ReccePhreak Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 A search of the forums didn't find the answer(s) to my inquiry, so here goes. I have both the Ocidental 1/48 Spitfire Mk.IXe & Mk.IXc kits, along with an Airwaves 1/48 Spitfire PR.XI conversion. My model stash "database" (Actually an Excel Spreadsheet) lists the IXe as having a "bad nose shape". Does the IXe and/or the IXc have a "bad nose shape? If so, which Ocidental Spitfire kit be the best choice for the conversion? Will just using the Airwaves conversion overcome the bad shape? I will also be using my Almark decals sheet A48-26 "PR Markings Europe" for the conversion. Any & all help/comments will be appreciated. Just don't tell me to dump the Ocidental kit(s) and go buy some other "Newer & Better" Spitfire kit. At 71 years old, I need to concentrate on building what I have in my stash, NOT increasing the stash. Larry in Florida 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 The Spitfire Mk.IX began (excl;uding the first 50) with a fairly flat cowling top. At a late stage this was replaced by a newer slightly bulged top which was introduced on the Castle Bromwich line to simplify production. This was not specifically linked to either the c or e armament, but late production Mk.IXs were mainly e and all Mk.XVI were, I believe, and are more than likely to have had only this later top. I have no idea about the 1/48 kits, but that's presumably what this business of a "bad" nose shape may be about. The PR XI will have had the earlier top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: The Spitfire Mk.IX began (excl;uding the first 50) with a fairly flat cowling top. At a late stage this was replaced by a newer slightly bulged top which was introduced on the Castle Bromwich line to simplify production. This was not specifically linked to either the c or e armament, but late production Mk.IXs were mainly e and all Mk.XVI were, I believe, and are more than likely to have had only this later top. I have no idea about the 1/48 kits, but that's presumably what this business of a "bad" nose shape may be about. The PR XI will have had the earlier top. Thanks for that quick response. I looked over both kits and their instructions, and BOTH of them have identical top pieces. At first I just looked at the instructions, which showed what appeared to be "bulged" cowling tops. When I pulled the kit pieces out, they actually look fairly flat overall. Makes me wonder why I added the "bad nose shape" comment to my database. Oh well, I will just try to make these "Fun Builds", with at least one Recce bird among them. I just noticed that I have 2 IXe kits in the same box. Have to look through my stash of Spitfire decals, to determine which of the 3 kits to build first. Larry Edited February 18 by ReccePhreak More info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 3 minutes ago, ReccePhreak said: Makes me wonder why I added the "bad nose shape" comment to my database. the Occidental nose droops a bit, and is slightly too wide. Funnily enough years ago I started one to make a PR.X, and was using the lower cowl to make the PR deeper oil tank, by raising the exhaust position and top cowl line, and rescribing the lower lines! The wing is a bit too wide in the centre, and there various other small problems. It's not really horrible, see pic below. see pic , ICM left, Occidental right https://www.hyperscale.com/features/2000/spitfireixconstructionrs_1.htm also this which has my comments about doing the deeper PR cowl from it.... 2011... jeez. The idea of the PR cowl may well be of use for you though. HTH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 Thanks Troy (And Graham) for the great information. I think I will just stick with my plan of using one of my Ocidental Mk.IX Spitfires to use my Airwaves PR.XI conversion on. I really need to finish something, so I can show the model club guys I actually DO finish kits, once in a GREAT while. Larry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Archer Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Hi Larry! The Ocidental Spitfire IX has two issues which unfortunately ruin the kit ( for me at least). The first is the thrust line is too low, which means the prop and spinner sit too low on the airframe. There are resin noses ( Ron's Resins of Australia is one, which comes to mind). The second is the chord of the wing is too wide. The wing will be difficult to fix, you need to trim the trailing edge to correct the chord. The thrust line can be fixed by either the resin nose or by raising the spinner and shaping the nose. That alone will make the kit look 1000 times better. You can build it as is, it is your model, just do not put it next to an ICM or Eduard. If you are a recce