Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds

[Totally Mad Olivier]

5 hours ago, Roy vd M. said:

Olivier if you send me the lighter version of Photo 7 I'll add it as well

No problem, Roy, I will as soon as possible. As I ever said above, personally, 7A lightened is my favorite version of photo 7. It shows more details in lightened version, as most of the photos, and particularly photo 9.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph
Correction

[NickD]

Hannes,

 

Just to be sure you have understood, though I think you have, the orange lines above are derived from the photographs not the drawing. The drawing was used as a starting point but the lines represent the photos.

 

They are very accurate compared to any other method we have.

 

The frame is taken from the modified drawing two and is really shown just for reference. Note, the alignment there is also pretty good (I just have not finished that comparison yet)

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Great job Nick, thank you, that will be very helpful...

[Hannes]

Today I´m about to delay the openings for the rear axis . Because I´m working with my Protar metal body it´s necessary to use a support sheet if I want to close greater gaps.

For these purposes a very thin brass sheet  ( 0,1 mm ! ) is very useful.

After removing the primer at the inside of the body at the required place I can glue the exact cut - out sheet .

The other side will get filled with styrene strips and filler and even the brass sheet is very thin it enables a stable construction.

I´ll do similar when elongating the bonnets .The brass sheet can made invisible by adapting works.

My new openings will become smaller in width and shorter in height .

For greater works like this I always use a 2-component Polyester filler .It stinks and you have to be quick , but it´s way  better as a plastic filler imho.

Many greetings !  Hannes

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Photo 7 lightened without any label, that you can add to the first page, Roy.

[sharknose156]

for all intent and purposes i found this picture, from watching the video on Telford IPMS 2016.

 

The builder is unknown to the picture, but i salute his work nevertheless.

 

This is an excellent representation OOB even if we know it is not the real proportions, wheels and grille and louvres etc of the real 806 are different. It can help us ( me at least ) understand the differences better.

He correctly painted the chassis red. My red will be slightly lighter.

 

Nevertheless this builder went all the way and i think it deserves respect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hannes]

That´s a Protar with one spoke missing on the front wheel and without hooks for the bonnets,A clean standard build : I don´t know why , but metal under the paint always looks better as plastic even it can´t be seen .  Liebe Grüsse !  Hannes

[NickD]

Hannes,

 

I went back and had a look at photo 3. It is the clearest about what happens where the body transitions into the radiator case. To my eye, the body is nearly the width of the frame at the junction between the bonnet and the radiator case. It quickly narrows until approximately the location of the obvious line of fasteners. From there forwards it is parallel with the frame until it curves into the grill. Is that what you see too?

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Totally Mad Olivier]

News from Paul today. He made a HR version of the double page with photo 4. Pity, as we could expect, he can't improve the document itself. But I think the 2 following photos (very heavy, 2,5 Mo each) should be better than our previous ones (I did not take the time to compare in detail, but I think it really is)

As I said above, I am sure the original "photo 4" was quite good, because it is taken with a tripod not far from the car, by a professional (see photo 23C on p.1). If we could find the way to get a HR version of that original, it would represent a very important step, because we have very few photos of the left side.

Roy, I think you should add these 2 photos to the opening page.

Sorry Hannes, Paul did not send me the double page with the photo you wanted.

 

 

Dear Olivier and Issam:

 

Here are my efforts. The picture in the magazine is printed in dot-matrix format on poor paper. The pictures are not sharp. 

 

As you can see in the high resolution jpeg the dots are prominent. I tried different settings of Jpeg and I also tried  different setting in PDF both with and without descreeing.

 

I hope this helps you. 

 

I have a request of you-since this is such a wonderful project could you send some pictures of the final project ?

 

The best

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

And my answer:

Thank you so much Paul.

About your request, do you mean you would like us to send you photos of our builds when they will be over?

If that’s right, the reply is yes, of course. I hope my build will be over around may.

With Hannes, we should probably be the first ones in the world to recreate a very close from truth model of that car, that was meaning a kind of sunset for Fiat in G.P.

I would like to write a detailed article about all aspects - historical, technical and of course building with many modifications -. 

As I said to you, I have written an article for the french modelers magazine T2M (Tamiya Model Magazine International) about a build of the Chevy Bel Air 1957 Convertible. If you wish, I can send it to you by We transfer.

The editor in chief of the french version told me my article should be published in the english version of the magazine soon.

I asked him as a favor to get one ex. for me.

And if, for the 806 build, I write as well an article - the subject would deserve much more than 7 pages!-, of course I will send it to you, as I will send one to Sebastien Faures, who helped me too, and who wrote the excellent book: Fiat en Grand Prix: 1920-1930.

 

If I did not understand your request, thank you to precise what it was.

 

All the best

 

Olivier

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph
add

[Hannes]

Dear Nick seen from the top view on drawing 2 the frame is thin at it´s frontal end , gets thicker and after it bends thinner again : I´m not sure if the case´s side walls are parallel or not  . On photo 3 they seem to be slanted a bit and possibly bended by 90 degrees to the inside , so the case could lay at the top of the frame a bit . But I´m not sure :  Many greetings !  Hannes

[Roy vd M.]

