfect parallel gap when the flaps are right down. Not that I've built the insides of the bays, apart from the rib spacers. But I do like to get some movement on moving control surfaces when I can. I think it animates the model - brings it to life a little. Soooo....... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 A fitter peering in makes dropped flaps believable. Â Note the insides of the UC well and flaps would be aluminium paint. Â PM me your address if you still want a Spitfire Rotol prop/spinner. Â cheers T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galgos Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 7 hours ago, rob Lyttle said: ......I do like to get some movement on moving control surfaces when I can. I think it animates the model - brings it to life a little.  I'm 100% with you there Rob, I find it almost impossible to make a model without the rudder, elevators and perhaps flaps out of alignment for exactly the same reason, bringing character and life to a model aircraft.  I also like to include figures, either ground crew, aircrew or perhaps both. Max 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 16, 2017 Author Share Posted June 16, 2017 8 hours ago, Troy Smith said:  Note the insides of the UC well and flaps would be aluminium paint Awwww shoot... as the yanks say! Gimme a minute. Wheel wells too? 😠Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said: Awwww shoot... as the yanks say! Gimme a minute. Wheel wells too? 😠yep.  You could argue that they got grey-green at an overhaul,  but from unrestored airframes,(there are 3, the Finnish one, and two salvaged in Russia)  apart from cockpit walls and rear bulkhead ALL the rest of the internals was aluminium paint, cockpit framework, gun bays, engine bay, wheel wells... and in the best Blue Peter tradition, here's one I made earlier  from maybe 1942 there was a switch, but V6787 as built would be the above... there's another post where I used a load of wrecked Hurricane in France,  all showing the above. cheers T 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now