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Posts posted by Pete57

  1. 22 hours ago, 72modeler said:



    See if this helps a little. My favorite version, too! I have the Hasegawa "beast mode" kit, and I can't wait to hang all that nasty stuff under it- looks really mean, but VERY unstealthy!




    Hi 72modeller


    it helps and I have already downloaded the full MIL-STD-2161 in pdf.


    What I was referring to is just the color of the upper part of ALL the landing gear struts (I've since found out it applies to all the three members, not just the MLG).


    Check out the following links (F-35B)


    Wiki MLG


    Wiki NLG


    ...and compare the color of the same details in the F-35A...




    ...and F-35C






  2. I've been Google-image searching pic's of various details of the F-35B, in order to accurately build Italeri's 1/72 scale kit.


    I've noticed that, unlike the F-35A and F-35C, the F-35B's top portion of the main landing gear struts is painted what appears to be a medium/dark (metallic?) grey, instead of the customary gloss white.


    Can someone cast some light, i.e. FS color?





  3. 5 hours ago, John R said:

    I think that you will find that the X-3 pre-dates that publication by several years.

    BTW. I did realise that you had not yet got the kit. I meant when you received it.

    Mike - Having started the Maintrack version and consigned it to the shelf of doom I would not class it as 'excellent'.



    Hi John,


    Very true, as a matter of fact, I was referring to the predecessor of the MIL-C-8779 COLOR, whose very first edition's date was  May 22, 1963, i.e. over a decade after the X-3's construction began.


    Also, I don't rule out the possibility Douglas used its own proprietary paint or one of its suppliers' proprietary paint.


    The Northrop X-4, likewise show non-standard cockpit interior colors, while Bell seems to have stuck to the Medium Green (42 first, and ANA 612, later) they used in their wartime P-39's,  P-63's and P-59's.




  4. Thanks Corsairfoxfouruncle, different pics from the ones I'd saved, but still mighty useful ones.


    It looks like, with the exception of the Bell Aircraft Co., all the other manufacturer's of X-planes possibly followed non Military Specification's.


    Sticking to Douglas. the D-558 Skystreak shows, in the color-picture's on the web, a very dark grey or black color, in line with the specs of the time, both on the canopy frame's inside and the seat bulkhead..

    The D-558-2, on the other hand, shows also some bluish-grey, not unlike the X-3's, inside the front part of the canopy interior. 


    Perhaps, a copy of the predecessor of the MIL-C-8779 COLOR, INTERIOR, AIRCRAFT, REQUIREMENTS FOR, this, first published on May 22, 1963, would provide an answer, had the Douglas Aircraft Company indeed followed other, non-standard, but approved schemes contained in said publication.


    Now, if someone had access to the preserved X-3, taking with him/her with a copy of the FS595... 





    • Thanks 1
  5. @John R. Like I said in my post, I don't have the kit yet, so unfortunately, I cannot give you an opinion.


    @bentwaters81tfw You're absolutely correct, I saw the whole process in a Youtube video today. What I meant is that there are walkaround pics of the cockpit as seen thru the windows, that being tinted, do not display the actual color.


    @ bobmig I had already taken screenshots of the Museum's X-3 from that very website. But it doesn't help so far as the actual color is concerned...

  6. Hi,


    I've got the AZ Models, 1/72 Douglas X-3 model on the way.

    On the walkaround's, the general, cockpit color appears to be some kind of bluish-grey, even when not viewed thru the (blue tinted?) closed canopy, with Dark Gull Grey FS36231 coming to mind.


    However, the fact that FS36231 began to be used around 1953, on aircraft like the NAA F-86 Sabre, gives me some doubts...


    Can someone cast some light?


    TIA and Season's Greetings.

  7. 9 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:



    Might get one to do as late mark mk III


    Working from memory, there was a bit of discrepancy in some published sources about where the F3 production ended and the F4 started (possibly because as other than a small intake in the nacelle they were pretty much identical)

    I had the same idea. However looking at pictures of the G.41E's (long-nacelle MK III's) it appears that also the rear portion of the nacelle was differently shaped, as the Meteor 4's Derwent 5's should have a wider diameter nozzle than the Derwent 1 thru 4's used in the G.41E's.

