AFV 1/48 AH-64D Apache Longbow

[L4byr1nth]

(***Ok, not really sure if it's the right section for this, as I'm pretty new to Britmodeller, but here goes anyway...***)

Hello everyone!

For those of you who didn't see my new member thread, I'm Ben.

I'm a 22 year old music student from Brighton who went through a modelling phase about 10 - 12 years ago. Built mainly 1/72 and 1/48 tanks and jet fighters. Was never very good at the painting side of things, but loved the construction of kits.

So, weirdly, I've caught the bug again. Not sure how, or why, but I found myself dredging internet forums for all the information I could find on the hobby as it stands now. As it turns out, things have changed quite a bit since I was building that 1/48 Sepecat Jaguar on my bedroom floor at the grand old age of 11...

I am into Japanese Ground Self Defense Force helicopters, and as such, was looking for the Hasegawa 1/48 AH-64D Apache Longbow JGSDF. Most shops online were out of stock, but there were a few on eBay. Decided to pop down to my local today anyway, seeing as I've never actually been there before.

(***Here begins a short consumers review of LSA Models, on Sackville Road, Hove.***)

Arrived at the shop around 1:00 PM. It was very easy to find, and very close to a central shopping area (George Street), so easy to get to by public transport.

Jason, although suffering with a sore throat, was quick to answer my questions about Hasegawa kits, informing me that he doesn't get many in (especially not the JGSDF kits, because apparently they just don't sell well over here ). He showed me the store (I was surprised at just how many kits he has in there!), and pointed out the various Revell and Italeri kits he had that I might be interested in. They didn't really take my fancy, though.

Nevertheless, when he heard how I was interested in 1/48 helos, he pointed at the open carboard box full of kits right at the front of the shop, remembering that he'd just had a brand new one in today. This one took my eye, and I was impressed at both the detail of the parts and what was included - a long way away from the kits I used to put together!

I also bought some Tamiya Masking Tape and some Mr. Cement Deluxe. The overall prices were very reasonable - I did not feel like I paid over the odds for anything - even when compared to online prices, which was excellent. The free modelling advice I got as we quickly looked through the kit (superglue on greaseproof paper - who'dve thunk it?!) was amazing, and useful for a neo-beginner like me.

(***Pictures of the kit, my thoughts, and ways to go about it...***)

Oooh, what's in the bag?

Awesome! Swanky box, too!

Limited Edition - 800 sets? Cool.

Decals

Photo-etch

Manual and sprue key

Sprues

Squishy PVC tyres!

Ok, so this is based on the Academy kit, with some extra stuff thrown in, I take it. Having never seen the original Academy kit, I'm not sure whether or not it comes in the fetching US Olive Drab green coloured sprues as well?

If it truely is a limited edition, then it kind of puts me off building it for a first kit. No matter, though, I'll be doing it anyway (I'm a student and thus lack common sense).

Decals are nice and detailed. I've never seen photo-etch before, but it's gorgeous! A lot of it, too - cockpit interior will look great with it on.

PVC tyres! What a novel idea! Not sure if this is new or not (probably the latter), but it certainly wasn't around when I was last modelling. They look great - well moulded. Plus they're squishy!

This is going to be a slowwwwwwww build. I've got exams in a couple of weeks, and my dissertation to write and hand in. Plus I need to get myself an airbrush and some paints (Tamiya Acrylics, probably).

Haven't heard anything about this kit coming out, and I haven't seen it online, but it's great - really well detailed, good value for money.

Ben.

Edited April 16, 2010 by L4byr1nth

[Mark M]

welcome, im looking forward to you build, i recently build the revel version and its fit was pants!

[L4byr1nth]

The Revell one looked a bit basic, and I didn't see an Airfix one there, so that's why I didn't plump for that one.

Was the Revell one ok apart from the fit? I'm looking to get a Revell 1/48 AH-1F Cobra, but not sure (previous bad experiences with their kits, if I recall correctly!).

Ben.