freak, I have several recce Spitfires on i-Modeler. Bruce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 (edited) Thanks Bruce, I may just use the Ocidental Spitfires ( 2 ea Mk.IXe, 1 Mk.IXc) as "practice bleeding" Paint Mules. I also have an Otaki Spitfire Mk.8, 3 ICM Spitfires (One each Mk.VII, VIII & IX), 5 Airfix Spitfires (3 PR.XIX, 1 FR Mk.XIV & 1 Mk.I), an Airfix Seafire Mk.46/47, an Academy FR.Mk.XIVE, 3 Eduard Spitfires - a Mk.Ixc Late Version ProfiPACK, a Mk.IXe ProfiPACK, and a Mk.Ixc Early Version WEEKEND, 2 Monogram British Spitfire Mk.IXs, 4 Tamiya Supermarine Spitfire Mk.I & 1 Supermarine Spitfire Mk.Vb Trop. The one kit that should be "unmentioned" is my sole Hobbycraft Vickers Supermarine Seafire XV. Now that doesn't count the aftermarket recce Spitfire conversion sets I also have. Larry Edited February 21 by ReccePhreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 You could use one of the Occidental kits as a donor to improve the Otaki, Perhaps the gullwing root section, some cockpit bits, wheels, etc. If you do that, and fill/rescribe the ailerons to shorter spec correct for a VIII, the Otaki kit can still brush up nicely 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) On 21/02/2024 at 22:40, ReccePhreak said: I may just use the Ocidental Spitfires ( 2 ea Mk.IXe, 1 Mk.IXc) as "practice bleeding" Paint Mules. I don't always agree with Bruce on Spitfire details. Assuming you want to build the Occidental, and correct major flaws without buying correction parts. Nose. Take a spare ICM side cowling part, the kit has one moulded and one to be displayed separately, line up on the Occidental fuselage, you will see the entire engine section droops. Try drawing a line to see where the lower side panel should go (see point on deeper PR cowl) As the upper cowl is separate, you can just wedge this to the right height, and move up the exhaust stubs. use a spinner aligned to the new top cowling line, and draw on the correct position. Note while both the ICM and Eduard kits have duplicate upper and lower cowls, the ICM is narrow in the cowling and fuselage spine. And the ICM VII/VIII/IX are actually all the same kit. You can use leftover Eduard upper and lower cowls. The Eduard Merlin 60 (VIII/IV/XVI) kits are the best in scale so you can use that as a guide, and also raid for leftover parts to upgrade other kits. And, again, if you note how the new high position of the spinner, if you sand carefully, the 'wrong' lower cowl line for a IX, can be use to make the deeper oil tank line of the PRX and PR XI. An hour of comparing the various parts and test fitting them to each other hopefully will show you what I mean. the wing, is an easy fix The Occidental, Academy and original tool Tamiya Mk.I/Vb all have the same basic wing issue, it's too wide in the centre. this is an Academy wing with a white ICM wing, if you zoom the pic you can see the leading edge bulge. 50620909 by losethekibble, on Flickr Use the ICM as guide and trim Underneath you will need to fill and rescribe the flap line the left wing is as per the kit, the right wing has been corrected, I aligned the wing carefully over the cutting mat lines to show the change. 50620911 by losethekibble, on Flickr I've not rescribed the flap line. If the fixes don't work, use as a paint mule. I have one I was making into a PR.X in a box.... somewhere.... On 21/02/2024 at 22:40, ReccePhreak said: I also have an Otaki Spitfire Mk.8, 3 ICM Spitfires (One each Mk.VII, VIII & IX), 5 Airfix Spitfires (3 PR.XIX, 1 FR Mk.XIV & 1 Mk.I), an Airfix Seafire Mk.46/47, an Academy FR.Mk.XIVE, 3 Eduard Spitfires - a Mk.Ixc Late Version ProfiPACK, a Mk.IXe ProfiPACK, and a Mk.Ixc Early Version WEEKEND, 2 Monogram British Spitfire Mk.IXs, Want a surprise, try comparing the Monogram outlines with the Eduard, the old Mono kit while crude and very rivetty is very good in basic shapes. On 21/02/2024 at 22:40, ReccePhreak said: 4 Tamiya Supermarine Spitfire Mk.I & 1 Supermarine Spitfire Mk.Vb Trop. The old Tamiya is a bit slab sided and has the above wing issue On 21/02/2024 at 22:40, ReccePhreak said: The one kit that should be "unmentioned" is my sole Hobbycraft Vickers Supermarine Seafire XV. I can't recall the HC Seafire XV, I think it was OK, their Spitfire XIV is really good shape wise, just a bit basic.. There is an awful lot of ill informed opinion and misinformation about 1/48th Spitfire kits online, I spent a good amount of time doing comparisons and cross checking, and seeing how if and how kits could be fixed. Sadly I'd get as far as doing the fixes and then not finish the kit. The 'correction' set for the Academy XIV kit don't really fix it, as it require more surgery, but wierdly most of the panel lines are in the right place, and the problems