Swordfish Mk. I Colors -- Beale

[Seawinder]

I'm finally getting around to starting the Tamiya 1/48 kit and would like to do markings option B for Lt. A.W.D. Beale during the Bismarck attack. Although Tamiya calls for Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey (all upper surfaces) over Sky Grey, from what I've read the lower color should be Sky. Can that be confirmed? Also, while Tamiya gives "Squadron unknown" for Beale, am I correct in thinking it was 810 Sqn. off of Ark Royal?

Thanks! Pip

[Dervish]

Yes, in aircraft 2P.

[iang]

It was a Fairey built Swordfish which left the factory in overall aluminium dope and camouflaged in service in the summer or autumn of 1939. It's very likely that it would still have been finished in this original camouflage scheme at the time of the Bismarck attack   - Sky-Grey under surfaces, with shadow shading on the upper surfaces (Dark Sea Grey and Light Slate Grey on the lower mainplanes and area of the fuselage below the mainplane and Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey on the upper mainplanes). This scheme was modified in service to extend the camouflage to the fin and rudder when the full width, full height, national markings on the fin were reduced in size and the codes were moved from the fin to the fuselage (in October 1940). I have only ever seen one photograph of a Fairey built Swordfish which clearly shows repainted under-surfaces (probably Sky), so I think it unlikely that Beale's Swordfish would have been repainted with Sky under-surfaces. 

[Seawinder]

Thank you iang. Is it possible to describe the fuselage demarcation between upper and lower colors? The Tamiya instructions call for somewhat wavy lines sweeping up from lower wing leading edge to nose and from lower wing trailing edge to horizontal tail leading edge. I have a feeling that Fairey-built aircraft had a different scheme. Also, the Tamiya instructions only show wing upper surface camouflage patterns for the port side. Are there any diagrams online or elsewhere that show the entire wing surfaces?

Thanks again!

[iang]

810 Squadron 2P: L2826. 

 

I have three photos of this aircraft taken after October 1940 - all showing the starboard side. One of these is an in flight photo that shows the upper mainplane demarcation fairly well.  It's  nothing like the pattern given in the Tamiya instructions for kit 48068 (which gives a camouflage painting guide for the entire aircraft). Originally, the camouflage of Swordfish was based on the Air Diagram drawn for the Blackburn Shark in May 1939, and it was this that should  have been sent to service units to provide the camouflage pattern for Swordfish in the summer and early autumn of 1939.  There was also an Air Diagram for the Blackburn Shark produced in January 1935 that differed considerably from the May 1939 version. Both are reproduced in my book (pp.30/31).  The existence of two different Air Diagrams, both of which were originally intended for a different aircraft that had to be interpreted by units applying camouflage to Swordfish, probably explains the wide variety of camouflage patterns and demarcation evident in front-line Swordfish squadrons in the early part of the war. Once Blackburn started producing Swordfish in 1941, they all left the factory with camouflage applied and there is little variation evident. 

 

The demarcation on L2826 shows more similarities to the January 1935 Blackburn Shark Air Diagram than the later May 1939 Air Diagram. Note too that the latter calls for a straight demarcation between upper and lower camouflage colours on the fuselage sides (evident on quite a number of front-line Swordfish 1939-41), whereas the former has a wavy fuselage demarcation, which is a pretty good match for the pattern seen on L2826. Codes were black (no white outline) and entirely contained on the Sky-Grey of the fuselage, repeated on the undersurface of the upper mainplane. 

 

One last thing to note about L2826 is that  the "Royal Navy" legend was applied forward of the fuselage roundel.

 

 

[Seawinder]

@iang, that's hugely helpful. A few more questions, if I may:

1. Since Tamiya supplies a totally wrong serial (V4372) for TP, I'm going to have to make decals for L2826. The Tamiya decal has the serial the same size as the "Royal Navy" legend, around 3/32 inch tall, which scales to about 4.5 inches. However, the serial for another markings option is about 3/16 inch tall, or scale 9 inches. I'm thinking maybe that's what the size should be?

