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Hannes
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About Hannes
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Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Yes , dear Harvey you can see them on the rear wheels as well . There seems to be putty and color around those on the front wheels . Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Photos 13 and 25 show the real shape of the radiator case ( 13 seen from a similar point of view ) . Photo 3 shows similar " corrections " I want to give you an example : On photo 3 there are 2 odd buttons over the transversal arm of the steering system and above these buttons there seems to be a part of the grille´s frame . But it´s a part of the background ! Below the transversal arm it´s correct ! Some of you might think , that´s not important at all but it is imho ! By the shortening of the foresighting longer parts seem to be short but our brain can imagine it´´s real lenght ! All this reminds me of the old joke : There are 3 different kind of persons on this planet :One kind knows how to calculate and the other one does not . Many greetings ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Of course there are other documents which could correct the wrong impression . But photo 2 is one of the most used photos and some kind of pattern especially now in high resolution . Perception psychology tells us that the impression regarding an object we consider as most significant overlays other impressions by other sources we consider as less important . It´s possible that the photographer altered the impression with the best of intentions because he considered the front as too angular and the grille´s frame sticks out a bit . Many greetings Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Dear Olivier , the photographer removed the background and used a sharp knife for this purpose ..He made a mistake and falsificated the shape of the grille by removing a part of the grille´s frame and leaving a bit of the background above the radiator case . This proceeding alters the characteristics of the radiator case . This is more important than you might believe because our perception gets deceived regarding the real shape of the car´s front . If it´s still not clear , I´ll draw a scetch later on . Many greetings ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
In one of my earlier posts I mentioned that there´s been cut away too much by the photographer . On your second photo we can see the upper part of the grille´s frame . On it´s right side seen from our point of view there´s a falsification by not following the form of the frame . It´s not much in mm but it alters the real shape On top of the radiator case a part of the background can be seen . You can check this out by using a ruler and elongating the hinges of the bonnets ..The impression of an U-shaped grille is wrong as we can see on other documents . Such falsifications should not get underestimated imho ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
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Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
.I have to correct myself : The frontal bar was possibly necessary for avoiding a contact between steering rod and right front tyre ! . Many greetings ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
As far as I know both engines were developed simultaneous . I think it was Massimino who told Rogliatti that at this time it was consensus among the engineers that the two-stroke engine in combination with Roots compressors ( type 451 )is more efficient compared with an 4-stroke engine .In my opinion drawing 1 was considered as version for the 451 engine . But - as we all know - this engine caused too much problems and the 406 engine was developed further instead . Many greetings ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Yes exactly , dear Olivier . We both altered the inclination of the chassis rails , that´s why we were forced to alter the bodywork at the same spots . Most likely the engineers could not simply lower the whole bodywork instead because other parts had to get altered too and it was easier to use spacers instead . The gap gets wider towards the rear imho , Instead of putty this possibly could be welding works . Many greetings ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Another topic that´s interesting for me is about the two oil tanks . Protar represented the big rear oil tank as a high-tech version with a lot of bolts . That´s nonsense imho . Thanks to Harvey we do know now that the frontal oil tank has been much bigger compared with the kit´s version . How did these tanks look like ? In my opinion these tanks were made out of welded sheets similar with the fuel tank . If there were bolts and screws they were most likely placed around the openings but I doubt there were many of them . For the successor the U-shaped tube was shifted from the front to the center of the tank , probably for ergonomical reasons . There´s a case ( about 20/10 /10 cm size ) at the rear end of the big oil tank . I don´t believe this to be a part of the oil tank system . It looks like a simple box for me with a strenghtening sheet below . The question is : What was inside this box ? Tools , spark plugs or a piece of pizza for Bordino ? I don´t know if there were prescriptions at that time if tools had to be aboard .Fred could possibly answer this question . There´s a hanging tube system below the big tank . It hangs lower than the chassis rail and should get represented on the left side of the car imho . This construction was possibly multi-functional : An easy replacement of the old oil by new one , possibly a filter function and a system for cooling down the oil temperature a bit . Many greetings ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Another interesting discovery : It´s about the Roots-blowers .These blowers are not considered as compressors because they don´t compress the air , they just accelerate the air flow and force the engine to higher RPM ´s . But : In 1923 a patent was given to Fiat regarding a blower- system that cools down the temperature of the air before it reaches the combustion chambers . Besides a protection against overheating there has been a compressor effect too ! This patent was stolen by other companies by slightly altering this system . There are two results : We could designate these kinds of Roots-blowers as compressors . It´s intelligible that old Agnelli was not amused . Not only his best engineers were lured away by other companies , his patents were stolen too ! Many greetings Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Thanks , dear Olivier ! But I´m convinced that my theory is more than an assumption , that´s why I was digging deeper . Some months ago Roy published side-view photo 28 . You possibly remember my analysis regarding the separation line between bonnets and bodywork . It´s vertical . Below the exhaust it is slightly slanted . What´s the reason ? It´s as I said : The bodywork was made according drawing 1 . A new , flatter and longer chassis was required for the 4-stroke engine .No new bodywork was built . The old bodywork had to get adapted not only to the new chassis 806 but to the new inclination of the bonnets as well . The bodywork sits directly on the chassis only at it´s frontal beginning . It sits on spacers over the chassis and the gaps were filled with putty as we can see on the new HRD version of photo 2 . I cannot explain why no new bodywork was constructed for the new chassis . Money ? Time pressure ? We will probably never know . But-who knows ? Many greetings ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Dear Nick ,if these plates are not directly mounted to the chassis ( with spacers as you said ) why dont´t we see a gap ? It´s quite confusing ! Another topic : Are you interested in astronomy ? ( solar eclipse ) I am since I was a boy and built my own telescope together with my father , a Cassegrain reflector . Don´t get devoured by the Yellowstone volcano in Wyoming ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
If the kit´s steering wheel gets turned .to the left , the drop link rotates into the rear direction and the rod gets closer to the chassis .. The horizontal rod of the real car is situated on the same vertical height as the rear suspension of the frontal leaf springs . The rear bar was possibly constructed to avoid a contact between the rod and the suspension . If the kit´s steering wheel gets turned to the right ,the drop-link rotates into the frontal direction and the rod ´s distance to the suspension gets greater - no danger of a collision . But the kit´s levers are constructed according drawing 1 and the levers on the right front wheel are different on drawing 2 . Many greetings ! Hannes -
Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds
Hannes replied to Roy vd M.'s topic in Work In Progress - Vehicles
Improved photo 3 is a new source for discoveries as well ! Now we can see some structures inside the cockpit . One interesting detail I found out : The frontal suspension for the crossed struts under the engine ( below the breast-shaped leaf spring suspension ) is slanted regarding it´s upper part but turns into a vertical direction at it´s lower end . Another new perspective after 163 pages full of research ! Many greetings ! Hannes