are of parts being oversize, fixable by some reduction surgery. Spit academy nose mod DSCF0709_zpssziaklh8 by losethekibble, on Flickr 50620907 by losethekibble, on Flickr What you don't read is how most of the issues with the Academy kit also affect the Airfix Spitfire XII and Seafire XVII either... Just they don't have oversize spinners so the problem is less apparent. But that's not what you are asking about. HTH Edited February 23 by Troy Smith additions 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 9 hours ago, Troy Smith said: Want a surprise, try comparing the Monogram outlines with the Eduard, the old Mono kit while crude and very rivetty is very good in basic shapes. True in terms of silhouettes, but, like the Otaki kit needs some surgery to provide an underside gull-wing section. Which can be a good way to recycle parts of scrap projects or models that have been dusted to death, I have part of an old Airfix Vb which is now in an Otaki box for that purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 19 hours ago, Troy Smith said: I don't always agree with Bruce on Spitfire details. Assuming you want to build the Occidental, and correct major flaws without buying correction parts. Nose. Take a spare ICM side cowling part, the kit has one moulded and one to be displayed separately, line up on the Occidental fuselage, you will see the entire engine section droops. Try drawing a line to see where the lower side panel should go (see point on deeper PR cowl) As the upper cowl is separate, you can just wedge this to the right height, and move up the exhaust stubs. use a spinner aligned to the new top cowling line, and draw on the correct position. Note while both the ICM and Eduard kits have duplicate upper and lower cowls, the ICM is narrow in the cowling and fuselage spine. And the ICM VII/VIII/IX are actually all the same kit. You can use leftover Eduard upper and lower cowls. The Eduard Merlin 60 (VIII/IV/XVI) kits are the best in scale so you can use that as a guide, and also raid for leftover parts to upgrade other kits. And, again, if you note how the new high position of the spinner, if you sand carefully, the 'wrong' lower cowl line for a IX, can be use to make the deeper oil tank line of the PRX and PR XI. An hour of comparing the various parts and test fitting them to each other hopefully will show you what I mean. the wing, is an easy fix The Occidental, Academy and original tool Tamiya Mk.I/Vb all have the same basic wing issue, it's too wide in the centre. this is an Academy wing with a white ICM wing, if you zoom the pic you can see the leading edge bulge. 50620909 by losethekibble, on Flickr Use the ICM as guide and trim Underneath you will need to fill and rescribe the flap line the left wing is as per the kit, the right wing has been corrected, I aligned the wing carefully over the cutting mat lines to show the change. 50620911 by losethekibble, on Flickr I've not rescribed the flap line. If the fixes don't work, use as a paint mule. I have one I was making into a PR.X in a box.... somewhere.... Want a surprise, try comparing the Monogram outlines with the Eduard, the old Mono kit while crude and very rivetty is very good in basic shapes. The old Tamiya is a bit slab sided and has the above wing issue I can't recall the HC Seafire XV, I think it was OK, their Spitfire XIV is really good shape wise, just a bit basic.. There is an awful lot of ill informed opinion and misinformation about 1/48th Spitfire kits online, I spent a good amount of time doing comparisons and cross checking, and seeing how if and how kits could be fixed. Sadly I'd get as far as doing the fixes and then not finish the kit. The 'correction' set for the Academy XIV kit don't really fix it, as it require more surgery, but wierdly most of the panel lines are in the right place, and the problems are of parts being oversize, fixable by some reduction surgery. Spit academy nose mod DSCF0709_zpssziaklh8 by losethekibble, on Flickr 50620907 by losethekibble, on Flickr What you don't read is how most of the issues with the Academy kit also affect the Airfix Spitfire XII and Seafire XVII either... Just they don't have oversize spinners so the problem is less apparent. But that's not what you are asking about. HTH Troy, THANKS for the very informative post. I will have to print it out so I can keep it in the kit's boxes, for when I get back to working on them. "Too many irons in the fire" for me. One nice thing about being permanently retired, I can work on whichever kit I feel like, whenever I like. It will also help me reduce my "stash" faster, by cannibalizing other kits for parts. Larry Larry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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