Totally Mad Olivier Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Thank you very much Jeremy. Very pleased to see you follow us, all crazy guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Dear Olivier,regarding the Color for your leaf sprigs:Look to page 1 of the gangshow thread! You can see the Protar Version in the instruction booklet.Maybe you have still enough time to use iron sripes,heat them over a gas flame and dive them into oil. They will get a wonderful purple-deep blue Color! Many greetings! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 I want to add some thoughts regarding the look of our Radiator case on our new Picture.In my opinion Bordino had a Crash( maybe during quaifying) and the mechanics simply did not have time enough to fix this correctly.Same goes for the 3 louvres over the rear axle. I also don´t believe,that grill and case were a unity regarding our car,I mentioned this regarding a new bodywork shown an drawing 2, There a screws ,for Fixing the grill to it´s case! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 14 hours ago, NickD said: Clearly there is a great difference between the "looking" I do and the "seeing" the rest of you achieve. (...) The fact you all "see" rather than "look" is really helpful. 14 hours ago, NickD said: The steering wheel in picture 9 appears to have its flat edge vertical but the wheels are straight? In my opinion you are seeing, as well. Great observation! 13 hours ago, Hannes said: I always believed ,a new bodywork was provided for the race. 9 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: On a PM, CC suggested, without remembering where he found that information (if I understood well) that ther should have been 17 copies of 806. Only one 806 body and four 406 engines were manufactured. I think I read that on the Italian Wikipedia on this car, as well as one other source that I don't remember. 9 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Roy, I don't find back where you suggested that, but I am not sure to see the number 15 at the rear of the car on the photo 3 (especially the "1"is totally missing, and the 5 would be very large, I think it is an artefact due to the old photo). That could just as well be, I wasn't sure. 9 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Maybe the book we are waiting for (did you get it?) will bring us something, but I am a bit sceptical... I hope the book will feature a side drawing of the engine. The book wasn't even sent yet. 9 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: If the editor in chief allows me, no problem, I will post my article. What I meant was, send us a scan through PM. I don't think you'll be allowed to post the article in this thread. 9 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: I sent him an mail yesterday, in which I suggested to publish an entire book, because an article can't pretend covering all the aspects of such a project! Now that would be a great thing. I also hope someone makes a preliminary overview of welcome changes to the kit. 9 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Crimson Humbrol 20 is the color I chose, but it is darker than Codognato's poster, closer from the box-art color. As a matter of coincidence I tried Humbol 20 on my latest finished project, the BMW 507. It didn't work for some reason... can't remember (tried many colours). Eventually I used a Faskolor paint which is beautiful in tone, but which was very very difficult to use. It isn't meant for airbrushing and if you do, you have to use (I think) 6 bar according to Faskolor: ridiculous. Eventually I got an 'okay' result, nothing spectacular but I'm happy to have fought this terrible paint with reasonable result. I swore I'd never use that paint again.... 9 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: what does it mean, Gimp? That's a software program, like Photoshop only open source. 7 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Roy, my opinion is that, on these photos, the car was NOT YET PAINTED. That's why the body is so light. Good thinking! Taking another look, I agree with you. That means that I will make my version after photos 1, 2 and 3 were taken, after the car was painted, but before the race. 7 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: The painters created the contrast by painting the body with masks to avoid painting the grille, that was remained steel. Look the inversion of light and dark colors we have between these 1A and 2 photos and ALL the photos made at the race moment. For example, the rod in front of the grille, that seemed to be nearly black, is now much lighter than the body, especially on this photo 9, but also on 7A, fe! You're right. 7 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: LEAF SPRINGS: Thanks for sharing your workflow. It will definitely come in handy. 7 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: considering that, as Roy, my 806 takes place a few days before the race (as him, I won't add the 15 number on the bonnets, only the painted ones at the rear) Same here. Although I think at one point they added the linnen 15 numbers. But for me an extra reason not to add them as a permanent fix is that I don't know what they looked like exactly and what material they were made of. Probably, the way I am (can't choose), I will make them anyway but leave them detachable. I will cut out the '1' and the '5' out of a handkerchief or something like that, stiffen them with wood glue in the desired shape, add a tiny anchor to their backs, and simply hook them to the bonnet louvres. When I want to see them I leave them on, when I don't want to see them I'll simply remove them (carefully!). Feel welcome to try that also (so that I can see if it works out okay haha) 7 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: You wanted to go to Torino, you should see that with Roy... When I'll have confirmation from Fiat I will definitely pick this up with Sam. My hope was to fix a date (first week of January, as that was the only period in which both my girlfriend and I would have been able to fly to Torino). If that had been possible, I'd have contacted Sam right after, to try to make an meeting and hopefully search the archives jointly. But now we'll have to await Fiat's decision. Something to take into account: the museum is only open on Sunday (10:00 to 19:00). That means I would be there at 10:00 and leave around 19:00, hopefully getting what I'd be looking for. If the first week of January would not be possible, I'd be glad to set a date together with Sam. 6 hours ago, CrazyCrank said: la photo postée par Square, en la comparant avec cellles qui porte le n° 9 dans le premier post de Roy qui ouvre ce thread, semble être un surensemble de la photo 9, il suffit de constater qu'on a le même type avec un long manteau, les mains dans les poches, que l'on voit en entier sur la photo de Square et à motieé sur celle de Roy" En fait rien d'étonnant, car Roy a modifié l'image de Square, en la réduisant sous un éditeur de dessins ("The Gimp") pour la recadrer, et l'a incorporée dans son premier post en l'éditant a posteriori That's correct. 