Roger Holden

Ok; at least you 'fessed up . That TMA book has acquired mythical status and is still 'forthcoming' on the Artipresse website.... FWIW, both TMA's (Air Magazine) and AE's colour profiles typically contain loads of errors, so I wouldn't give much credibility to either. The MdlA Breguet XIX GR 'Nungesser-Coli' is still wearing its original paint and it's khaki. The Polish and Belgian Breguets were also khaki according to their own books. On the other hand, some French planes were definitely green. In an old 'Fana' issue, there's a photo of a Nieuport-Delage wood model built at the time by a ground crew member and supposedly painted with the real paint and it's dark green. So I think both colours were in use, possibly by different manufacturers. Letov S-16 were probably khaki over silver (standard Czech). IMO Turkish Br XIX is most likely original khaki (?) with undersides over painted silver.

When did the TMA book come out ? I had this book on order for about 10 years, but finally gave up on it. When TMA's publishing was transferred to Artipresse, it still hadn't come out. When I asked the publisher Jose Fernandez about it at Telford about 3 years ago, he just shrugged his shoulders.....

Some very nice details. Personally, I would also like to see more refined trailing edges (assuming they are not a moulding-technology limitation...).

Very good. Nice to see an intelligent approach to the window areas....

Agreed; it amuses me the endless teeth-gnashing that takes place on the subject of certain WW2 colour schemes. It's as if people talk the topic to death, they think they can miraculously arrive at the correct conclusion. But the fact is most of the information is out there, but buried in some dusty archive out of the reach of modellers. Regarding the Breguet, I wouldn't even be certain that the lower surface was pale blue. It may be silver, which was definitely used on U.S. aircraft built for the Turks in the late 30s.

The surviving unrestored aircraft in the French museum is in the 'standard' overall khaki. Most exported French military aircraft of the 20s retained the standard French finish. So my best guess is that it's French khaki, with the undersurfaces overpainted the light colour. But it may have been completely refinished to the prevailing Turkish standards (whatever they were), or painted in the French factory to the Turkish requirements before delivery. Without precise documentation, it's only ever going to be a guess.

The appropriate people have responded on the FB page. There's a G-1 foundation in Holland trying to construct a full size 3d CAD model with the intention of building a flying replica, who surely have that information. Hope Mikro Mir will also consider one in 1/72. Old MPM kit is very inaccurate (fuselage wrong cross-section, tail booms wrong length).

Thanks for the explanation. Never noticed it before, but haven't really studied them that closely thus far. Seems rather flimsy, but clearly worked on a light aircraft. That complicates making accurate small scale models as so little overlapping area between wing and fuse to put in the mounting provisions. Am studying the Eagle drawing in conjunction with photos and will send you my observations in due course. Roger

Albatross and Ambassador were both designed by the same man, the great Arthur Hagg. A true hero of British aircraft design.

Great pics; thanks John. The undersides of aircraft are always the most difficult to find decent photos of. But what's going on with the root ribs of the lower wings ? I'm not sure how the loads are transferred from the rear spars to the fuselage, as they seem to be below it (??) I would have thought the inboard ends of the wings would be washed upwards to neatly meet the lower longerons, but they aren't.

Airfix kit is the only one which captures the very distinctive 'coffin' shaped cross-section of the rear fuselage; most others have oval rear fuselage (plans also), including MPM. But MPM possibly correctable with filing. Wheels on RAFM plane are not original and too small (faithfully copied by Airfix). Barracuda Studios makes correct sized replacements. Airfix seems slightly better overall, but MPM not bad.

I'll have to find a new photo-host first. All my model photos are on Photobucket..... Regarding silver, many registrations were also silver, not the white in which they are commonly depicted, especially on contemporary restorations. In old painting/finishing manuals, white was a non-preferred colour as it had the heaviest pigment and the poorest covering qualities. It's often very difficult to distinguish white lettering from silver in old photos. It was all but forbidden to paint fabric flying surfaces white. I certainly have some of those early Tigers in my future, along with all flavours of DH60. I'd like to know when the familiar interior green colour came into general use, but I doubt it was before 1935. I know well the 'Silvry' Moths. They were owned by David Kittel, who was the first secretary of the British Light Aeroplane Owners Club. HAC 'stripe' was 2-tone blue (mentioned in a 1926 Flight). Their membership card also used those colours. Roger

Hello John. Glad to be here; I've been considering it for a while. I see you are giving some demonstrations in Hall 3 at Telford, so I assume you are there all weekend ? I'm going on Sunday for a change. After sitting in a tailback for an hour to get in the car park (at 7.45 am) on Saturday last year, I didn't fancy repeating the experience (or worse). So I'm hoping Sunday will be better. I think the event is becoming a victim of its own success. Civil aircraft colours are often a problem, but many times you can get there. Contemporary newspaper or magazine reports and manufacturers' brochures are often useful. In the case of my favoured American types, sometimes the factory records or paperwork still exists. I think 90% of British and American civil aircraft were painted using a limited range of quite common colours. The other 10% were custom paint jobs for wealthy or corporate purchasers. i know that Stroud article. He was a reliable witness.

Very interesting. I think I see 2 different colours on the aft portion of the rudder; maybe red vertical band and dark blue aft ie like the Royal aircraft. Finch Hatton's Wikipedia page says he played host to the Prince of Wales in 1928 and 1930 and perhaps had those colours marked on the aircraft. It also says he was an alumnus of Brasenose College,Oxford, whose colours are yellow and black....

In addition to the fabric problem already pointed out, the cowl has an exaggerated taper, even for the R-2 (which was reduced at the front because of the smaller Wasp Jr it was fitted with for endurance racing). The canopy is also either too long (or too shallow) and the fillets between the lower surface of the wing and the landing gear are missing. Most photos of the R-2 show it with a Smith propeller fitted, not the quasi-Hamilton-Standard shown. These planes are extremely well documented, with good drawings produced by Harry Robinson and Bill Hannan, in addition to the very good Benjamin/Wolf reproduction of the R-2 and even more accurate R-1 repro in the New England Air Museum.