INFINITY Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) Just started my Trumpeter Seahawk. I've been looking forward to this - first time properly working with resin etc. I am using Weighted aftermarket wheels, Eduard PE details, Aires Gear bay and potentially going for the Admiral's Barge, though lack of confidence in which green to use is moving me towards EDSG/ Sky. Phoenix Paints British Standard Railway colours seem to be the most likely which would have been used in the day. P93 middle chrome green or dark green BS381C shade 276 Lincoln Green seem to be the most probable based on what I have seen. Other options include Humbrol Emerald or the unlikely Brunswick green. Unless I can be definitive I won't do it. Nevertheless, the build begins. References suggest wheel bays were repainted either sky, white or aluminium during their operational life. I've started with Alclad Aluminium, coated in Xtracrylix Sky, detailed with copper, silver and promodellers dark dirt wash. The Aires wheel bay needed substantial reduction before I was satisfied it fit within the fuselage without fouling the injection moulded plastic. However, the resin is easy to work with and offers a lot of detail. The cockpit was modified to suit the PE parts, sprayed varying shades of grey, before darkening to black in areas. Silver dry brushing brought out the details before the self adhesive PE was adorned. A Pavla Mk2d seat was painted using http://www.hawkerhunter.com/2954/ as a reference, but needed a great deal of resin removing from the base to fit in the tub. (I will display this cockpit open.) Next job is to Alclad and fix the exhausts in place and the resin nose wheel bay from Aires, which I have no idea yet how to fit since the instructions are dire for such an expensive addition. I think I need to cut out the existing detail from the bottom half of the fuselage, but if anyone knows better I would be pleased to know. That's it for now for those of you interested. Sorry about the poorly focused iphone photos - it's not quite as bad in the plastic, so to speak. Still not happy with the colour of the seat fabric or top of ejection seat detail, but I will work on that. Still needs scratch build throttle making and gunsight transparency fitting. Andy Test fitting the front and rear fuselage sections: Some of the references: Edited January 19, 2011 by INFINITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejboyd5 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I had the same color question a year or so ago - a search for "Admiral's Barge color" should bring up the following: hhtp://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic+24877&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roys Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) Another picture of the Seahawk? -could you post a picture or links to the others? Edited January 12, 2011 by roys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) Another picture of the Seahawk? -could you post a picture or links to the others? Do you mean in admirals barge colours? The two pics I have are in warpaint profile, and someone tried to build an fs2004 model. Btw - you have a great model shop in Halifax. I can't stop spending there! I changed the title of my post because it suggested I've made one of these before - I haven't. Andy Edited January 12, 2011 by INFINITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roys Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) Was under the impression from the original title you had built more but as soon as i posted you edited the title! Will watch this one with interest as i am on with a batch of airfix ones. Must give a plug to Halifax Modellers World, as they got me into this game http://www.halifaxmodellersworld.co.uk/ Its in the Piece Hall, built in 1779-the square building in the centre of the picture. Piece Hall Halifax Edited January 13, 2011 by roys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) A bit more progress today. Exhaust sprayed and placed along with intakes and nose gear assembly. All fits well so far. Decided against using the Aires resin wheel bay on this build. There's not enough to be gained unlike the main gear bay. Here is a clearer view of the nose wheel area prior to PE detailing. Also Aires resin parts seen after Alclad undercoat. Close up of exhausts. These fit in nice and snug. View of the painted intakes and nose area. Just checking fit. More test fitting around exhausts. Cockpit now glued in and rear fuselage assembled. Arrester hook fits between the two halves of rear fuselage. Also trapping the tailplane support. The Aires aftermarket nose bay and the original. I will not tear my hair out on this area. The original will do fine with just a few details added. Cockpit fits well, if a little dark on post war FAA aircraft, but thats as they were. And wing fold area underway. So far this kit is coming along quite nicely. It's well moulded and well engineered throughout. That front to back fuselage joint does look a little ominous though! Thanks for looking. Andy Edited January 13, 2011 by INFINITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roys Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The engine intake airflow plates (sorry do not know correct term-baffles?),seem quite pronounced on this model but seem invisible on the fullsize in a lot of photos. Just a thought. Found a load of useful images here. Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks for the link to the pics. Great stuff. You're correct; they are too thick on the model. On my next seahawk (have a few in the stash) I will reduce the thickness by taking them off and using thin plasticard. However, for this one I can live with the thicker baffles. You have the eye of a hawk - a sea hawk by the sounds of things! Cheers for the comment and link. Much appreciated. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davec_24 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Looking good Andy! Love the Seahawk, and this kit's not too bad either. Humbrol reckoned Emerald Green for the equivalent Whirlwind scheme, if that helps with the colour question; it'd be a very different scheme to see on a model, for sure. Just a couple of ideas, if I may. Firstly, I think the intakes should be the same colour as the upper surfaces at least as far as the baffles, so in this case EDSG; this also helps the baffles to stand out a bit less (they're still a bit thick though). Also the kit's arrestor hook is completely the wrong shape, but thankfully is clunky enough to reprofile easily with a file and sandpaper. It should be a rounded hooked shape (as seen here) from the side, and have a groove running around the outside, as you can see in this picture. When I did my build of this kit, I found this made the tail end of the aircraft look much better, especially since the tail hook can be a bit of an attention grabber on these beauties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Thanks for those observations. Regarding the hook - Yes the kit one is awful. I will be changing that but I hadn't spotted it before, so cheers. Colours - Again you are correct in the pic you linked to - I appreciate those pics - thanks. I think my confusion lay in these warpaint profiles: Which means that if I am building this as an FGA6 I should have white undersides, however I will be using the classic airframes decals with the sky underside. I can't get to my CA kit at the moment to check the year of the represented aircraft. I need to check if there were structural differences between the earlier versions and the FGA6. Still not too late to do the Admiral's Barge. mmm... Bugger. Thanks for spotting that. Some more progress, but no more till I've sorted my build reference: Edited January 13, 2011 by INFINITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davec_24 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The Trumpeter kit represents the FGA.6, which I think differs from the FGA.4 in some details as the engine is different. Others more knowledgeable about this may be able to fill you in. The FGA.6 was in service side-by-side with some of its earlier sisters, and initially wore the EDSG/sky colours. The FGA.6 did serve at Suez, and so the Suez stripes are also legitimate for certain examples. In the 1960s, the standard colours changed from EDSG/sky to EDSG/white, and the Seahawk was painted to go along with this, hence the white undersides in your picture. However, the older scheme would still be authentic: I would guess the majority of Seahawk FGA.6s would have been delivered and initially served in the EDSG/sky scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the info. I'll respray the wheel bay and intakes white and go with the admirals barge for sure on this build. Question is should those intakes be white or emerald green/ middle chrome green/ Lincoln green??? I'll bet no one knows for sure. I mean how different does the green of the side profile in warpaint look to the photograph of the actual aircraft. I know that roys and I discussed this earlier in thread, but I don't know about emerald green for certain. Would it have been available then, are are the authentic railway british standard colours listed above a safer bet? I will order one of each type and spray them to see the differences. More research needed now and some sample spraying/ re-spraying. Surely there can't be only one photo of the green aircraft? A little deeper research into maritime naval colours shows that HMS Victory's admirals barge was olive green. A colour apparently reached by mixing yellow ochre and black. The main two colours used on the outer of victory. This olive (y) green seems to re appear on Hood and other ships. White ensign models refer to Mid Green being the denoted colour above the waterline on admirals barges, with White below. Mid Bronze Green is the BS colour which was popular in victorian times for door frontages etc. It also ties in with White ensigns statements and appears to be partway between a true olive green and an emerald green - which is still fairly vivid. As such it also agrees with the side profile in warpaint of this aircraft. Hannants do an acrylic mid bronze green and Ill try it tomorrow! Cheers Andy Edited January 14, 2011 by INFINITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robw_uk Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 nice kit & work.... but what really caught my eye was the silver object that your airbrush seems to be plugged in to... what is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Hi and thanks. It's just an airbrush stand from obeeliks website. Makes life a little easier. Idea is that you can plug two brushes in at once but I don't use that feature. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roys Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I have Model Art decal sheet 72/060 with the admiral barges scheme on and they descibe the green as Gloss Emerald Green BS381c: 640 Whatever that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davec_24 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Wheel bays on Seahawks were one of those things which varied in colour from aircraft to aircraft. Some where the underside colour, some grey and some a dull silver, from what I can tell. As with the "Admiral's Barge" colour scheme, I think you will have to use a bit of informed guesswork and go with your best idea of what seems right, mixed with what looks good! For the intakes, I would suggest either to have the whole intake the topside colour, or to have the topside colour up to and including the vanes/baffles, then white or aluminium further inside the intakes. It'll probably be difficult to find a photograph to show this definitively either way, so I'd do whatever feels and looks right. At least nobody is likely to prove you wrong, whichever you choose... Edited January 14, 2011 by Davec_24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Brilliant - thanks for those comments. Roys - I take it the model art sheet is 1/72. Gloss Emerald Green. (That is BS381c: 228 I believe.) The BS381c: 640 to which you refer is Extra Dark Sea Grey. Do you have a pic of these decals - I cannot locate them online. I will post a pic of my colour dilemma from the warpaint reference and you will sea what I mean...but that's great. I'm sure that model art would have done their homework. Davec24 - I guess I'll go with white for the gear bay now I'm certain to try the admirals barge scheme and yes, the baffles will be done in the topside colour; whatever it blooming is. Gentlemen, if you don't mind, bearing in mind everything that has been discussed about which hue of green is correct, cast your eyes over these to pics. Both from warpaint although one sourced from Ray Sturtivant. The colour is referred to as Flag Officer Green. Which one do you think it is. In summary from what I have found out: Flag Officer Green - Not a real colour from what I can tell. I would like to be proved wrong. Emerald Green - According to Humbrol and Model Art. Based on which reference I would love to know. I guess the photo below looks a bit emerald-ish but colours deteriorate in photos and this one almost looks filtered to me. Brunswick Green lightened with a little white - According to a leading model review and magazine contributor. Middle Chrome Green & Middle Bronze Green - Both BS colours, popular at time of actual aircraft and historically accurate for admiral barge vessels. (White ensign models) Lincoln Green - The nearest green I can find to the supposed flag officer green in BD colours. or this green whatever it may be - looks a bit bronze/ olive to me... http://www.nazcastudios.com/sea-hawk/repai...6-repaints.html Someone must know...the warpaint profile and the FS2004 are definitely not emerald green so where did these references originate??? Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roys Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Correct it is 228-I read the wrong one! Apologies ! And yes it is 1/72 http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/r...wkerSeahawk.jpg Edited January 14, 2011 by roys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 This is more like it I think... Humbrol 105 - Matt Marine Green Seems more 'Navy' to my eye. Personal crusade continues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Bottom picture: It's hard to believe the Royal Navy used this colour though I suspect it looks a completely different shade in real life, such are photographs. (Pretty none the less) Edited January 19, 2011 by INFINITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roys Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Yet another shade: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlpainter Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 hi i think the colour you are looking for is the same as the stripe on the royal navy herons go down to your local car paint supplier and ask to see a colour chip it comes back as bs 228 emerald green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFINITY Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Yes Roys - it is beautiful. I'm certainly not knocking it, it's just that the colour does not seem to agree with the Royal Navy references I have seen. It looks a wonderful model nevertheless. (If indeed your comment refers to the vampire.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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