    • Like 1
  8. Thank y'all for all the useful info.

    I'm going to try my luck on 21LF, including the filling and re-scribing.

    I'm sure gloss white originated as a mil-spec, but it has since been adopted also by the civilian aircraft industry as - I've been told - it shows hydraulic fluid (Skydrol?) stains (i.e. leaks) better than other colors.

    Annti_K seems to confirm the gloss white struts and yellow zinc chromate bays may indeed be a standard practise of the former Gates Learjet Corporation, now Bombardier Aerospace.



  9. Having bought the Amodel kit of the Lear Fan 2100, I decided to do some researching on the interior colors.

    For starters, I saw no point researching the colors of the cockpit/cabin as

    • I couldn't find on the net any specific pic's other than the old company brochure's color drawings, and
    • The windshield and the cabin windows do not provide any significant view of the interior, and
    • The access door is not a separate part, and the work of separating it from the fuselage and scratch building the whole interior, hardly seems to be worth the effort.

    On the other hand, the colors of the landing gear and associated bays, seemed worth some effort.

    My initial thought was the l/g strut, the interior of the bays and of the l/g door has to be gloss white, as is the case in most, modern aircraft. Well, not so...

    The following pics, of N21LF, at the Addison, TX, Air Museum, in fact, seem to provide…a very different picture - no pun intended :winkgrin:



    • Nose l/g: gloss white strut and doors' interior, with a light, greenish-yellow (YZC?) bay
    • Main l/g: gloss white strut, with the topmost part painted a metallic green or blue, sandy brown (not unlike the French interior chamois) door's interior and a black or very dark grey bay (un-primed composites?)

    What's your opinion?



    • Like 1
  10. It probably wouldn't be CIA, as these were USAF overflights done at the behest of Le May. ...

    I agree with you. My point was merely, if intelligence-related information which, by definition, should have a higher classification than its military counterpart, is now available, then information such as the serial numbers of the aircraft involved in these missions should be easier to get...

    Well, looks like it ain't... :angry:

  11. Does anyone know the serial numbers of the two ®B-47B’s involved in the long penetration of the USSR missions in 1952?

    From http://data-freeway.com/plesetsk/overflights.htm

    ‘For this flight, SAC modified two B-47Bs from the 306th Bombardment Wing at MacDill AFB, Florida. Col. Donald E. Hillman, the deputy wing commander, was selected to plan the mission and pilot the primary aircraft. The mission was assigned the highest of security classifications; only the commander of SAC, Gen. Curtis E. LeMay, and his directors of operations and intelligence knew the details. In the field, initially only Maj. Gen. Frank Armstrong, commander of the 6th Air Division at MacDill (and responsible for executing the project) and Hillman knew of it. It should be emphasized that in this instance, as in all others involving overflights, LeMay took his orders from above.

    On September 28, 1952, the two modified B-47Bs, accompanied by two KC-97 tankers, flew from MacDill to Eielson AFB. Hillman remained as command pilot of the primary aircraft, with Majors Lester E. Gunter, copilot, and Edward A. Timmins, navigator. Col. Patrick D. Fleming piloted the backup aircraft, with Majors Lloyd F. Fields, copilot, and William J. Reilly, navigator. With word of good weather over Siberia, General Armstrong authorized takeoff early on October 15, 1952. After meeting the KC-97 tankers in the area of Point Barrow, Alaska, the B-47s took on full loads of fuel and the mission proceeded.

    Fleming and his crew photographed and mapped Wrangel Island, located about a hundred miles from the Siberian mainland, and then flew to the communications area over the Chukchi Sea and took up station, flying a racetrack pattern. Maintaining radio silence, Hillman continued on course past Wrangel Island, then turned southwest toward the Soviet coast. Making landfall close to noontime, Timmins switched on the cameras as the aircraft swung south for a short period, and then turned eastward and flew back toward Alaska, through the heart of Siberia. The weather, which had been bright and clear throughout the flight, changed after the B-47 crossed the coast. Scattered clouds appeared, and occasional haze at the ground obscured viewing of the surface for the remainder of the flight.

