RLM 83 color reproduction (it's blue!)

[Graham Boak]

There is no real doubt that such aircraft based in Italy were blue, as they were recorded as such by the RAF intelligence investigations after the capture of Foggia, and by Swiss comments on the example shown above, which landed in Switzerland en-route.  However this is some way from determining just which blue, though I would suggest that as 83 had been developed for just this purpose, it is likelier than the rather vivid (for camouflage purposes) alternative dark blue in Luftwaffe stocks..

 

Now if Ullmann has some additional more specific piece of information that confirms this, perhaps Giampero will pass this on?  (or is this what Paul has added whilst I was typing?  What Paul has added about the Ju.88S-3 does rather back my comment about 25 as being too vivid.)

 

And just what did the Swiss write?  My understanding that it was "Wasser", which is a bit more ambiguous, and I thought that information came from Merrick.  I'm open for correction.

[Paul Lucas]

The notes that I have from Michael Ullmann's research are dated November 2012. The wording quoted here is as given in Mr Ullmann's synopsis.

 

"Test order E2-45/31 Development and verification of camouflage for the Mediterranean Sea

 

Report August 1943

Alongside RLM 73 a "darkblue" colour will be use. Flighttest in the near future.

 

Report September 1943:

Using the camouflage pattern "Land" and "Sea" with RLM 73 and the darkblue colour 300/III suggested for introduction.

 

Report November 1943:

Closed with report dated 10. November 1943. Colour RLM 83 "DARKBLUE" with RLM 72 for Sea- and RLM 70 for landaircraft suggested for introduction."

 

On the basis of this chronology, Dark Blue 83 would not have been available prior to November 1943 unless there was some sort of service trial for which there is currently no evidence. Therefore, in my opinion, Dunkelblau 24 is the most likely colour to have been used in the Mediterranean during 1943 where a dark blue colour of some kind was used. 

 

Unless, of course, somebody knows different and has some evidence to back their claim up.

 

Assuming that 24 was initially used, perhaps it was considered to be too vivid a colour and this is what provided the impetus for the development of 83. 

 

It would be interesting to know when the Luftwaffe first began using a blue colour on the upper surfaces of aircraft operating over the Mediterranean.

[Graham Boak]

October 1943 for the one in Switzerland.

[GiampieroSilvestri]

What I found is exactly what Mr.Lucas has posted and a picture of a kit Mr.Ullmann painted according to the documents he found.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

[Nick B]

Very interesting discussion, but it IMO lacks a starting point, which is just where and when was RLM 83 "blue" ordered to be used. I have read (eg  here https://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/luftwaffe/colors.html ) the RLM 83 had a relatively short life and was not used in the late war 81/82 schemes. My impression has been, although uncertain, that RLM 83 could/was substituted for 81 or82 in late war schemes. It seems this wasn't the case ?

 

Is the conclusion that RLM 83 was a maritime colour used in the med (I have also come across a suggestion of a Blue 83 used in Norway in 44/45 for anti-shipping aircraft somewhere) and thats's it.

 

Personally, I'm feel happy that the standard late war 76/81/82 schemes varied in colour due to paint batch composition or application (probably with the thing agent) differences combined with weathering.

 

Thanks

 

Nick