Hurricane Mk IID in SEAC?

[Spitfires Forever]

Just saw a Hasegawa Mk IID in SEAC markings. I assume that they were used in that theatre but from all I have read about the Mk IID it was primarily used in the desert with one unit in G.B. used for a short time in anti shipping role. Anyone know anything about use in SEAC?

Cheers

[Troy Smith]

Hi Randy

here, from one of Nick Millman's blogs

http://rafseaccoloursmarkings.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/20-sqn-hurricane-iid-iv-burma.html

the photos enlarge.

this may be of interest too

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1276259119/SEAC+Hurricane+IV+Info

HTH

T

[Spitfires Forever]

Thanks mate, leave it to Nick to have the research down on this topic. I have the Hasegawa Hurricane Mk IIc in SEAC markings but I also have the MK IId . I thought it might be a nice change of pace to do the IId in SEAC instead of DAF. Now to find the decals.

Cheers

[jaw]

Hi - I have a lot of HUrricane 1/48 decals that I want to sell, including the Model alliance series. There is a list under my topic entry Tempests, Tempests etc ... (don't ask why it is in there!!) that you might want to look at. PM me if interested.

Cheers,

John

[Troy Smith]

Thanks mate, leave it to Nick to have the research down on this topic. I have the Hasegawa Hurricane Mk IIc in SEAC markings but I also have the MK IId . I thought it might be a nice change of pace to do the IId in SEAC instead of DAF. Now to find the decals.

Cheers

Randy

To be honest, you could cobble them together, all you need are 6 SEAC roundels and fin flash [common, you have these in the IIC SEAC boxing anyway]

And in the case of the IID in Nick's SEAC blog, a 'H' in white or grey or light blue [see the Hyperscale link] which as it's all straight lines could be made of decal sheet, ot masked, and the serial, easily made up from a generic sheet or spare from kits sheets, they should be 8 inch high in black.

in the case of 'Cheetah' you'd have to paint the nose art yourself, or just leave it off. This is the only photo I've seen of a SEAC IID.

Note

Code letter and serial combinations for some of the IID aircraft operated by the Squadron were KW757 'Z', KW802 'G', KW863 'P', KW687 'Z', KW874 'X', KX229 'H', KX249 'N', KX294 'N', KX421 'G', KX469 'X', LD498 'W', LD789 'N' and LD435 'B'.

IIRC the Hase SEAC comes as 'EG-N' with a large 'N', if you can live with it, just presume that KX249 'N' is the same finish as KX229'H', which is quite likely, and you are sorted.

Note you will need to adjust some wing panels, see here

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78012

A scale plan of more use....here you go.

Should be 1/24, from the old book on detailing the 1/24th Airfix Hurricane.

if not, I scanned a ruler at the top which should allow you to scale it. Bear in mind you have the top and one side to act as reference for rescribing the rear panel. [compare to IIC drawing in linked thread]

Also handy as has outline and position of gun for those who wish to detail further.

Note, the Hase kit has some panels on the wing underside that AFAIK are not on ANY Hurricane...

HTH

T

[Spitfires Forever]

Thanks again Troy, I can always count on you for this kind of info. I take it the Mk IID wings in the Hasegawa kit are incorrect? Where do they get their information anyway? My scribing skills are not quite there yet for anything too challenging. Perhaps I can swap wings from both kits? It's rarely ever easy is it? Sad that the wing doesn't really work for any version, so that,ay mean my two Sea Hurricane kits are also incorrect. I don't fancy paying for the soon to be released Tamiya Sea Hirricane kit. Oh well.

Cheers

[Troy Smith]

Randy

hmm, you seem confused. I'll post this up for you, but hopefully of interest to other folks as well.

What Hasegawa did for their multiple boxings is this, they made 2 basic wing types.

the 'B' wing, 6x 0.303 per wing

the 'C' wing, 2x 20mm cannon per wing

There were 6 wings fitted to Hurricanes, but in two main subtypes [which is what Hasegawa went for].

they are

1- fabric wing 4 x 0.303 per wing, fitted to the first 600 planes built. [not in the Hase obviously, but the basic structure carried on to standard metal wing]

2 - metal wing 4x 0.303 per wing, as fitted to the MkI and Mk IIA [and early Canadian built planes] sea Hurricane IA and IB

3 - Metal wing 6 x 0.303 per wing, as fitted to Mk IIB [and later Canadian planes] and Sea Hurricane IIB[quite a rare version]

Hase made the 6 gun wing, with the two outer gun panels as raised details, to be sanded off for the A wing. [and scribing round and sanding down for the IIB to be honest]

the inner panels are the same on the A and B wing.

