iang

possible 806 Rocs May 1940: L3065 4/40 L3075:L6R L3103 2/40 (under repair 5/40) L3105:L6R L3106 4/40 L3118 4-5/40 (coded O later with 759 Sq) L3154 3/40 (coded W at some point) L3156 3-5/40 (though recorded with 806 before 29/5). I may have missed others. Several of these only have recorded service history with 806 before 5/40, though that doesn't mean they definitely were not with 806 in late May. Two were coded R, so probably not those. If I was guessing from this list, I'd go with L3118.

I've a copy of the Operational Records Book for 806 Squadron while at Detling. The combat with five Ju88s on 29 May was with Skuas/Roc 806:C, Q, M. The Roc is not identified, but the usual practice in mixed Skua/Roc squadrons was for the Roc flight to be coded as the 4th flight (P, Q, R), so I'm pretty confident that Day/Newton would have been in Q. The separate Admiralty Report on the action, lists them as being part of Yellow section, which is not inconsistent with Q being the Roc. What I have been unable to find is Day/Newton's Combat Report for 29 May. I have the Combat Reports for 806 Skua operations attacking Bergen in the middle of May and these give all the serials for Blue and Red section Skuas, so if the Combat Report for 29 May can be located, it will almost certainly record the serial. Rocs weren't used in the Bergen attacks because of their more limited range. I have photographs of 806:6F and 806:6C while at Detling. 806:6Q would almost certainly have been marked in the same way. The camouflage was S1E with high straight demarcation. Codes were 6x arranged vertically over a narrow 3/4 height fin flash. The fin flash consisted of narrow blue and red sections with a wider white section (about 1.5x the blue or red sections). There was a small Sky-Grey gap between the rudder post and the fin flash and a small triangle of Sky-Grey rudder visible in front of the red section and above the top of the flash. The codes look to have been narrowly outlined in white. This code arrangement is different from the common photos of 806 Roc coded L6R vertically on the fin with no flash, and from the codes applied to 806 when they joined Illustrious (single letters on the fuselage). I think the arrangement I describe is unique to the period at Detling, after fin flash and yellow concentric to the fuselage roundel was mandated. HTH

For those who prefer their Floatfish camouflaged, this is supposedly L9767 camouflaged at Aboukir in 1941/2. By this stage the aircraft in the photograph was named "Diana". However, the serial is not legible so this could be fanciful. I don't tend to trust the ID unlike I can read the serial: Swordfish on Warspite were allocated codes C8A and C8B. This is one of two original photos I own of C8C in the Mediterranean. I think this is K8363 from HMS Valiant, with the full code repeated under the mainplane (The serial is 90% legible in the other photo): When Warspite's Floatfish were eventually camouflaged, the full C8A and C8B codes do not appear to have been carried - only the letter A, and presumably B, on the fin, repeated under the mainplane. (I don't have a photo of B in this series - maybe "B" was the camera plane): Warspite was allocated two Floatfish at this time - L9767 and K8864. C8A should have been K8864 linked to above in silver dope, but in high resolution the serial in this photo of "A" looks more like L9767 to me. Moreover, K8864 did not have red warning strips on the floats whereas L9767 did..... Of course, the camouflage looks nothing like the Aboukir photo.

Indeed. As an example, I have a photo of Enterprise at Trincomalee in 1942 with Seafox embarked, still in silver dope - 3 years after the Admiralty issued the first instruction to camouflage FAA aircraft.

They are all in my book😀

Difficult to argue that the aircraft in IWM A36 and A45 are in silver dope (unless A45 shows shadow rather than camouflage). However, HMS Furious had a striking force of 10 Swordfish over Narvik on 13 April, bombing and then circling the combat zone for 90 minutes (two were shot down). Furious' Swordfish were most definitely camouflaged.

There is a slightly better reproduction of the damaged tailplane photo in Haarr's The German invasion of Norway p.367. Just on the basis of this one photo the Swordfish is unambiguously in silver dope. The whole series (which I've seen) are at TNA. Moreover, when Warspite arrived in the Mediterranean, her Swordfish were still uncamouflaged and remained so for some time - possibly well into 1941. I have a clear photo of another of Warspite's Swordfish - K8864 - in Alexandria harbour in silver dope with full width fin flash and yellow concentric to the fuselage roundel (added in May 1940), but still no code or camouflage. This aircraft can be seen here on shore: https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/swordfish/swordfish-700-hms-warspite/ So for me at least there are no doubts about the finish of L9767 at the second battle of Narvik.

