Thining for brush painting

[airmech]

Hello all,

Iv very recently bought myself the airfix spitfire PRXIX and having only really made a bit of a mess at any attempts at modelling in my younger years id very much appreciate a bit of advice.

After actually putting the model together i plan to brush paint using humbrol enamels,i was just wondering how much and if infact this paint needs thining,iv found some very useful hints and tips on the actually painting on the forum but i struggled to find a conclusive answer on as to how much to thin the paint if indeed there is one!!Im not sure if this is a case of different things for different people?

Tkankyou very much for your time any help it would be much appreciated.

[Lightningboy2000]

Hello all,

Iv very recently bought myself the airfix spitfire PRXIX and having only really made a bit of a mess at any attempts at modelling in my younger years id very much appreciate a bit of advice.

After actually putting the model together i plan to brush paint using humbrol enamels,i was just wondering how much and if infact this paint needs thining,iv found some very useful hints and tips on the actually painting on the forum but i struggled to find a conclusive answer on as to how much to thin the paint if indeed there is one!!Im not sure if this is a case of different things for different people?

Tkankyou very much for your time any help it would be much appreciated.

Hi Airmech,

I have been modelling now for the last 3 years and still haven't got an airbrush as I'm happy with brush painting and do get brilliant smooth results using Humbrol (my personal favorite).

I always use a flat synthetic brush which is roughly 10/15mm wide. The ones I swear by are the cheap "Twist grip Flat 8 brush - 50026685" from my local art shop & they're roughly £2.75 each.

With the brush I decant some of the paint into a cut down 35mm plastic film canister. (roughly similar size to a 14ml paint tin) And only a few brush fulls 4-5 are usually enough for me as I mostly build in 1/72.

I then pour a little thinners into the thinners can lid and draw some that onto the brush and then into the enamel paint - i'll do this until the paint drips freely from the brush.

For me the paint has to be thin enough to settle flat onto the primed surface - do not over brush if at all possible - and be quick when painting. Don't over load the brush and don't have too little on the brush or else it will only cover a small area and will dry quicker.

With dark pigments like Extra dark sea grey or the satin 163 Dark Green for example, you can use at least two of these thin coats, but white or very bright pigments will have to have at least 5-6 coats.

Always make sure that each layer is perfectly dry, or you will drag the previous layer.

Once all the main painting has been done I go over with very fine micromesh (get the sets from Littlecars online) pads to get rid of the fine brush marks - rubbing very lightly.

Basically the process is very similar to air brushing as you often have to smooth up the surface ready for laying down Klear or applying decals onto the smooth surface - very important lest getting silvered decals especially small ones stencils.

That's about it really, but I'd say use small amounts of the paint and thin it until the paint drips/runs freely from the brush - not too much or the paint will be too transparent and you will have to paint more coats than you really want.

This is as good as I have achieved:http://www.flickr.com/photos/data70/4191538266/sizes/l/in/set-72157620556773951/

Best of luck

regards

Martin

[airmech]

Thankyou very much for the advice buddy the film canister sounds like a very good idea.I think il invest in some micromesh as im expecting brushmarks!!!

The finish on your phantom really does look superb if i can get mine to look half as good il be chuffeds to bits!!

Thanks again and all the best

Kyle.

[Lightningboy2000]

Glad to be of help.

Mart

[gengriz]

As a 40yr-plus brush-only man, can I add a few thoughts; the Humbrol paint is not always very consistent in its viscosity or opacity, even after vigorous stirring. Doing a quick test on something is always a good idea, before adding any thinner, then add only the amount required, which will vary. Too much is better than too little, as you can always add a very thin top coat to finish (but each coat adds to the risk of dust). As the tin ages it always becomes thicker and more opaque, until it normally needs a little thinner in the pot to stop it drying up on its own (although that in itself can start the curing process).