 

2. Tamiya's decal for "2P" uses a typeface with straight-ish strokes and rounded edges, so the loop of the "P" looks like a rectangle with rounded edges. This is different from the serial, which has more uniformly rounded strokes. Based on your photo, should the serial and the code use the same typeface, and if so, which one?

 

3. I have no visual references for the placement of the code (2P?) on the undersurface of the upper wing. Can you say how large and where placed?

 

Thanks again!

[iang]

@Seawinder I've just sent you two low-res images that should help answer your questions.

 

1. It would originally of had 8 inch serials, but they have been re-applied after the camouflage colours were applied. They look like 4 inch serials -  larger than the "Royal Navy" legend, which looks to be about half that size. 

2. Under enlargement, the "P" is a rectangle with rounded edges (both on the fuselage and under the top mainplane)

3. About half way between the outer strut and the wing tip and just set back from the leading edge. The code is more than half the size of the fuselage code.

 

One further point on the codes. I don't know the date of these photos other than they are after October 1940. I've other undated photos of 810 Swordfish  - 2F and 2A - which also have black codes. However, photos of 2M in April 1941 show a white outline to the black code. So it could be that by April 1941 all 810 Swordfish had white outlines to the fuselage code.

[Seawinder]

Thank you Ian!

[Seawinder]

Any thoughts about the color of the interplane struts? Most kit instructions appear to show Extra Dark Sea Grey, but I'm thinking it might have made sense for them to have been painted whatever lower wing color surrounded the strut -- in this case either Dark Sea Grey or Light Slate Grey. OTOH, if the struts were manufactured/painted apart from the airframe, a consistent color would also make sense. The struts in the head-on photo Ian sent me look very light -- maybe even Sky Grey? -- but they're strongly sunlit.

Thanks again. Pip

[iang]

They were suppose to be painted the colour they were fixed to - so Light Slate Grey  or Dark Sea Grey. However, I've seen quite a few that look to be Sky-Grey. In the case of 810:2P they appear to be camouflaged  on the bottom half, but Sky-Grey on the top half, but it's hard to tell for sure.

[Seawinder]

Yes, in the head-on shot I think I'm seeing half-and-half as well. The two inner starboard struts seem to show it pretty clearly, and the sun appears to be nearly overhead, so it's unlikely that the top ends, being in the shadow of the wing, would look lighter unless they were painted lighter.

[Nobby Clarke]

I also have the Tamiya 1/48 Swordfish Mk.I in my stash. I'm wondering what my best options are for an accurate set of aftermarket decals for a Stringbag from Ark Royal that was engaged in the attack on the Bismark. From the discussion above, it appears that Tamiya's decals are incorrect (representing the wrong aircraft) as well as the paint scheme and camouflage diagram. I would really appreciate some inputs from the forum with some accurate painting charts if possible.

[Seawinder]

15 hours ago, Nobby Clarke said:

I also have the Tamiya 1/48 Swordfish Mk.I in my stash. I'm wondering what my best options are for an accurate set of aftermarket decals for a Stringbag from Ark Royal that was engaged in the attack on the Bismark. From the discussion above, it appears that Tamiya's decals are incorrect (representing the wrong aircraft) as well as the paint scheme and camouflage diagram. I would really appreciate some inputs from the forum with some accurate painting charts if possible.

Nobby, I assume iang won't object to my sharing the photos with you that he shared with me. I apparently can't attach the files to a PM, so email me at pnmoss47 [at] gmail [dot] com and I'll send them to you.

 

Definitely read the rest of the posts in this thread for more useful information. I went with the camouflage diagram for the Blackburn Shark mentioned above. It's fairly easy to find online. I also went with shadow shading (Dark Sea Grey/Light Slate Grey) for the lower wing, and Sky Grey for the under surfaces.

Edited February 20 by Seawinder

[Nobby Clarke]

email sent.