Added to the opening post:

 

- Alternative version of Photo 7 (7F)

- Replacement (!) of Photo 4B

- New Photo 25

- New Photo 26

- New Photo 27

[Hannes]

Dear Paul , dear Olivier , dear Sam ,dear Roy , these pictures are great !   Many  many thanks for your efforts ! Even if old  photos are not too sharp , the whole picture becomes much  sharper and clearer ! 

I did not expect the first photo to be  in such a good quality !  Hannes

[NickD]

Chaps,

Conscience got the better of me. Here are versions of the pictures which I think are undistorted.

 

 

Hopefully this is now right.

Regards

 

Nick

[Roy vd M.]

That looks beautiful Nick.

[Hannes]

Dear Nick , this really helps. Many thanks to you too ! The cam´s fairings of the bonnets are half a circle , on our ki they are only about a third of a circle . That´s interesting too besides the shape of the radiator case !  Many greetings from good old Germany !  Hannes

[NickD]

Chaps,

 

Thanks - glad it's useful. Sorry it's so slow - I've been distracted by the engine.

 

Just had a closer look at the various photos of the radiator. Hannes - the radiator case does seem to taper in plan view as you suggested.

 

Nick

[NickD]

One final thing - those fairings on the bonnet are very odd looking - not sure I have them right yet but it is not obvious what if anything I have done wrong.

 

Nick

[Hannes]

Dear Nick , photo 12 seems to show the solution ! As you said the case tapers a tiny bit and seems to sit on the frame. It´s logical because 2 bolts on each side won´t hold the whole case with it´s radiator alone !

Regarding the cam´s fairings : The transition to the rest of the bonnet is not so " sharp " compared to the kit´s bonnets and that´s one reason it looks more cone- shaped

Unfortunately the wheels are hiding a direct side-view . But photo 12 shows us their extensions and their shapes show about a half circle as we can see on your photogrammetry !  Many greetings !  Hannes

[Roy vd M.]

Actually Photo 12 doesn't show a half circle per se, at least the left hand side. The way I see it, it looks more like a 'V' on its side. On that point I think Nick's photogrammetry might be subject to slight improvement if I interpret Photo 12 correctly (which I'm not sure of).

 

This would also explain the abrupt light-shadow transition in Photos 4 and 7.

 

Photos 1, 2, 3 and 9 seem to point out that the right hand side camshaft fairing was much more rounded.

 

If these assumptions are correct, then the conclusion is simple: the fairings left and right were not symmetrical. Check this by comparing the lining of the '5' in Photos 9 and 7 for example. Not sure how to interpret what I see in Photo 21 yet. 

[Hannes]

Dear Roy , if a slow-motion of the film could get realized ( only showing our car! ) that could be a great help ! I don´t now if this can be done or Luce would not allow to do so .

Many greetings !  Hannes

[Totally Mad Olivier]

New check after little modif.: here, instead of measures, I draw volumes and compare them. I have a big contradiction between the photo 1 and the photo 4 about the shape of the cockpit left side: on this photo, it should be decreased. On the photo 4 and photo 7, it should absolutely not. I am much more confident on photo 4 and photo 7 about this parameter. Maybe the photo 1 was retouched at this level in order to highlight Pietro Bordino, on a white background.

Having added 0,5 mm thick plate on the frame (partially), I have created a gap of the body at the frame angle level. But the volumes 2 and 3 of the body under the fairing seem higher on my build and maybe I can solve the problem by decreasing a bit more the body. I recall I have ever removed around 5mm of height on my body. But unless this photo 1 is distorted, it really shows a VERY LOW BODY. I hope my engine set will take place in a still lowered body...

 

 

this other comparison with photo 4 shows a very different cockpit shape on left side, compared with photo 1. We have the same shape on photo 7, a very closed cockpit on left side, with the body that rises very high. Another question about this comparison: my fairing doesn't it rise a little too much?

 

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph
correction

[Totally Mad Olivier]

These 2 photos were taken before the 2 ones above.

 

 

Photo 1: this detail (the plate with 4 screws) is much too thick. 

 

 

 

 

Photo 2: It has been fine tuned by sanding and the 4 screws have been made from 0,25 mm thick card and 0,9 mm Punch and die...

Notice on this photo the reinforcement in the inside of the cockoit where it was cut. The same was done on right side. It was necessary because of the low thickness of the plastic, that meant fragility...

Notice too that I have modified my seat fairing, lowered (see above). 

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph
correction

[Hannes]

Today I´m doing adjustment works regarding the frame .

Because the frame is the foundation of our construction the adjustment is very important .

A kits frame can get twisted very easily so correction works are necessary very often.

To do that I use 1,4 mm thread wire ,3 mm brass tubes ( inside 1, 5 mm ) ,washers and nuts

At 5 places there will be struts now so I can judge width , vertical and horizontal situation and the correct .adjustment of the radiator case .

Many greetings !  Hannes

[Totally Mad Olivier]

2 enlargements of the front rear leaf spring stand, that I have to scratchbuild: the 1st one is LR but more clear, the second one HR but more dark...

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph
add

[sharknose156]

Dear Olivier

 

Great work really.

Minor fine tunes as you say but no major surgery.

 

 

Dear Hannes

 

Sounds good and intense,

 

when and if possible a small sketch  ?? ( blue and red   ) would go a long way to understand where these modifs you deem essential to the frame will take place ? if possible would be am sure appreciated by us all.