The key, I believe, is speed of application - once it starts to dry on the model you will end up with brush strokes if you go back over it - work from one end, think about the route you will take, and try to keep the advancing edge wet. If you have to stop anywhere, choose a panel line. If you see brush strokes appearing on the bits you have done, stop and add more thinner. Ifit all goes wrong (as it did for me on a model last night) then a thinner soaked paper towel is ideal for removing not-yet-dried paint and starting again, but watch out for dust/paper left on the surface.

And always, always, use the tip of the brush, not the edge. Dont be afraid to stop and clean your brush half way as well - the paint on the brush dries and thickens too, especially if you are painting a larger model!

Finally, a decently applied varnish top-coat can hide all manner of brush painting sins!

HTH FredT

[airmech]

Thanks very much for that buddy im sure il be making a fair few mistakes to start off with a thinners rag will be kept at arms reach!! I tried a bit of thinned paint on a tester last night im amazed at how easily it goes on compared to straight out of the tin and also the distinct lack of brush marks in comparission to unthinned.

Iv seen alot about klear on here and have found some in the cupboard,can that be used as the final varnish coat or is it better to use a model specific product?

Thanks very much for the help,

Kyle.

[Test Graham]

I would never recommend adding thinners to the paint can, either directly or as a way of returning thinned paint. I've found it a guaranteed way of gelling the liquid paint.

I always (cough, at least for large areas, cough) place some paint into a separate bowl (in my case a purpose built piece of pottery from school handicraft classes in the early sixties) and then add thinner - ok, I actually place four drops of thinner into the bowl first and then add more to taste. Not only does this flow better, with less brush marks, it also helps to ensure a better cover with less streakiness. Even after long stirring, try to collect some paint from the bottom of the tin for your mix. I take it you do not have a mechanical stirrer - those who do swear by them but I've never found one I felt happy with.

I always use Humbrol thinner with Humbrol paints - or indeed with any other paints I have (mainly WEM and Precision, with a few Xtracolour). Ideally I would recommend using what the manufacturer recommends - usually its own brand - but those with chemical knowledge are free to laugh at that. However, experiments using "unmatched" thinners are fairly cheap.

Klear is fine for providing a smooth surface for applying decals onto otherwise matt paint. It is not intended as a true gloss varnish and will take several coats to provide a consistent cover. You can slap it on generously, but if it pools the result will be patchy. Some people do use it that way, but experiment on something small first. (Old Airfix tank kits are excellent in this regard - simple and quick to make with largely simple colour schemes. Avoid ones that don't match these requirements! Italeri do a pair of snap-together Jeeps which sound ideal - you can always use a jeep or two in a diorama.)

Most WW2 subjects require matt fnishes, so an additional top cover of a matt varnish will be needed anyway. If you graduate to Xtracolour paints these come with a glossy finish. It makes them more difficult to apply but completely avoids the Klear-before-decals step - though it could still be used afterwards. Onto a gloss finish only the one coat should be needed. WEM paints come with a semi-gloss finish which does make brush-painting more awkward but look very good when you get it right, and they have a wonderful range of colours.

Having said all this, I will point out that I have been modelling for years, but only to satisfy myself not reach competition standards.

[airmech]

Thanks again for all the advice its all much appreciated and will be taken on board!! I take it its maybe best to just apply the klear to the areas you wish to place the decals then?? sorry about these noob questions i have to admit at not having much of a clue

Iv been using a film canister (as advised above) to mix a small amount of thinners and paint only mixing roughly what i need then disposing of whats left,seems to be working fairly well so far just some practice needed!!

Thnks again,

Kyle.

[dmpanther]

Hi Airmech,

I also use the hairy stick to slap the paint around and I am a keen user of Klear.

I would suggest that the Klear is laid down over the whole model as will prevent tonal differences and possible different coating thicknesses causing "steps" in the final finish.

A couple of thin coats should suffice to produce a smooth surface but allow each coat to dry.

You can also use Klear as a setting solution for your decals. To help things settle down put a dab in the area your about to place the decal.

