AMC1965 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Hi all, Apologies but another question. Getting some great responses on here. I am going to be building the Border crusader Mk.III and for ease of build am going to build it as per one of their versions - 9th Queens Lancers at Alamein. My question relates to the arm of service decals provided. My understanding is that the markings of the senior regiment in a Brigade were coloured red, the second regiment yellow and the junior blue. As far as I am aware the 9th were second to the Bays and as such their markings should be blue but the Border kit has a red triangle. Are they wrong or were the colours fluid within Brigades? Many thanks Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 I think you mean the geometric Squadron tactical symbols. Arm Of Service markings are the coloured squares with numbers front and rear. Regiments within Brigades and Brigades within Divisions and even vehicles were frequently reshuffled in N Africa. But it seems that 9QRL were always 2nd senior in 2nd Armd Bde, in 7th Armd Div at Alamein. So your colour scheme is correct and they should have used yellow tac signs. But, if I might quote from Hodges & Taylor "Officially they should have conformed to a colour scheme of ......... but these instructions were frequently disregarded. Some COs used the colours to distinguish the Squadrons within each Regiment". Apparently 5 RTR once used purple! The Good Book also says "Altogether the system - if it can be so called - was so full of variables as to make it very nearly impossible to follow its complicated path. However, it should be realised that these particular signs were of interest only to the members of the Regiment itself and provided its individuals knew their own scheme, how they elected to bend the rules was of little consequence". Which I think leaves you with a 50:50 right or wrong. Red is wrong according to the scheme but that may not have been adherered-to. They were clearly using yellow on their Shermans later. But finding Crusader photos that can be positively ID'd as 9QRL where you can see the tac sign seems impossible. Red would be more visible in monochrome. But I wonder if yellow was changed as it didn't stand out enough against Light Stone? Although black counter-shading was used to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMC1965 Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 Hi Kingsman, many thanks again. Yes, sorry, I meant the squadron symbols. So either go the easy route and use the given decals or do my own. The yellow would blend in with the light stone and much of the turret is light stone (particularly where the symbols go) so perhaps I will take the easy route. Thank you for that, I thought there may have been some individualism amongst the regiments but wasn't sure. Think I will try and find the "good book" for myself All the best, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Hodges & Taylor is hard to find. I have seen them advertised for as much as £1,350!!! WTF? I think I paid about £60 for mine. As an alternative, the 4-volume Warpaint series by Dick Taylor. These went OOP but were reprinted. Unsure of current availability. Try Tank Museum shop or Bookworld. You need all 4 to cover the whole story, but that includes colours and serials as well as markings. Although the markings section is less comprehensive than H&T. They are also full colour whereas H&T only has a couple of colour illustrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMC1965 Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 Ah many thanks, got a ticket for the museum as a birthday present so will see if they have them. Otherwise the Internet is my friend. Thanks again, much appreciated and as always, a pleasure 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayprit Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 11 hours ago, Kingsman said: Hodges & Taylor is hard to find. I have seen them advertised for as much as £1,350!!! WTF? I think I paid about £60 for mine. As an alternative, the 4-volume Warpaint series by Dick Taylor. These went OOP but were reprinted. Unsure of current availability. Try Tank Museum shop or Bookworld. You need all 4 to cover the whole story, but that includes colours and serials as well as markings. Although the markings section is less comprehensive than H&T. They are also full colour whereas H&T only has a couple of colour illustrations. Volume 3 is the one your after......chapter 3 Formation signs...........I find it ideal for formation signs(and variations).........World war 2 is covered, but I use it for British army formation signs after 1953 as we still had them then in far and Middle east Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMC1965 Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 Many thanks Ray, managed to find vol 2 on line for £16. The bumf says vol 2 covers 39 to 45 and vol 3 is post war? Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Volume 2 starts with 50 or so pages on postwar vehicles, but much of the book is taken up with the AOS and unit insignia including much of WW2. All four books are organised by subject areas rather than chronologically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMC1965 Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 That's great, many thanks for that. Should get it some time next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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