[Mike]

(***Ok, not really sure if it's the right section for this, as I'm pretty new to Britmodeller, but here goes anyway...***)

Tis... full marks for common sense Ben

[L4byr1nth]

Cheers Mike

Just gently cleaning the parts in warm water with a drop of washing up liquid.

Not sure I can ruin anything at this stage, so the kit is still safe

Ben.

[Troffa]

Thanks for posting the box shots Ben, as I had heard about the AFV club boxing of the old Academy kit and was intrigued as to what they had done as far as the photo-etch was concerned.

Unfortunately it looks like a few corners have been cut as far as AFV's research is concerned as the etch instrument panels are clearly not for a "D" model, lacking as they do the displays which differentiate the D crewstations from the analogue A model.

There are a few other issues with the Academy source kit as far as its D model credentials, but it goes together quite nicely, and that decal set looks pretty good as well.

Looking forward to seeing your build, and welcome to Britmodeller!

[shark 64]

Welcome.

Cant wait to see it build. Looks like this kit comes with a lot of good stuff.

Oliver

Edited April 16, 2010 by shark 64

[L4byr1nth]

Thanks for the welcome everyone!

Troffa: the pictures aren't great, but hopefully anyone looking at buying this kit can now see most of what's included?

It's a shame about the inaccuracies that you've spotted, but at least it makes me less worried about messing up the kit.

It's only a warm-up to that Hasegawa 1/48 AH-64D JGSDF (when I find it!).

Ben.

Edited April 16, 2010 by L4byr1nth

[crookedmouth]

I shall have to watch this one. Good luck with the exams BTW.

[L4byr1nth]

Right, you 'orrible lot...

I've now finished worrying whether I've bitten off more than I can chew with this kit (was wondering whether to stash it and build some 1/72 'til I was confident enough... then I decided that this approach was for girls!), and am ready to start my tongue-in-cheek build, so here goes.

In an effort to document my build with pictures as is the fashion on these boards, it seems, I'll be using my lovely Nikon D500 with 18mm - 55mm kit lens. I have a variety of flash guns, studio lights, portaflashes, slave controllers, tripods, gripods, backgrounds, etc., but I'll be using natural light for the most part (I'm a lazy sod).

Here's my scavenged set of tools I found around the house - probably left over from my little brother's (I say little, he's only a year younger than me!) Citadel phase. I have a feeling that matching the tool best suited to the particular job at hand is going to be a bit like that scene from Apollo 13...

As you can see, I have a red Citadel branded 'Basecoat Brush'. This is the larger of the two, and appears to be brand new, still in the protective cover, with no paint residue at all. The other brush, which is the blue Citadel Games Workshop branded one, is a 'Fine Detail Brush' - although it still looks huge when comparing it to that photo-etch! This is used, and looks knackered - might thin it out a little by trimming it down, and re-point the end.

I also have a green modeller's file that looks like it'll go through plastic just fine, a pot of Mr. Cement Deluxe, some Tamiya Masking Tape in 10mm flavour, Loctite precision super glue (dad's - hurr hurr hurr), and a small Stanley Knife (the red thing), which is blunt, rusty, and paint-covered. Great.

I still have no airbrush or paints, so my plan is to put the cockpit together, then wait 'til I can get some paints to build the rest.

Musn't forget sustenance...

Relentless Juiced: Energy, and Rockstar Energy Cola. Yum yum yum!

Alrighty then. Step 1 is this -

Looks simple enough - remove the cockpit pieces from the sprue, and stick them together. Even I can do that... I think!

But wait, what's that funny little icon in the bottom left corner of the picture? Lets refer to the instruction key;

'Optional', eh? I suppose this would be where I'd use those fancy parts AFV included in the kit. And what's the point in having the limited edition kit, if you don't use the limited edition parts, right?

Oh...kayyyy..... I think I get it.

That other little icon means 'Remove'. So I guess it's asking me to file off the detail from the cockpit part...

...and the cockpit base part...

...and replace it all with photo-etch from the brass sprue...

...as well as removing the harnesses from the seats and replacing those, too.

Right. This could go badly very quickly. I wonder if I could get away with just sticking the etch over the top of the existing stuff... Hmmmm... but then there'd be a gap, and it'd look rubbish.

