JBOHMSS

Well I am pleased you know the sun rises in the east -I'd hate for you to think otherwise. As for taking me to task I have no cares - but this is a public forum - one where we are all allowed to make comment and have opinions. Getting personal is up to the individual - I have teflon shoulders that are very broad. As for talking to stockists I will not mention names but certainly my local Hobby Craft - Smiths/Modelzone (alas I do not have a local model shop anymore) have piles of Defiants and other Airfix kits that are not selling (yes I spoke to the buyers), before LSA finished he had no faith in the Defiant....I do not have to prove myself. If all the Britmodeller contributors like the 1/72 BP Defiant from Airfix... that still does not make for great sales world wide. However from my point of view I am not a fan of the kit and I am allowed to talk about it. Getting back to the Mosquito - Airfix did say ( a couple of their guys at Telford) that a glass nosed Mossie was on the cards - just when? For me the HK kit will be on the want list but I will wait for Lucky Hobby I think.

I think the glass fronted versions of the Mossie are the best so I will probably stick with HK - unless Airfix get their glass nosed version 1/24 released.

Great news then that Tamiya are releasing a 1/32 Mossie. Superb news in fact if they will be following their previous great 1/32 kits. However I imagine the price will be in a similar bracket as the HK - Again I am going on the prices of the Spitfires, Mustang and Corsair. It can't be much difference in the price range...The Corsair was in the £120bracket so the Mossie has got to be up there. Watch this space as they say.

The sun does rise in the East...Not Chuck Norris - but I do kick rear end. And I do keep it polits and I am entitled to my opinion that is based on all that I see and to whom I talk with in the industry. If you don't lik it then don't read my posts.

All the model shops I look at and visit and all the retailers I talk to.

As for the BP Defiant by Airfix - I go by what I see on the shelves of my local stockists - Airfix may sell them but are they sold out of the stockists branches...and believe me I do talk to major model sellers and most were disappointed the Defiant was released...if Hannantas are selling the add ons then well done them...they also sold 170 HK B17's before it was released. Everything is relative.

Horses for courses - exactly...if you wanna dance you have to pay the band - it's up to you how much you pay!

Rvell and HK cannot be compared - I know the later Revell items are decent but to be honest is the new Spitfire anywhere close to the Tamiya Spits? Probably not. Ultimately it is a matter of you pays your money you takes your choice...I am awaiting the release of the HK before I finally make my decision - I have to say if the office isn't worthy of the price tag I will be disappointed - the cockpit is always my favorite part of the model if this is lacking and requiring after market good then HK should address that - but I am speculating. I do have the HK Lanc on order - couldn't not get that and I can't see anyone else doing such a scale Lanc. As for the one piece wings and slide mould fuselage - I think it is a matter of engineering - slide mould tank barrels are wonderful compared to conventional two part barrels. The comment someone made about the price of large maritme models is spot on - and I had this discussion previously on a thread here and was shot down - At Telford two shows ago a new big Japanese ship was on sale - I saw people walking out with these huge boxes all day...I draw the line - I don't do ships but it doesn't stop me from admiring the work involved - but I was aghast at the price tag - but if that floats your boat (sorry couldn't resist) then I will not disrespect your choice. The 1/24 Typhoon is for Airfix a sublime kit - the 1/24 Mossie was great (it has been surpassed by the Tiffie) - I can remember when all the hype was going on and then people were complaining about the price of each - if the new 1/24 Mossie comes up and is more than £120 will it sell? Of course it will - the first one was so popular they couldn't get enough into the country. Same for the Typhoon. OK so you might not get as much plastic in the HK Mossie but you do get a very well engineered kit - that was obvious at Telford and from my point of view the HK Mossie was/is a much better subject than a 1/72 BP Defiant that Airfix released that is hardly selling - I went to my local Hobbycraft today and there were tons of this kit on the shelf and the same story in my local Smiths/Modelzone...HK have delivered the goods - a kit that is meant for a different type of modeller - it's up to you the modeller to buy or not to buy...certainly these kits will sell as did the B17's.

