Douglas Boston III

[Pielstick]

Ok here's another question from me about the interior colour of WW2 US aircraft in British service...

I hope to be shortly getting started on the Italeri A-20 Havoc. I'm going to be finishing it as a Boston III. As I understand it, the Boston III was the first version of the Havoc to be custom built for the RAF... so would the interior colour be British Interior Green or US Interior Green?

Thanks,

Nick

[Pielstick]

Looks like I've answered my own question. A Google search turned this up:

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/a/551/9/1/23

This Italeri kit has decal options for one US, one French, and two RAF machines. This is the exact same aircraft that I will build. It says the aircraft was diverted to the RAF from USAAF stocks, so I suppose the interior would have been US Interior Green!

[Tango India Mike]

Nick, ALL of the colour photographs I've seen on the internet, including some very high quality Kodachrome of Bostons on the production line, show a colour pretty much identical to Olive Drab. Sorry I don't know how to do links, but someone else may come along and be able to point you in the right direction. I can't remember for sure, but I think there may be some good ones in the LIFE collection that was getting a good run on Hyperscale a few months back.

Cheers,

Tim.

[Tango India Mike]

Actually Nick, I've got a series of Kodachromes bookmarked under TuttoRolleiForum - 60 anni fa: Kodachrome 4x5, posted by someone called Pierantonio. The first photo shows a Boston painted in British colours. If you can find your way to it, check out the colour of the open access hatch in the nose.

As I say, there are other good quality colour photos on the internet, so hopefully someone can tell you how to get to them.

[Steven Eisenman]

Another reason not to trust those profiles. According to my references, A-20C (Boston IIIA), Serial (4)119406 was sent on to the Soviet Union. Looks like an Errormaster profile.

Also, I do not recall a desert scheme with the USAAF serial on the fin.

All A-20C Boston IIIA aircraft were L/L. Interior would be Interior Green.

[Tango India Mike]

Would that be the lurid lime green so often seen on models of American aircraft, or another that could look like olive drab in colour photographs of Douglas Bostons? I have A20C kits to build myself, so it would be nice to know for sure.

[Steven Eisenman]

Would that be the lurid lime green so often seen on models of American aircraft, or another that could look like olive drab in colour photographs of Douglas Bostons? I have A20C kits to build myself, so it would be nice to know for sure.

Good question. I don't recall seeing a color picture of an actual A-20 interior. I have some B&W of original 'pits and some color of restored. If we "assume" IG, then it is based on a mix of black and ZC. The resulting green color could vary. I often make an interior green by adding some dark gray (or black, but less) to Tamiya Yellow Green.

Eyeballing the B&W pix, I'd say it was more a darker than a bright apple green, when compared to the other elements in the pic.

[Don McIntyre]

There are color photos out there. I remember seeing on the cover of Wings or Airpower magazine a color photo showing the open pilot's hatch and it was clearly interior green. IMHO it was too light to be Dull Dark Green or Bronze Green and too dark to be Green Zinc Chromate. JMHO, mind you.

[Tango India Mike]

Anybody had a look at that forum I suggested a few posts back? I also have in front of me now the October 1996 issue of Scale Aircraft Modelling, with a colour photograph on the cover of a SAAF Boston III. The colour on the inside of the open cockpit hatch is a dull olive green, not at all like the lime (or apple) green associated with 'Interior Green'.

[Steven Eisenman]

Olive Green was used an interior color, but not well documented. The pissue is not to think of tinted ZC / IG as a single or small range of color. Depending on the amount of black that is added to ZC, you will reach OD. This mix was used in the SWP for painting some aircraft..

This is a color picture of an A-20 assembly and note that the color applied as a primer (to reduce corrosion in metal to metal contact) to some framing. It would be tinted ZC.

[Tango India Mike]

Thanks Steven, I've pretty much decided on that colour for my own models (when I get to them), but wanted to be reasonably sure that the brighter green wasn't also a possibility... and perhaps it is, on later production A20G aircraft, for instance. Also, I wouldn't like to think that Nick was getting the wrong impression and settling for the brighter green, while evidence seems to point to the olive shade as being more likely.

Cheers,

Tim.

[dogsbody]

Is this helpful. From Warbirds Illustrated No.16: American Warplanes Volume II, by Jeff Ethell.

 

 

Chris

Edited August 18, 2017 by dogsbody
Photobucket can suck it!

[Tango India Mike]

It sure is, DB! Another one I haven't ever seen before. Amazing how these great colour photographs keep on turning up, although I suppose this was published some years ago. Interior colours aside, that inner wing leading edge is interesting...and what colour is that wheel hub, do you think? Neutral Grey...and if so, why would that be, I wonder?

Hats off in remembrance of Mr Ethell, by the way...and thanks for showing us this.