6 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Now, let's not forget that the race day was a rainy day, it may explain too the extreme brightness on this photo 9, but also photos 4 and 7A... Nice thought. 2 hours ago, Jnkm13 said: Yes, definitely still following all these posts. Amazed by the enthusiasm you guys have. Great to know that you've been following this thread. Your finished model is beautiful; You're the modeler I know to have finished both Italeri 1/12 Fiats. 27 minutes ago, Hannes said: In my opinion Bordino had a Crash( maybe during quaifying) and the mechanics simply did not have time enough to fix this correctly.Same goes for the 3 louvres over the rear axle. I'm not sure who mentioned the crash, but it was talked about somewhere in the Gangshow thread. The crash was also what I thought of immediately when seeing the dent. On another forum I informed the members of this research session (would be a shame if they thought I'd have died) and I gave a summary of the things we found thus far. I also showed them these pics for comparison: One of the forum members, Aris, mentioned that it is clear that the steering arm on the kit isn't right. It should be more or less horizontal. Same thing with the 'suspension arm' running from under the bonnet toward the right front wheel. I'm not sure this was said before, so I thought I'd include it here. Final observation: I think the activity level in this thread is... let's say... promising 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Dear Roy,not only the steering arm has a wrong angle,it´s Lever is situated at a wrong place too! I found a spot on the engine block,wheer I drilled a new hole for the steering case. This also means,that the Holding device for the Lever has to get displaced too! I choose to fix it behind the Fixing Point for the engine block. Maybe we should Show the Color Picture of the master model in our thread,because some Details (like the crossed struts under the engine ) are much better elaborated compared to our kit. Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
square Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Sorry to ask a stupid question, but when I look at photo 4 and photo 9, it looks to me as the exhausts are wrapped in some kind of light material in bands. They are far from smooth as in photo 1 but have dents and vertical lines. Is that possible ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Dear Square maybe you saw the 6 exhaust tubes coming from each cylinder bank to get united in our exhaust pipe? Greetings Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
square Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Maybe. I am looking in the area around the brake and behind the driver, where the exhaust bend. Told you it was a stupid question 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Now I can see,what you mean and that´s an interesting question.Roy tries to get a high-res Version of your Picture .Maybe we will find out more. thank you for your Observation! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 This could also explain the stains on the exhaust pipe we see on the Picture before the start. (and they are not seen on the Picture during the race!) This is a very important contribution! There were some speculations about the exhaust pipe´s Color, but noone (including me!) thought about a wrapped pipe. Many greetings ! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 Are these photos part of our collection? Photo 10 Photo 11 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Wow! It´s getting better all the time...Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 I wanted to say WOW!!! What a day ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) Blimey guys! Photo 10 is very useful! It solves the issue raised today about the side steering arm angle. I 've mentioned this previously that the steering idler is wrong and should centre as per drawing 2 and be lower for aerodynamics. This photo confirms it. I deduced this from photo 7 but only part of the arm can be seen in that shot. Photo to come: Quick, horrible photo! I made the part a while ago based largely on photo 7 and a bit of common sense. Hadn't uploaded it before as I didn't like the shape of it. Having seen photo 10 I may stick with it. Edited November 15, 2016 by vontrips 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack58 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 I think that photo nr.11 is of the most worth to your research,have a good look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) The way it is developping now is way over the top in my opinion,a model is never a 100% copy of it's Original,builders like Andy understood this,others loose themselfs in blueprints that are (probably) wrong and try to take measurements from old and blurry photographs taken from different angles. 18 minutes ago, jack58 said: I think that photo nr.11 is of the most worth to your research,have a good look. Jack we're all being positive here, in the Gangshow thread, in this thread and in Andi's new thread. We are respectful for everyone. We made a new thread specifically for those who enjoy this research. Why are you here, making fun of us? Please, I respectfully ask you to be respectful. And in this thread it is true: if you don't like what we are doing, feel free not to follow. Edited November 15, 2016 by Roy vd M. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 15 minutes ago, jack58 said: I think that photo nr.11 is of the most worth to your research,have a good look. You're correct! Under 300% magnification in the background I can just barely see a cockwomble troll! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 Anyway, photo 11 can be used to check length / height ratio of the car. We have very few pictures that show the car from the front so I'll cherish them all. On photo 10 it becomes very clear how impressively tall the 'old type' Grand Prix cars were compared to the Fiat. And you can also see how wide the Fiat was. Perhaps the artist who drew up Drawing 1 based his artwork on a combination of less rare and less clear photos and survived Bugatti racers. The new photos yet again confirm that the Fiat really was this (almost impossibly) low. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 Oh, AND we now have decisive proof about the position of the manual crank shaft opening! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) Dear friends If some of you had still doubts about the fact that: 1) the kit's grille is too height and not wide enough (I thought that too but only imbeciles never have a change of mind...) 2) the transversal front and rear arms are too short on the kit (I said that you should add 6,5 mm on each side front and rear when I superposed my kit over the drawing 2, and ever made it on the rear), I think these photos 10 and 11 (bravo Roy!!), compared with the box-art in nearly the same angle (I had to turn it to get the best appreciation), give the best reply. We don't have yet a frontal view, but the angle much more opened does not allow any doubt on these very very important facts, that change deeply, as also the low body, the aspect of the car. Now, I understand what may feel archeologists discovering new treasures! I never had so much fun with a kit!! Thank you Italeri, for a so "unique model in terms of technology and accuracy"... All the best to all Edited November 16, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph correction 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 On 12/11/2016 at 10:13 PM, NickD said: The other concern is directed to Olivier. The above analysis is only really good enough to urge caution. At the moment none of the lines for the body seem right so be cautious everyone who has scapel, saw and dremel in hand. I don't mind being wrong but I would hate to deliver bad news at some point that is right. Dear Hannes, no, I spent too much time with my springs to change them (haven't got the Protar pieces, anyway). I think they will look good, just still wondering what I'll choose, now that I have decided to paint my frame body color... 9 hours ago, Hannes said: I want to add some thoughts regarding the look of our Radiator case on our new Picture.In my opinion Bordino had a Crash( maybe during quaifying) and the mechanics simply did not have time enough to fix this correctly.Same goes for the 3 louvres over the rear axle. I also don´t believe,that grill and case were a unity regarding our car,I mentioned this regarding a new bodywork shown an drawing 2, There a screws ,for Fixing the grill to it´s case! I don't see, on the picture, what you mean. Can you , with an enlargement and watermarks if possible, precise these 2 important points, please? I don't see screws on the grille as there are on the kit piece... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Hello dear passionate Gentlemen, Congrats on your passionate work and treasures found. Amazing fotos and most probably Fiat has more unpublished. Hannes is totally right, the car had a bad crash during the qualy and the mechanics had to work all night to fix what they could. They even solicited the help of the mechanics working on the fiat seaplane competing in the Schneider Trophy ! http://forums.autosport.com/topic/53955-fiat-804-805-and-806/ from another source i get that they painted the plane the same color as the racing car http://www.nourishingobscurity.com/2012/04/the-schneider-trophy/ Roy yes am game to go to Turino even the first week of the year. My girlfriend will join as well so we can share a good lunch or dinner. If you can not fly to Turino, you can fly to Geneva and we pick you both up at the airport and drive to Torino across the Alps. As you said the museum only opens on Sundays and seldom answer the phone. cheers to all and keep up the good work PS As mentioned earlier, if we have a 3D body shape dimensions for the true 806, i am game to commission a resin body shell and scratch build a chassis etc. from the adress sent by PM or other. Kudoos to all for your passionate work 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack58 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Why are you here, making fun of us? Not making fun of anyone,in picture 11 you can see clearly that the width between the wheels on both the front and rear axle are significant bigger then on the model. And that shall be one thing that i want to adjust on my model. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 5 minutes ago, sharknose156 said: Congrats on your passionate work and treasures found. Amazing fotos and most probably Fiat has more unpublished. I'm almost sure of it. Probably stuff on the engine and gearbox, mainly. Everything is welcome here! 5 minutes ago, sharknose156 said: Hannes is totally right, the car had a bad crash during the qualy and the mechanics had to work all night to fix what they could. They even solicited the help of the mechanics working on the fiat seaplane competing in the Schneider Trophy ! http://forums.autosport.com/topic/53955-fiat-804-805-and-806/ from another source i get that they painted the plane the same color as the racing car http://www.nourishingobscurity.com/2012/04/the-schneider-trophy/ Ah so it was you whom I got that info from. Great stuff, yet again... what can I say! 5 minutes ago, sharknose156 said: Roy yes am game to go to Turino even the first week of the year. My girlfriend will join as well so we can share a good lunch or dinner. If you can not fly to Turino, you can fly to Geneva and we pick you both up at the airport and drive to Torino across the Alps. Ha how's that for a nice idea. I told my girlfriend right away and she'd like that but I'm not sure if our 5 year old daughter will like that. Let's discuss that later... IF Fiat will welcome us. 5 minutes ago, sharknose156 said: PS As mentioned earlier, if we have a 3D body shape dimensions for the true 806, i am game to commission a resin body shell and scratch build a chassis etc. from the adress sent by PM or other. I'm in for that. We'll have to point our eyes at Nick.... 3 minutes ago, jack58 said: Not making fun of anyone,in picture 11 you can see clearly that the width between the wheels on both the front and rear axle are significant bigger then on the model. And that shall be one thing that i want to adjust on my model. In that case, feel welcome in this thread! I'm looking forward to compare a few photos we have gathered almost-front-view, to see if they align. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now