Lancaster ED799 WS-G 9 Squadron and aerial minelaying

[bharris]

I'm researching this aircraft, as it was the one that a cousin of my wife's, Fl/Off Raymond Yarwood Higginson, DFM, 9 Squadron's Bombing Leader, was killed in on a minelaying mission on 22nd April 1943 and I plan to build a model of it. I realise that this is the sort of aircraft-related question that would be more properly handled by Lancaster Archive Forums but they closed the day after I posted my enquiry so I'm posting here

It was built as "Part of the fourth production batch of 620 aircraft (being the final part of Contract No. B69247 and Works Order No. 7671) built by A.V.Roe & Co. Ltd., Newton Heath, Manchester." (http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_prod_avro1.htm) and delivered to 9 Squadron in March 1943.

From the 9 Squadron ORB's, its first mission was on 3rd April, ie it was in service for less than three weeks. The minelaying mission when it was shot down was its tenth.

For most of its short operational career its pilot was F/O C.A. Hale, but not on the final mission.

Numerous questions:

Does anyone have any photos of it? I haven't been find any, although there's plenty of a later WS-G, ED666 (G for Goofy)

Would it have been equipped with H2S? (I doubt it at that stage but want to check)

Would there have been any other differences from a generic MkIII? What about cockpit blisters? I assume it would have used the normal narrow-blade props. Would it have used the original pattern tailwheel or the later anti-shimmy pattern?

Was there any nose-art? What about mission (bomb) markings?

There appear to be some odd differences with 9 Squadron codes. I've seen some where the aircraft code was considerably smaller than the squadron code, and also ones where on the starboard side the aircraft code came *before* the roundel and squadron code. Would either of these have applied?

Re. the mine-laying mission, which type of RAF air-dropped mines would have been used? (See list at http://www.lancaster-archive.com/bc_bombsmineincendiaries.htm)

Load diagram http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_bomb_loads.htm shows "up to" six mines. On this mission, where the target was on the French Atlantic coast near the Spanish border, would all six have been carried?

Does anyone make a suitable aerial mine, from resin or anything else?

Any and all help gratefully received, including more appropriate places to ask these questions!

Ta!

Malcolm Street

Canberra, Australia (Home of G for George!)

[avro683]

I believe the imminently available set due from Airfix includes at least one mine "set". Nose art is a possibility as I know WS-J Johnny carried a very famous one. Sorry I can't be of more help, good luck with the build.

[Miggers]

The Matchbox Lanc also had 9 Squadron codes in it,but possibly for a

Tirpitz raid a/c.

[Finn]

Here are some mines about to be loaded into a Lancaster:

http://www.twojewiadomosci.com.pl/sites/default/files/galeria/432/lancasters_from_syerston.jpg

Jari

[Honeybee]

Hi Malcolm

General answers

Needle props, no H2S, blisters both side of canopy, anti-shimmy wheel, I believe Belcher Bits do resin mines.

Regards

Paul

[bharris]

Thanks everyone, esp.Honeybee. I've decided to pattern the aircraft on another WS-G, G for Goofy, (ED666) which is better documented and came from the same production batch. This means pitot in normal position and "normal" squadron/aircraft markings.

Re. the mines - I contacted Belcher Bits but their mine set (BB11) is only for 1/48. However, he sent me the instructions for the set which give diagrams on the mines and some hints on scratchbuilding.

[justplanecrazy]

Thanks everyone, esp.Honeybee. I've decided to pattern the aircraft on another WS-G, G for Goofy, (ED666) which is better documented and came from the same production batch. This means pitot in normal position and "normal" squadron/aircraft markings.

Re. the mines - I contacted Belcher Bits but their mine set (BB11) is only for 1/48. However, he sent me the instructions for the set which give diagrams on the mines and some hints on scratchbuilding.

Would appreciate a copy of those instructions to attempt building some mines myself.

Nick

[Finn]

Would appreciate a copy of those instructions to attempt building some mines myself.

Nick

The instructions are at the belcher Bits site:

http://www.belcherbits.com/lines/148conv/bb11.htm

Jari

[Merlin 28]

Hi bharris,

Great to see someone modelling this aircraft at last. My Granddad Tom Gill was the pilot on 10 of her 30 ops including the last Manheim 5/9/43. As you mentioned him previously Hale also flew her on 5 occasions.

There are a couple of opinions as to why the code letters were of a different size the main opinion is that the practice was carried out at Waddington prior to the Squadron moving to Bardney on the 14th April 43. The Squadrons nose art was painted by a Corporal Jackie Patterson his artwork was generally regarded as some of the finest.

[Daniel Cox]

Hi Malcolm,

Here is my take which appears to concur with everyone else's take on Lancaste B Mk III ED799.

Does anyone have any photos of it? I haven't been find any, although there's plenty of a later WS-G, ED666 (G for Goofy)

I haven’t seen photos of ED799

Would it have been equipped with H2S? (I doubt it at that stage but want to check)

No.

Would there have been any other differences from a generic MkIII? What about cockpit blisters? I assume it would have used the normal narrow-blade props. Would it have used the original pattern tailwheel or the later anti-shimmy pattern?

It is highly likely that ED799 featured side canopy blisters, narrow propeller blades and larger bomb aimer’s blister. It is likely ED799 featured the later tail wheel.

Was there any nose-art? What about mission (bomb) markings?

It is likely that ED799 featured nose art and mission markings.

There appear to be some odd differences with 9 Squadron codes. I've seen some where the aircraft code was considerably smaller than the squadron code, and also ones where on the starboard side the aircraft code came *before* the roundel and squadron code. Would either of these have applied?

It is likely that ED799 featured the smaller individual code.

Re. the mine-laying mission, which type of RAF air-dropped mines would have been used?

It is highly likely that ED799 used the 1,500lb Mine Mk I-IV.

Load diagram http://www.lancaster..._bomb_loads.htm shows "up to" six mines. On this mission, where the target was on the French Atlantic coast near the Spanish border, would all six have been carried?

It is likely that ED799 carried 6x 1,500lb Mines which was the typical load for Minelaying Operations inclusive of near the Spanish border.

For your interest here are some documents that will provide a bit of insight into minelaying from Wellington to Lancaster aircraft for No. 1 Group, it was probably similar for 5 Group which IX Sqn was a part of;

Cheers,

Daniel.

[bharris]

Hi bharris,

Great to see someone modelling this aircraft at last. My Granddad Tom Gill was the pilot on 10 of her 30 ops including the last Manheim 5/9/43. As you mentioned him previously Hale also flew her on 5 occasions.

Are you sure you're talking about ED799 and not another WS-G? From the 9 Squadron ORB the aircraft only completed ten ops and was lost in April 1943.

[bharris]

Daniel, thanks for some fascinating information, especially on the mines.

I assume mission markings would have just been the normal bomb icons (or would they have used ice cream cones for the Italian raids, as per Phantom of the Ruhr?). Any idea what nose are might have been?

cheers,

Malcolm

[Merlin 28]

Are you sure you're talking about ED799 and not another WS-G? From the 9 Squadron ORB the aircraft only completed ten ops and was lost in April 1943.

Sorry I'm talking about ED666, WS-G.