Cheers,

Tim.

[Steven Eisenman]

It is a DB-7 (not A-20/Boston IIIA), but without knowing the serial it is difficult to identify the origins of the aircraft. It might have been part of the French order. The wheel hub could be just dull metal (French Light Blue-Gray?).

If the serial is AW, then the picture was probably taken in the UK, as serial were allocated on arrival.

Paint looks a bit weathered with what appears to be ZC (yellow) showing at the wing root. The French DB-7s were primed overall in a ZC primer. Not sure about the British DBs.

[dogsbody]

On close examination of the photo inthe book, using a magnifying glass, the serial number is: AH435.

According to Warpaint No.32, this makes it a Boston Mk.II and was later converted to a Havoc Mk.II ( Turbinite ).

[airjiml2]

Take a look at Nick's blog. The hatch looks interior green (of some sort) to me.

Boston

Jim

[Mike H]

I was recently given a couple of copies of an American magazine called Air Classics. They contain a lot of kodachrome photos and did a feature on the Boston showing both AAF & R.A.F Bostons awaiting delivery.

I have given the relevant copy away to a mate at work but could soon retrieve it & send it to you. Pretty sure that the inside's of the Bostons are green.

Mike

[Steven Eisenman]

On close examination of the photo inthe book, using a magnifying glass, the serial number is: AH435.

According to Warpaint No.32, this makes it a Boston Mk.II and was later converted to a Havoc Mk.II ( Turbinite ).

Butler and Hagedorn (Air Arsenal North America) list it as a DB-7A

Meekoms (BAC and Lend Lease) doesn't seem to list it at all.

[Nick Millman]

AH435 was a Boston II (DB-7) delivered between July and August 1941. It was subsequently a Turbinlite conversion and served with 1422 Flt, 1451 Flt and 13 OTU, soc 22.7.44

[Pielstick]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

According to my references, A-20C (Boston IIIA), Serial (4)119406 was sent on to the Soviet Union. Looks like an Errormaster profile.

That's interesting. The options in the kit include two RAF machines - one in the dark green/dark earth/sky colour scheme, and one in the middle stone/dark earth/azure blue scheme. I fancied doing the desert one as it looks quite nice.

Is this helpful. From Warbirds Illustrated No.16: American Warplanes Volume II, by Jeff Ethell.

That's spot on! I used WEM Colour Coats US Interior Green and it looks pretty close to that (for me at least!).

[Tango India Mike]

Hmmm...Well, if 'US Interior Green' does indeed have this olive appearance, then what is the vivid apple green (not the yellowish zinc chromate) that so many modellers favour for US aircraft interiors?

I'm not trying to stir up trouble here, but I just can't figure this one out. I've bought and used (Model Master, I think) 'US Interior Green' and it was certainly a very bright green, not at all like what we're seeing in these pictures. It's the same, or very similar, bright green I see many other modellers also using. So is it wrong, or are there widely differing shades of 'US Interior Green'?

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Assuming that Havoc II is a ex French machine - which it certainly must be, it solves my DB-7 interior colour quandry for my conversion to an early French Douglas.

Cheers

Jonners

[Don McIntyre]

Interior Green could be variable, but there was indeed a standard. The Modelmaster Interior Green (labelled as FS 34151) is to my eye pretty close. They've also got a VERY bright Zinc Chromate Green.

[Tango India Mike]

Okay...but the Modelmaster Interior Green is NOT the same as the olive green that we're consistently seeing in colour photographs, from various sources, of Douglas Bostons. My point is that if Nick chooses to use it on his Boston model, it will not be correct because it's, well, TOO green...if that makes any sense. And no, I'm not confusing it with zinc chromate green (or yellow).

Whatever Nick chooses to use is, of course, his business...but my Bostons will have olive coloured interiors according to what the various colour photographs are showing me, because they sure as death and taxes don't look like the apple green Modelmaster version. I've just been and checked mine, and it IS Modelmaster.

I wish I could have photographed this in natural daylight, but it's night time here at present. Modelmaster US Interior Green.

The only photograph I do have taken in natural daylight is this one. I painted this Vampire's fins and wingtips with Modelmaster US Interior Green, exactly as it comes and with no mixing. The photograph is a pretty good reproduction of the colour.

Sorry chaps, but it doesn't look to me to be the same as the interiors of all these Bostons.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Tango India Mike

[Steven Eisenman]

T.I.M.;

I'm in full agreement that MM IG is far too bright a green compared to what we see in the Douglas aircraft.

Two operable issues: Douglas did use an OD for an interior painting (not unheard of), or they mixed a dark shade of IG.

If you have access to Tamiya Paint, play around with the Yellow-Green and add some black or dark gray.