Very nice Gladiator

There are two photos taken from L9767 on 13th April 1940 in Harrison's The Swordfish at War p.22. These are two from a series of at least six. The Harrison photos are not the clearest of the series, but they show an uncamouflaged airframe.

I'll see if I can find the photos taken from L9767 that show the airframe

lovely build and finish

There's a clear photo in my book for Jan/Feb 1940, which is how the airframe appeared at the time of Narvik. Photos taken from L9767 during the Narvik operation show that the airframe was not camouflaged. The only doubt surrounds whether the code was applied between the earlier photo and Narvik. The balance of evidence suggests it was uncoded at this time and that codes were not applied until Warspite arrived in the Mediterranean.

Really nice!

I've the two AJ Press volumes on the K-Class cruisers and in one volume there is a set of inserted folded plans in 1/350 that shows Karlsruhe in 1939/40 with steel decks (plan and profile views). If you message me with an email address, I'll send you a copy.

This is another lockdown project that has been sitting on the Shelf of Doom for a few years. I'm hoping that starting a WiP will encourage me to make some progress with it. The first steps are the construction of the fuselage internals. This requires attaching each vertical former to the resin fuselage, having first removed them for a thin backing sheet and sanded each one down: This is a time consuming and fairly tedious job. After several hours, I've ended up with this, with the front decking and pilot's position and seat installed. I've left out quite a lot of the detail parts that will not be painted Interior Green, and will install those later when the interior of the fuselage has been painted: Obviously, the formers and bulkheads have to be adjusted so as to allow the fuselage halves to close. The large bulkhead separating the Observer's position and Wireless Operator's station demands a lot of fettling. I probably should have taken more off of the port side before fitting as the fuselage is hard to close to get a perfect join: I suspect with a little more sanding on the starboard side of the large bulkhead, the joint can be improved. This is where I got to by the end of lockdown. It's an impressive kit, with outstanding detail, but I suspect it is going to be a difficult and long-winded build.

I've just resurrected this thread, updating the dead photo links etc. and changing the subject of the model. Progress has been made recently: I don't seem to have saved any photos of the painted cockpit. I removed the Aerocraft struts for convenience as i'll go over the paintwork with a micro sanding sponge to remove dust when the paint has fully cured before post shading - there is no pre-shading applied to the model. All painted with Colourcoat enamels and a Badger 200. I used a least one photo of N5567 in my book, but have since discovered several new ones including one very clear photo taken from the rear starboard quarter. The Light Slate Grey/Dark Sea Grey shadow shading appears to have been applied to the rear fuselage and tailplanes (Admiralty instructions called for Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey in these areas). More later in the week hopefully.

Peter, some lovely work going on in this part of the model. I've tried to find a photograph that shows this area and the best I can do is from a fly past from a Swordfish, that I've scanned at high res and cropped. I'm struggling to see clear evidence of the flange. Maybe there is something there, but it's just not clear because the image is not sharp enough?

I believe that photo was taken at Trincomalee. I've quite a few photos of Illustrious class carriers in the anchorage that match the topography seen in the Dorsetshire photo.

No. 1830 operated on Illustrious in home waters in late 1943 before heading to the Indian Ocean in January 1944, arriving at Trincomalee at the end of that month. I assume the photo of 7R is from that time period. However, the style of code seems to have remained the same until 1830 adopted A7x codes at the end of 1944, though of course the roundels were modified for service with the BIEF. Illustrious didn't arrive in the Pacific until February 1945.

Agree that 1833 codes 6x were solid white, but 1830 codes 7x look to be red outlined in white until Operation Robson (December 1944), when they become A7x red outlined in white. I can't find a photo I can positively identify as Operation Crimson (July 1944) showing 7x coded Corsairs, but IWM A 24709 for Operation Pedal (June 1944), shows 7x Corsairs (red outlined in white). I'm not sure of the date of IWM A20999, but the photo of 7R looks to show the code style reasonably well https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205186853

Outstanding model and photography.

Very nice!

Peter, the sketches look good, but perhaps it is a little too elongated in plan view?

I'm not sure how the confusion arose Angus, but my guess is that they were interpreted as blue because on ortho film the dark grey of the diamonds "matches" the blue of the roundel. It then gets repeated and becomes a factoid. There is also confusion about fin colours. Solid black was used as a section leader or squadron leader marking pre-war. I've not found any written evidence for the use of solid yellow as a leader marking, though lack of evidence is not absence of proof.

Lovely Gladiator. The modifications you made really made a difference and the rigging looks great. It's a pity that decal manufacturer's continue to produced 802 NAS decals with blue diamonds, rather than than yellow (which is the correct colour for the wing markings of Glorious' aircraft).