F-4 Phantom II Loadout identification

[Red Dog]

Hi all,

Just after identification of what's on the centerline pylon on this F-4E please. Is it a BLU-27 Napalm cannister?

Also Right forward sparrow station (unfortunately unseen in both pics)

From what I can see and identify:

Left Outer pylon - Fuel tank

Left Inner pylon - MER with 3 x Mk.82's

Left forward sparrow station - AN/ALQ-87

Left rear sparrow station - AIM-7E sparrow

Centerline - BLU-27 Napalm?

Right rear sparrow station - ? (Aim-7E like LHS?)

Right Forward sparrow station - ?

Right Inner pylon - MER with 3 x Mk.82's

Right Outer pylon - Fuel tank

 

 

Any help or corrections greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Red Dog

[Finn]

Looks like 2 finned BLU-27s on the c/l , probably no AIM-7 in the right forward well (can't see any fins hanging down) but 2 Sparrows in the rear wells was common.

 

Jari

[f111guru]

@Red Dog, Jari @Finnis correct. The BLU-27's are loaded on the forward MER stations. If your a numbers sort of fellow they are MER stations 4 and 6. Also could have an ALQ-101 pod in the right forward missile station. I was up at Udorn RTAFB in 1972 and our D models carries an ALQ-87 and ALQ-101 in the forward AIM -7 cavities. Time frame may be 1970-71. Could even be 72. I'll have to see what other images I have in my Phantom directory. Quite an interesting pair of photos. Thanks for posting.

 

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwarker

[Scout712]

If you soon into the lower pic you see its definitely an ALQ-87 in the right forward missile well.

That makes sense. Standard load for the 469th was 2xALQ-87 in the forward wells in 72. Furthermore, the 101 would not fit next to the open nose gear door of the E-model. Unlike to the flat door of the non-gun-nosed Phantoms.

Furthermore, I suspect a second AIM-7 E2 in the right rear well. Don Logan's book about the 388th TFW at Korat shows almost every bomb loaded Phantom with 2 AIM-7s. The forward well does not make sense since it would require the centerline tank to be jettisoned before the missile could be launched. Without being jettisoned, the firing circuit for the front wells are inhibited.

Best regards

Michael

[f111guru]

Here are a couple photo's of 67-0392 and 67-0393 from Korat RTAFB. First from 1974

The next is prior to 1974 and off a tanker I'm going to guess. It does show 2 ALQ-87's in the forward missile wells. These were sent from the phantom group I belong to.

All my F-4 loading was done on the F-4D from my TDY days from Udorn RTAFB and our home base at Clark AFB Philippines. I was part of the 48th at RAF Lakenheath in 1977 to send the D models back to the US and bring in the F-111F. Had great times loading the phantom.

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwarker

[Red Dog]

Thanks for your replies Finn, Scout712 and f111guru.

That clears that up perfectly.

2 x AN/ALQ-87 's in forward sparrow wells (stations 4 & 6), 2 sparrows in rear wells (3 & 7) a BLU-27 on centerline (5), Mk. 82's on MER's (2 & 😎 and fuel tanks (1 & 9) 👍

I have all of these items either in the kit (Hasegawa's F-4E - with swapped hard wing from Has F-4EJ) or in Hasegawa's Weapons sets. 

Those extra pics are fantastic Ron thanks for posting.

 

I think I may have found my modelling subject F-4E 70393

A couple of follow up questions if I may.

It seems from what I can see (it is hard to be certain) that 393 in the pics that I posted has the JV code of the 469th TFS 388TFW but in Rons pics 393 is definitely coded JJ of the 34th TFS 388TFW. Is that possible a switch between squadrons or am I seeing things incorrectly in reading JV?

Also, what is the significance of the green with white border marking under the canopy?

Appreciate all your help so far. 

Thanks

Red Dog

 

[f111guru]

4 hours ago, Red Dog said:

Thanks for your replies Finn, Scout712 and f111guru.

That clears that up perfectly.

2 x AN/ALQ-87 's in forward sparrow wells (stations 4 & 6), 2 sparrows in rear wells (3 & 7) a BLU-27 on centerline (5), Mk. 82's on MER's (2 & 😎 and fuel tanks (1 & 9) 👍

I have all of these items either in the kit (Hasegawa's F-4E - with swapped hard wing from Has F-4EJ) or in Hasegawa's Weapons sets. 