    By now, after burning off fuel, Hill-man’s aircraft had become light enough to be able to fly above 40,000 feet and well over normal cruising speed, at approximately 480 knots (552 mph). After two of five target areas had been covered and photographs of the forbidden landscape below had been taken, warning receivers on board told the crew that the aircraft was being tracked by Soviet radar. Gunter swiveled his seat 180 degrees to the rear to control the plane’s only defensive armament, the tailguns. A few minutes later he advised Hillman that he had Soviet fighters in sight, below and to the rear, climbing desperately to intercept them. But the fighters had scrambled too late to catch up to the B-47, and it flew eastward unopposed.

    The aircraft completed photographing the remaining three areas in eastern Siberia without encountering any more fighters. It passed over Egvekinot, then over Provideniya, and turned northeast, exiting Soviet territory at the coast of the Chukotskiy Peninsula. Hiliman flew his B-47 straight back to Fairbanks, landing at Eielson well after dark. A few minutes later, Fleming’s backup B-47 touched down. Altogether, the mission spanned seven and three-quarter hours in the air; the primary B-47 had made a 3,500-mile flight and overflown some 1,000 miles of Soviet territory.

    Technicians immediately developed the film. The photographs would belie the presence of massed Tu-4 bombers in Siberia. Messages intercepted soon after revealed that the Soviet regional commander had been sacked and that a second MiG regiment was to be moved into the area. As for the Americans, members of both aircrews received the Distinguished Flying Cross.’

    The same website has a picture of a B-47B undergoing modification at McDill AFB, Florida in 1952-53 –unfortunately, the USAF censor has blotted out the serial number! :angry::rant:

    I would think this information is no longer classified as a lot the intelligence-related information from that period is available on CIA Korean War FOIA section of the CIA’s website - but I may be wrong… :unsure:

    These two B-47’s are the first Stratojets to have taken part in an operational mission and, in my opinion, they would make great subjects for a conversion of the Hasegawa, B-47E kit.

  12. I need to briefly resurrect this thread as some water-color paintings, by John W.Burgess, of the San Diego Air & Space Museum archives on Flickr, have provide some details on the colors the two MTO YP-80A's.

    The tail chevrons were red and white and the nose letters were blue (not black) on both aircarft.

    But whereas on aircraft 44-84028 'A', the nose-tip, fuselage slanted stripe and wing stripes (which were painted also on the wings' lower surfaces) were red, on aircraft 44-84029 'B' these details were blue.

    The boarding-ladder, typical of the early YP-80A's P-80A-1's was probably painted red as well.

    As to the shades of the red and blue, well the blue doesn't seem too far off the shade of the star 'n' bar in the b/w photos, so I'm guessing it was insignia blue, while the red...why not?...insignia red, and the same color may have been used for the boarding ladder as it doesn't seem too far off the color of the stripes and red chevrons on a/c 028 - my 2-cents only, though ;)!

    Happy modeling!

  13. According to the Wolpak Decals sheet #72011 instructions, the blue used by Air America was FS15044. I have no idea if that particular FS number is covered by any hobby paint manufacturer.

    Interesting that you should ask about the Volpar Beech. I have recently been eyeing off one of the Hobbycraft Beech 18's in my stash and thinking of attempting a Volpar conversion. I have trawled the 'net many many times and found plenty of pics but cannot find any plans, 3-views, conversion sets, etc. I can't even find another aircraft that could be a possible donor for the engine cowls!

    It's probably therefore going to require home made engines, props, undercarriage and possibly windscreen (some Volpars seemed to retain the original Beech 18 windscreen while others didn't).

    Hi James Venables,

    The engines were TPE 331 turboprops, giving some commonality with the TPE 331 used by AA's PC-6/C2-H2 fleet.

    For the engine nacelles, then, one solution would be to 'clone' High Planes AU-23's (kit K072087) resin nose-conversion...



  14. Without the companies' drawings, it's impossible to say with any certainty. Eye witnesses have seen silver on the Hurricane and Typhoon, and green on the Tempest and (one) late Spitfire, but that's a bit thin to base a whole theory on.


    Hi Edgar,

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Now, where would I get the dwgs, given that both Gloster and De Havilland no longer exist?

    For US aircraft, I can turn to the NASM which acts as a repository of vintage aircraft manuals (they have a HUGE selection!), but what about British aircraft?

    Thanks, :)

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