Could fill it? ...Nah - s'probably best to follow the instructions - AFV Club know what they're talking about, I bet.

Ben.

[TonyT]

Brilliant Guide and review mate, keep it up

[L4byr1nth]

Thanks for the kind words Tony!

Here is the cockpit with what I can only assume is the main rotor assembley fitted to it.

I have also installed what must be footrests or rudder control pedals (Do helicopters have those? Who knows!).

Right, as soon as I do the filing on the seats and the cockpit, I can start with the instrument panel. However, I have a dilemma.

Which one of you clever so-and-sos can tell me where these go?

Marked 27 on the sprue, there are a twin set of joysticks (I think)?

The instructions make out that they somehow lie flat next to the seats... But there are no cut-outs or obvious slots for them.

Their counterparts, 28, have holes pre-drilled for them.

Ben.

[crookedmouth]

Helicopter teach in...

"Footrests" = the yaw pedals control the anti-torque rotor

Part 28 = the "Joy stick" also known as the "cyclic" which controls the cyclic pitch of the main rotor and sits between the pilot's legs

Part 27 = collective throttle & pitch (AKA "collective"). These sit to the left of the seat and are positioned like a car's handbrake. They are used to control the collective pitch of the main rotor and also have the throttle twist grip

Alternatively, read Chickenhawk by Robert Mason - it's a fantastic book and you'll learn a lot about helicopters.

Edited April 19, 2010 by crookedmouth

[L4byr1nth]

I think I have that book somewhere! I'll give it a read. I'm on Mark Baker's 'Nam' at the moment.

It was going so well, until I started to apply the photo-etch. The fit of the cockpit parts, in general, was horrible. The instructions are poor, not very detailed, and seem like an afterthought.

You'd think AFV, in their all-knowing greatness, would have deigned to include in the instructions an 'after' shot of the cockpit - to show you what it should look like? Even my old Airfix models had this!

With no pictures on the box of the cockpit, and no hints in the manual, this is my best impression of what an AH-64D cockpit looks like.

I couldn't work out the fit of the control panel for the front seat. The 'hood' fit very poorly, and there is no positive method of attachment for it - it sort of balances on the sides of the 'pit? As evidenced here;

Plus, there's a thing that sticks out from the front control panel. Not sure what it is, but the instructions reckoned I had to put the cyclic (thanks crookedmouth!) inside it... Hmmmm... Didn't bother. Can always change what's wrong when some smart-alec points it out, which I'm sure they will!

Even though there is a whole seperate section in the instructions for applying the photo-etch, nowhere was it mentioned that if you position them properly (I.E. where it tells you to, and where the original panel sections were), other parts won't fit on, because the photoetch is ever-so-slightly bigger than it should be.

It was a shame, because fitting the rotor section and the yaw pedals was a nice experience - both went together fine, and only needed a dab of glue.

So how do you think I can fix this?

I can live with everything apart from that front control panel section. It's really annoying me because it was hard to put together, and it doesn't look any good. The fit is awful on the 'hood' sections.

Everything else (including the copious glue spills) will be covered up by some careful filing and painting.

Ben.

Edited April 19, 2010 by L4byr1nth

[crookedmouth]

I'm no Apache expert, but the best thing I think you can do is stop building and spend some time googling Apache cockpit pictures and so on. It looks to me like the instructions aren't helping much and It'd be a shame to spoil the kit and your first modelling experience by turning out a dog. That front cockpit console doesn't look right to me.

Chickenhawk won't help the build, but it's a great intro to helos and a reet rivettin' read...

[L4byr1nth]

Yay, success!

Got a really good picture up on Google, and corrected the front console.

Still not sure about the front cyclic placement - the picture didn't show anything like the piece in the kit.

I can now see how inaccurate the photo-etch is - kind of a waste of effort

Cleaned up all the glue overspill, and hopefully paint will hide the poor fit of the front hood. Kind of wish I hadn't bothered with the photo-etch, but it's nothing major.