With the decal in place, do the usual and sop up the excess fluid. As the decal starts to dry I have a tendency to brush on another thin layer of Klear to help the decal snuggle onto the surface. Once cured, Klear produces a good hard surface to protect the the previous layers and can be evened up with a polishing pad.

I have found that for the final sheen, that the Humbrol Acrylic Rattle cans are pretty consistant in producing the desired effect. For me, this is undertaken in the garden on dry windless days, which means I don't finish many models except in batches!

HTH

Darren

[airmech]

Thats fantastic thankyou thats really kleared that up for me (il get me coat!!) il certainly give that a go very useful information il hopefully put it all into practice soon enough!!

Thanks again to everyone for the advice

All the best

Kyle.

[Julien]

I have been brush paiting for a number of years now (at least 25!) mainly using humbrol and xtracolor.

I have had very little need to thin the paint ever. On a couple of times I have had really thick humbrol and have had to. Mostly though I have just painted from the tin.

I have always got good brushes from an art shop, some costing up to £10. Some people think this is a lot but if looked after properly they last for a very long time.

I would also say I always polish out my paint after application with various grades of micromesh starting at 3000 grit going down to 12000 grit. This help level out small imperfections.

If getting good brushes then always look after them (actually works for cheap ones as well). I operated a 3 tub system with thinner. First wipe as much pigment off in a good kitchen towel. Then wash off in tub one, this gets most of the pigment out, progress to tub 2 qand then onto 3; buy this time there should be really no visable pigment comming out.

Some people will tell you to store brushes flat, I have stood mine up (handle down) in a couple of old cups for years and it has never done them any harm.

Once in a while if paint starts to clump up then suspend the brushes overnight in cellulose thinner, this gets all the crud out (you will be surprised at how much comes out). Then the next day wash well, I find my normal 2 in one shampoo does a good job of this and seems to recondition the brushes as well.

Julien

[airmech]

I think a bit of experimentation is in order for me!! Iv just put the final coat on my spitfires wings,iv done 3 coats using thinned humbrol enamel and it seems to have turned out fairly well for a first go. Im just in the middle of an airacobra think il try brushing straight out of the pot with that one and see how i go i have to say so far i find the thinned paint very easy to apply but im certainly happy to try any means to get the desired results!!

Thanks for the tips on the brushes il be sure to put them to good use!!

All the best

Kyle.

[jZSAURONZj]

I'be been airbrushing for close to 35 years doing both commercial illustration work as well as special effects model building and painting. My work horse for 90% of the model painting I do is the Paasche VL using a #1 Cone and a #1 Needle. 2 factors that are now crucial are 1. Air Pressure to the airbrush and 2. Properly thinned paint.

When it comes to the air pressure I will usually float between 45lbs and 55lbs of pressure for most paints. The VL being a dual action airbrush allows for actual air/paint mixture coming from the airbrush.

I've discovered that almost every single type of paint, be it acrylic, laquer, enamel, or otherwise follows the same needs when it comes for proper thinning. First off, in a separate mixing bottle, add your color. then gradually add the appropriate base thinner (be it water or thinners) until you have mixed up what looks to be a mix thats slightly more fluid then actual cream.

Now here is the key: cut a few squares of nylon pantyhose (use leggs) so that you can stretch one piece over a paint jar and secure it with a rubber band. Now begin to pour your mixed color through the stretched pantyhose. This has a two-fold purpose. Firts off, it strains out any blobs or dried paint that may have gotten into the mix so that it doesnt clog your airbrush. The other purpose is asuring a proper consistancy in your paint to be sprayed. If the mix does not penetrate the pantyhose stretched over the jar, it is still too thick and will likely clog or sputter when sprayed. If the paint pours through the pantyhose like water it is way too thin and you then need to add more color to the mix.

This method has never failed me and has always assured that the thinned paint I intend to use flows so well that if need be, I could airbrush a line as thin as a fingernail or paint a nice wide band of color without the paint running on the surface