Mick You are on a dead horse flogging here. Too many on this blog want kits cheap and do not like opening their wallets - I'm going to get a bashing here I know. We all like bargains but those of us that saw the test shots at Telford understand why the cost is prohibitive - the engineering of this kit is sublime. But believe me the cost will include import duties, shipping charges and lots more in this country - we will have a few people disputing this point however talk to a couple of importers and all will say that import duties are a factor as are shiping charges. This Mosquito is pricey - if you don't like the UK prices then order it from Hong Kong - chances are it will be cheaper than buying in the UK. But you take your chances on getting charged custom duties. The new Airfix offering - when it comes - will obviously be cheaper than the new HK - Airfix haven't got new toolings and nor have they made the kit as HK have with the model going together like the actual aircraft. Airfix is a good manufacturer - HK is a well engineered great manufacturer. Mick don't bash Airfix either - you have been warned. Tamiya have made some of thye most sublime kits ever - 1/32 series. The Corsair is recognised as possibly being the best kit made. HK are look to be taking on that mantle - we will have to wait and see with the reviews. But the Mossie looks to be a great kit. Hence it's price. But the internet alleviates UK prices - order from Hong Kong - I did with my Tamiya Corsair and I saved £30! Maybe I am setting a cat among the pigeons - in my view you pay for what you get - the old Revelle offering is so out of date - if you want to bring it up to the HK standard then that will involve one of two avenues - a/ a lot of scratch building or b/ buying a ton of after market items (which will probably equate to the HK kit costs) - the Airfix Mossie is a great kit but as we all know it needs refinement - it looks like the HK kit will not need much refinement. In the end you pays your money and you takes your choice.

It is with a wave of nostalgia that we all remember our model shops. ELS Model supplies was my local at the bottom of the high street Sutton Surrey - the shop was in the Eagle Star Building complex which has recently been pulled down - sad really but the demise of the model shop is sad in my eyes. The new development in Sutton will be superb I am sure - new housing, shopping complex and a new Sainsbury's - be nice if they put in a model shop but that is wishful thinking. Sad news also is that Jason at LSA is selling up - we will get news nearer the time I suppose but I hope someone with the same attitude as Jason takes on the shop.

You are most welcome

Concerning my remark about Model Zone and the kits left on the shelves - I back this up by having talked to several mangers of MZ at the time and all criticised Airfix. I am not here to bad mouth Airfix as many seem to think but as I say I think they could be a little bolder. I shall refrain from further on this thread as I know some will be here vieiwng my comments and take them out of context. Suffice to say that I am nostalgic over Airfix like most here but I also look to the future and feel Airfix are still quite a lot in the past - I applaud some of their releases and on the other hand I also deplore some - and as I said much earlier - it is my opinion.

Also I took photo's of what interested me.

I hope this works - one photo here and then click the link below for more. Also some of my items as I haven't sorted out alnbums. http://s141.photobucket.com/user/Jbohmss/media/Telford201471.jpg.html

This illustrates my point - I do feel that Britmodeller is biased and rightly so BRIT Modeller says it all and a lot of Airfix flag waving. Because this is a public forum for stimulating conversation and I am merely expressing my opinions and thoughts and not wanting to attract a lot of shoot me down in flames posts. I personally think there are better subjects that Airfix could have turned their attention to - the Defiant was a failure - it was superceded very quickly. There are plenty here that will buy the new kit and good luck to you - but there are more that will not (of that I am sure but cannot prove it), but a P47 series would be more attractive world wide. I am not asking for a 1/24 kit every year, but I would appreciate more attention to 1/48 - as we have seen in this thread I am in a minority on Britmodeller - I much prefer the bigger scales and I still want a 1/48 Halifax and Vulcan!!! However I feel that Airfix are resting on their laurels by retooling old subjects. I think Airfix should be a little more bold and announce a brand new kit each year - hopefully the Telford announcements are not the end of the new kits for 2015. Lets face it we were all a buzz last year with the Typhoon - and to be honest I couldn't expect a new 1/24 this year - unless it was a glass nosed Mossie - not much of a conversion and they could do what they did with the Harrier/Sea Harrier and add a new front end...ok yes more details would be required but that is essentially all they would need to do. I digress - at Telford the 1/32 Horten had a queue a mile long to buy it - this is not my cup of tea either although I can appreciate the engineering - Zoukei Mourai tapped the right market though and HK announced a 1/32 Mossie that again is beautifully engineered - gobsmacking in my opinion. As for keeping this hobby going - my small research - talking to model shops and sellers the hobby is firmly set in the midle aged range - yep me included - youngsters really are not that interested. This doesn't bode well for the hobby - take a 14 year old that is remotely interested in making a model will not buy a Defiant - probably not even a 1/48 Halifax - maybe a Vulcan - possibly a F35 Lightning or Raptor - but my son and I imagine many offspring from Britmodellers are not that interested in making models - I hope I am wrong - but looking at the buyers around Telford and at other shows it is us old farts who buy to make - a sad statement. And I fear that when our generation has gone the model hobby will slowly die and be left to smaller specialised manufacturers and limited runs. Model Zone is a good indicator that Airfix and Revell are not ahead in the game - Model zone was left with a huge stock that consisted mainly of Airfix kits and Revell kits - take a look at the Model Centre in Croydon that bought up all the old stock - Merlins up to your ears and 1/48 Land Rovers and Jackals...for me this is proof that Airfix didn't do the right research on these particular kits (a small minority in their catalogue) - conversely there is a lot of Hasegawa and Dragon kits from an age ago that have not sold too - but these kits are from a longer history than the Airfix items. However I am just trying to illustrate my point. If I am wrong great - but I feel Airfix is not leading as much as they could - and yes the R&D budget has to be taken into account - we all want a bunch of kits that might or might not be good sellers - I just feel the three kits announced at Telford were something of a cop out. I have my desires and most are 1/48 upwards - I won't bore you more on these but do I want a Defiant et al? No. A Horten? Nope. But maybe I am in the minority. Currently if a 1/48 Vulcan were to appear I think World wide that would be a seller. Currently the Vulcan is doing no wrong on the airshow circuit and America would gag to have it do the circuit in the US - and that is where the main sales of kits is situated - I don't think the Defiant will rock boats across the USA. Anyhow I have sorted out the Telford photo's I have taken and will start a new thread to post them.

