Churchill colours - Kingforce, 'Cyclops', AVRE Bridgelayer

[Troy Smith]

And more questions...  these are certainly @Mike Starmer  type questions,  but perhaps of some wider interest. 

I recently got an Esci Churchill III and Matchbox AVRE bridge layer.

 

The Esci Churchill contains marking for two, 'Bert', a Canadian tank lost at Dieppe, and 'Cyclops' Churchill Mk.III ,  51st Royal Tank Regiment, Tunisia, Feb 1943

Which I have seen profiles of,  but not photos, but I assume is something like this?

 

 

I also found the Kingforce Churchills are very simply marked Mk.III's, 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/churchill-mk-iii-kingforce-t279484.html

 

 

 

http://www.mafva.net/other pages/starmer camo.htm

Quote

1942.  Over Light Stone 61 the single colour disruptive was still in force although many units did not employ it whilst others used a variety of schemes, designs and colours, some with black and/or white outlining.

October 1942.  Another policy change issued this month.  G.O.1650 cancels all previous patterns and colours and introduces standardised drawings for certain type and classes of AFV and vehicles as decreed by the Camouflage Directorate of GHQ ME (G(cam)).  Colours to be used are :- Basic shade – Desert Pink Z.I. with a disruptive pattern in Dark (Olive) Green PFI.  Black ( S.C.C. 14), Very Dark Brown ( S.C.C. 1A) or Dark Slate BS. 34 are alternatives.  These designs are common on Shermans , Grants, Valentines, Crusaders, Stuarts and the Churchills of Kingforce (which were most probably Light Stone No.61 over Khaki Green No. 3 or S.C.C. 2 in the Crusader design).  As Desert Pink was a new colour, Light Stone No.61 continued in use on vehicles with or without disruptive paintwork.  Desert pink occurs on its own as a single shade on vehicles of no tactical value and ACVs.  Some ACVs disguised as 10 ton trucks by application of specifically shaped black areas to resemble shadows and structure joins.

does this mean the Churchills were either Khaki Green No.3 OR S.C.C.2 Brown, or were the Crusaders S.C.C.2 with Light Stone No.61

 

On the subject of Khaki Green No.3, this page has Vallejo mixes

https://alliedarmour1940.wordpress.com/2016/10/01/vallejo-paint-mixes/

but there is a query as to which mix is correct?

Quote

Khaki Green G3
2 pts 70921 English Uniform [141] + 1 pt 70888 Khaki [115] + 1 pt 70822 German Camo Black Brown [150] (Mike Starmer, 2016)

A correction if I may:-
2 pts 70921 English Uniform [141] +

1 pt 70888 Olive Grey [092]

+ 1 pt 70822 German Camo Black Brown [150]

 

looking at the unmixed paints, and the description,  I suspect the 2nd mix with Olive Grey is more likely?

 

Finally,  Churchill AVRE Bridgelayer.

I presume depends on when converted, either S.C.C. 2 Brown, or S.C.C. 15,   or are the bridgelayers late enough to have all been S.C.C. 15? 

 

these are the options in the kit, was thinking of option 2,  6th Assault regiment

 

[Mike Starmer]

For Dieppe SCC.2 brown overall same for the Tunisian tank.  Since I wrote that about the KIngforce Churchills, more information a has come to light.  These 6 tanks were all re-worked in UK and prepainted Light Stone 61 before dispatched to Egypt.  Look at the light colour inside the suspension and springs which indicates spaying before fitting track rather than a fast brush over by troops later.  The pattern on all of these tanks is similar and based on that for the Crusader being of basically similar layout, i.e. turret on hull, no side surfaces above tracks.  The dark colour as anecdotal reports is a dark red-brown, not as artwork of green or black.  

 

The bridgelayers were all converted in 1943 so all SCC.2 brown.  At D-day they were probably all that colour,later conversions and major repairs would be SCC.15 Olive Drab. 

[Troy Smith]

On 20/04/2019 at 16:15, Mike Starmer said:

The bridgelayers were all converted in 1943 so all SCC.2 brown.  At D-day they were probably all that colour,later conversions and major repairs would be SCC.15 Olive Drab. 

 

Mike  kindly emailed me, saying the D-Day bridges appeared to be white, the kit option I was interested in is 6th Assault Regiment,  'Bulldog', Germany April 1945

 

I wondered if it was possible to have an SCC2 Brown tank with an SCC15 bridge,   which got me looking for images

 

this is said to be Germany feb 1945

 

 

 

 

Bridge look to be all one colour?

 

TIA 

T