The above pictures don't really do it justice, those are just the worst parts. It'll look better with paint (if I'm lucky ).

I guess it's what you get for not working to a good set of reference pictures? Forgot how important those are!

Tomorrow I'll work on the main fuselage and associated sub-assemblies.

Ben.

[crookedmouth]

Don't give up on the PE. If the PE adds detail that gives the impression of accuracy then it's done at least part of the job. Look at the seats for instance. Do they look better with the harnesses or without? I reckon better, even if the real harnesses look nothing like that.

The "true-to-life-exactly-the-right-number-of-knobs-and-dials-on-the dashboard" sort of accuracy you can leave up to the rivet counters who, let's face it, will always find some glaring omission or item of spurious detail, no matter how hard you try.

Are the instructions really that bad? Google more pictures as you go and take your time. It's not a race and paintwork will hide a multitude of sins, but not all of them.

Most importantly, ignore what anyone tells you (me included) and enjoy it! It's a hobby, not a pennace.

[L4byr1nth]

I guess you're right about the PE. Looking at it now, at least it's all on straight, with virtually no gaps or bends - pretty good for my first time ever seeing it.

The instructions are pretty poor, yes. No image of the completed cockpit anywhere, and the small sub-assemblies aren't printed large enough to make sense - although I've seen that a few times before in Revell kits.

Also, it gets some of the part numbers and paint colours mixed up - at one point it tells you to paint a piece from the clears sprue flat black!

Plus, as I said, this build is just a warm-up to that Hasegawa kit

Ben.

[crookedmouth]

Also, it gets some of the part numbers and paint colours mixed up - at one point it tells you to paint a piece from the clears sprue flat black!

Not entirely unusual and not necessarily wrong. What part?

[L4byr1nth]

D6 - the clear shield between the two cockpit sections. Not sure if it's the pilot's HUD or what?

The riveted rim is meant to be OD Green, but it says to spray the whole thing Flat Black.

Found a great set of pictures of the Revell 1/32 AH-64, showing that the gunners cyclic does indeed fit inside that thing on the front panel.

Ben.

[crookedmouth]

D6 - the clear shield between the two cockpit sections. Not sure if it's the pilot's HUD or what?

The riveted rim is meant to be OD Green, but it says to spray the whole thing Flat Black.

Nope - sounds like rubbish to me

[L4byr1nth]

Ok, so now the cockpit is assembled and tidied up, I guess I'd better read Step 2.

Looking at the instructions, this should be much easier than detailing the cockpit.

That looks easy enough. Close the fuselage up, ensuring to secure the cockpit properly between the two halves.

There are also a couple of optional steps - you can either use the Academy-provided landing gear, or assemble the AFV Club ones, complete with the squishy PVC tyres!

You also need to remember to complete the tail rotor assembley - this, like the main rotor, has a small plastic washer or bearing piece that anchors the rotor in place. This bit needs to go on the inside of the fuselage, thus remember to do it before closing the body up.

The dry fit seems ok - not great, but nothing major to worry about. Not sure whether to bother with the optional landing gear, but I guess it would be pointless not to now...

Ben.

[crookedmouth]

You'll have noticed that the tail rotor blades don't sit at right angles?

[Mark M]

if your struggliing for pics of what she looks like search the forum for either Ozh, Honza or my build threads, there are build photos but also 'real' photos of the british aircraft

[L4byr1nth]

Thanks for that Mark, I'll have a look for yours now.

Just sprayed the cockpit with Tamiya grey acrylic primer, after doing a little bit of shading here and there.

It looks ok. Nothing special, but ok.

I'm using the instructions from my Hasegawa AH-64D now, as they're a lot better in my opinion.

Ben.

EDIT:: Also, does anyone know if user 'Nev' still checks the forums?

I saw the colour scheme on his awesome Hasegawa AH-64D here;

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...20&hl=JGSDF

But I'm having trouble matching the paints. I have the Tamiya Acrylics XF72 - XF74, but I can't decide which green is the one used for the camo scheme - JGSDF Olive Drab, or JGSDF Dark Green?

Edited April 24, 2010 by L4byr1nth