If the Vulcan can remain in the skies I'm pretty certain a Lightning can as well - unfortunately even if there were a support group with bottomless pockets the authorities wouldn't allow it to fly - and that is a shame, as for flying over population then just fly over the coastal airshows and fly over water only should anything go wrong, it is a testement of our air industry and how it is ignored that we do not have a Lightning, Harrier or Phantom flying for show purposes. The airshow circuit is sadly lacking these aircraft that were once the forefront of our defenses. As for finances of running such - enough people would partake in air shows to cover running costs. As for the Mosquito - re reading the report it was not necessarily poor maintenance but design fault - Merlin's were known to cut out in negative g - the aircraft had done countless shows and manouvers prior to the tragedy - the carburettors had not been modified since WW2 on this particular plane - there is no blame laid on poor maintenace more an oversight yet the plane had ben flying fine up until a show prior to the crash - the pilot repirted the plane running rough - yet a fault could not be found - the pilot thought the prop was incorrect. I cannot see the BBMF having poor maintenance.

I bow to defeat in defiance! It's great to see so many enthusiasts that want a 1/72 new tooled Defiant. I am surprised. I of course am a nay - A point was made about scale and horses for courses and that is a spot on comment. As for Hannants selling more 1/72 stuff well interesting - I would say it's because most subjects are in 1/72 so cannot be repeated in bigger scales - most people I know prefer 1/48 if they can get it apart from the big stuff - Lancs etc. purely for shelf space. I prefer 1/48 upwards in whatever - and I'll find shelf space. But talking to other model shops it's 1/48 or bigger - it's the birthday and Christmas present buyers who kep buying the 1/72 stuff certainly from Model...sorry Smiths, Hobbyland and Toys R Us.

What you say is relevent and true - however that didn't stop the Lightning from being in service for...how many years? And pointing out the South African tragedy - what about the Mosquito crashing? The cold war jets? and many other show disasters?...yet those aircraft still fly at shows (soon a Mossie on the circuit). We have strict rules - I am pretty sure there are enough enthusiasts out there to get a lightning to the skies and keep it there as there are Vulcan enthusiasts.

Good point 1/72 is the scale that is the best served scale - I think when you saw all the Airfix and Revell kits left on the defunct Model Zone shelves that said it all - not the best sellers even at cut prices - whereas all the Japanese kits were pretty much sold off. As for detail - well I have seen the super detailed 1/72's and I am as gobsmacked as others however I firmly believe that most modellers prefer larger scales.