Those extra pics are fantastic Ron thanks for posting.

 

I think I may have found my modelling subject F-4E 70393

A couple of follow up questions if I may.

It seems from what I can see (it is hard to be certain) that 393 in the pics that I posted has the JV code of the 469th TFS 388TFW but in Rons pics 393 is definitely coded JJ of the 34th TFS 388TFW. Is that possible a switch between squadrons or am I seeing things incorrectly in reading JV?

Also, what is the significance of the green with white border marking under the canopy?

Appreciate all your help so far. 

Thanks

Red Dog

 

For what I knew at the time and became clear in later years, aircraft were rotated within the wing. Generally in the squadrons aircraft still had major overhauls or by fate were shot down. So aircraft were sometimes sent to other squadron to maintain a combat level of aircraft. While TDY to Udorn in August 1972 2 Clark aircraft were sent to a major depot level facility for updates and or repair. So in that the 405th TFW received 2 aircraft from the 432nd TFW to maintain our strength. Hope that makes sense. I know the time frames for both photo's of 67-0393 were taken a year or so apart. The canopy frames were at one time painted the squadron color. Not all wings and squadrons did that. Some did as the below photo:

Sorry about the quality. This is a 405th TFW 523rd TFS aircraft on the load training pad at Udorn June 1972. Next is a 432nd TFW 13th TFS? on the load training pad a few days later.

Lastly is another 432nd TFW 555TFS at the time with 6xMK-82 centerline and inboard pylon TER's 2xM-36 Dispensers. Rear wells or stations 3 and 7 AIM-7E missiles.

 

Aircraft were moved around within the wing to maintain squadron combat strength. Hope I answered your questions.

 

When I decide on a project I pick a single subject and get as much information about the subject as I can. I try to have photo reference of the finished model or models if multiple.

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwarker

[Red Dog]

Thanks again Ron. Really appreciate your input and help.

Sound perfectly reasonable that '393' could've been transferred, hence the differences.

From just asking an armament question, I'm getting really interested in this plane and would love to find out more about it, including the two airmen in those shots.

I'll keep digging away and see what else I can find. I have very limited F-4 references so google has been great so far.

Thanks again.

[f111guru]

No problem. I downloaded the images in question and I'll put them up on the F-4 Phantom group. Someone there will surely remember. I will check completely my directories to see if these fellows are in any other photo.

This is a copy from the late Joe Baugher's website.

https://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1967.html

 

0393 (MSN 3303) USAF 421st TFS (366th TFW). USAF 469th TFS (388th TFW). USAF 34th TFS (388th TFW). 1974: USAF 432nd TRW. With 432nd TRW crashed near Chandy, Thailand Nov 12, 1974. The WSO's ejection seat would not come out and he was killed. Pilot got out OK.

 

I'll still put it up on the phantom group to get any prior information before the crash.

 

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwarker

[Finn]

Here is 393, note no slime lights:

 

 

some other early F-4E photos can be seen here:

 

https://366th-tfw.net/bruce-hill_photos2.htm

 

Jari

[f111guru]

@Red DogI do have some more information and another photo. It will take a bit but will have the aircrew names eventually. Also have to ask if you happen to have the source or a larger format image of the aircrew member aircraft. I was a request of one of the phantom group members named Don Jay. The below photo is from him and is a pre strike air refuel.

The date is January 1972. I'm going to jump out here and say this jet has a partial load. Appears to be what we weapons folks call a flat 2 configuration in the inboard pylon ters and guessing a partial or full load mer.

So if you have that or know where I can get a larger image if possible let me know. Thanks!!

 

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwarker

[Finn]

I would say that the bombs on the left i/b pylon are Mk-83s, note how further they stick out in the front. Mainly a Navy/Marine weapon, the USAF did use the Mk-83 a few times.

 

Jari

[Red Dog]

Thanks Finn, some interesting shots of Vietnam era aircraft there.

 

Sorry I can't provide any more info on the pics I posted other than both are from 'Pintrest'. Was just collecting pictures for my own use while building my model when the query about armament came up. Appreciate all you've done so far. Please don't go out of your way for any more info. Will hopefully show some pics of the finished model later. Don't hold your breath but it will get done.

Cheers

Red Dog