I have heard rumblings about Hornby/Airfix and their finances - so far as I am aware they are struggling. I won't be surprised if one of the brands is up for sale. As for the home market - the UK cannot be relied upon to keep Airfix afloat - not enough serious modellers to buy the catalogue. While we here on Brit Modeller are by default Brit - but I see plenty who will build a Johnny Foreigner to add to the collection. There are plenty of subjects that we could all gag for and I would say something like 1/24 Me 262 would be very popular (I am musing) - the 1/24 Mosie did well - would an Me 110 do the same? Probably. And those kits are internationally viable. A Defiant, I beleive is not, not in any scale. My Gob was smacked when the 1/48 Whirlwind was released - OK it has flaws and wrongs that need righting but hey - it is an inexpensive kit that more or less looks like a Whirlwind - will it be an international success - to be honest - I don't think so. But I am pleased it was released all the same. For me that was new, innovative, from left field. Not safe. Not a retool but new. I know the Wellington had mixed reviews but I know a fair few of us are pleased that there is a 1/48 Wimpy and I imagine the same would be said if a Halifax arrived in 1/48. I know that if a good 1/32 Beaufighter cropped up we'd most of us be gagging even more in 1/24th! I feel Airfix are just coasting a bit after the Typhoon - a lot of resources went into that kit - I wish they had followed it up with something as good or pleasing this year but I think their finances would have been stretched. Maybe we may have to wait another five years for the next 1/24th - personally I'd love for them to re tool the 1/24th FW190 and sort it out - much more than a retooled Defiant!

Mike you wrote what I was thinking- Hornby have not had a god time since investing in Olympic mascot toys that they were left with and as you say their supplies in the far east. As you say remarkable that they have carried on. From my point of view I'd like to see Airfix carry on but not by releasing rehashed items that really are not of great interest. As for the US types - they don't have to pay licencing - a Jeep becomes 1/4 ton truck etc. Much was made about the P40 Warhawk/kittyhawk some such hawk in 1/72 new tooled - ho hum -hasn't everyone else done one? Now if it were a new P40 in 1/48 early mark and reasonbly accurate then it would have been something to write home about as there isn't a good flying Tiger out there. Thats why the Sea Vixen and Javelin were welcomed. I'd love for all the brit cold war to carry on but would it be commercially viable? Probably not - the international market is where the bottom line ends - a 1/72 Defiant will not get the American's juices flowing. Anyhow we can discuss all we want it's when we see a ton left on the shelves in 12 months time that hindsight will be a wonderful thing.

Want to se that 1/48th Vulcan of plasticard and patience - I'll get the boys with a straight jacket ready. The Lightning wasn't dangerous when it was a frontline defence aircraft in the RAF. A 262 and Fw190 and even a Beaufighter would be welcome but the red tape in this country is too much for those who would undertake such a project. We can't even get the 262 over from the US for the air show circuit - too much red tape. We were so lucky to have the Canadian Lanc this year. Will we have the Mossie at all? I hope so.

Couldn't agree more And I am pleased Airfix have managed to hang in there - many are especially because of the nostalgia that Airfix has but so many times they rely too heavily on their back catalogue. Airfix is loved by many we all grew up on them but so many have spoken on this forum and we all want x,y and z in kit form - how many people wanted a Defiant in 1/72? If 10 say yes I'll be surprised. Innovative is a good word - tough to find a subject that is new and all singing all dancing but it is obvious the 1/24 Mossie was a best seller especially when I saw an unmade one at Telford from the collectors section of traders sell at £180! Wish I had a few in my stash thats 50% profit since it's release - go and get that sort of return from a building society! The Typhoon will be in that vein as well. I saw Sea Vixens at Telford in the collectors sector at £35 - a long way since model zone was selling at £14....my point is that these prior kits have a resale value and are desirable - I don't think the Defiant will be in that vein.

As long as Airfix duplicate their 1/72 into 1/48th life will be fine - however I can't see the Defiant being big internationally and would avoid one in 1/48. As I said I was disappointed with their releases this year. As much as there are enthusiastic modellers on this forum I doubt that many would have punted for a Defiant in any scale. It will be interesting to see sales but I repeat from earlier threads I think Airfix rely too much on their back catalogue. Even if they are renewing the tooling on the lot, many subjects are not relevant now especially in 1/72. I chat a bit with model shops and suppliers and unfortunately Airfix seem very tied in with the toy shop and modelzone mentality - Modelzone (aka WH Smiths) have buyers that know very little about the model industry and take what Airfix supply but independent Model shops will pick and chose and talking to several independents they also are not impressed with Airfix. There does appear to be an old school attitude from Airfix with a few radical surprises but not enough to be great guns I fear.

From my experience women prefer bigger not smaller scale! As for 190 1/72 kits - the small mans syndrome boasting about your stash!!! And 1/48 proper engineering scale - see...thats why 1/72 is poor!!! tongue firmly in cheek mwa ha ha ha Have you seen Tom's 1/32 Halifax? Rumour has it that it doubles up as support structure in his house! Big is definitely best!