4 - 2x 20mm cannon per wing as fitted to the IIC and Sea Hurricane IIC, [and Sea Hurricane IC, though this seems to have only been built in very small numbers, if at all]

5 - 1 x 0.303 sighting gun in wing, 1 x 40mm gun underwing, the MkIID

6- the 'E' wing or universal wing, capable of being fitted with 40mm gun, bomb rack, drop tank or rocket rails. Enough changes warranted the redesignation of the MkIIE as MkIV

From what I can see this was modification of the D wing, as it also had 0.303 sighting gun.

[the MkIII was reserved for British built Hurricanes with US built Packard Merlins. The Canadian X, XI and XII used these, not sure about the Canadain built MkI's off hand, book not available without waking up her ladyship]

the D and IV wing are based on the C wing, deleting or changing access hatches as needed.

see below.

The C wing has 4 access panel, 2 per cannon.

while the D only has 1 small rear panel, apparently to access the rear of the 40mm gun. As this is a modfied 'C' wing this makes sense, easier to build the main access panels as the C but delete the un-needed one in the rear wing skinning, as can be seen in the IV pics below.

Now, I still don't have a complete answer on the IV. THis is from another thread.

the MK IV has a different panel arrangement, one large panel in the outer position,(for the browning 0.303)and a metal strip not seen on the IIC on the outer edge. And one smaller panel behind the main spar in the inner position for access to the 40mm gun when fitted.

note the blanked out landing light port next to yellow stripe, the 0.303 sighting gun port, and the blanked over inner port, which seems to show that the IV wing was based on a modified IIC wing.

The thing on the wing leading edge next to the joining strip is a camera gun port.

Note

from Tomislav's build, very useful underside detail, note metal plate, which blanks off the bay where the 40mm ammo drum is, stubs for attaching 40 mm gun, and ejector slot for the 0.303 Browning sighting gun.

Of note is the metal strip just by the shell ejector slot, in what looks like the same position as the one on the upper wing.

Are the little bumps further forward to do with positioning of the drop tanks?

Thanks to Tomislav for the photos and helping to answer to my question!

Now, Randy, to make a IID all you need to do is fill the outer rear panel, and reduce in length and curve the corners of the other panel, as shown better in the scale drawings in post No.5 above.

This is not difficult.

I can't access my Hurricane manual right now, as thinking about it the panels on the underside of the wing behind the rear spar maybe for the IV...but I don't think so.

so that,ay mean my two Sea Hurricane kits are also incorrect.

Do you mean the Hase kits of the Sea Hurricane IB and IIC? No, the wings are fine on those, though you have to sand off the outer gun panels to make the A wing.

OK.... any other questions?

HTH

T

[JMChladek]

OK.... any other questions?

HTH

T

What is the airspeed velocity of an unlaiden swallow? (sorry, I couldn't resist).

So, if I want to do an 8 gun wing on my Hurricane Mk I model, all I need to do is sand off the outermost gun port since Hasegawa used their common IIB wing sprue in the Mk 1kits, right?

Reading about the apparent use of 40mm armed Hurricanes in SEAC is fascinating. Considering what the Japanese had for average armor at the time (not much), one of those shells could likely do a real crapload of damage if it hit something armored, let alone a typically soft enemy ground target (unless they were dug into the side of a rocky cave on the side of a mountain).

[Troy Smith]

What is the airspeed velocity of an unlaiden swallow? (sorry, I couldn't resist).

c'mon...everyone knows the answer to that...don't they?

Amazingly enough it's not too easy to find out the above, I've not seen good pics of a MkIV wing in the books I have. IIRC there is an early and late MkIV wing, the late has some underwing panels deleted I think. This site needs more Hurricane buffs I feel.

_{[Though I did get my just turned 2 last week daughter saying 'Hurricane' instead of 'plane' while looking at a Hurricane book... ]}

So, if I want to do an 8 gun wing on my Hurricane Mk I model, all I need to do is sand off the outermost gun port since Hasegawa used their common IIB wing sprue in the Mk 1kits, right?

No, the kit comes with plugs for the gun ports, but you need to sand off the gun and ammo access panels which are 3 raised rectangles outboard of the landing lights. I think the instructions mentions this.

Reading about the apparent use of 40mm armed Hurricanes in SEAC is fascinating. Considering what the Japanese had for average armor at the time (not much), one of those shells could likely do a real crapload of damage if it hit something armored, let alone a typically soft enemy ground target (unless they were dug into the side of a rocky cave on the side of a mountain).

well, depends on the type of ammo, I think this is mentioned in Nick's blog, yep.

The main tasks of the "tank busters" were tactical reconnaissance (Tac R) and offensive recce (OR) against water borne transport using armour piercing (AP) ammunition but by late February 1944 high explosive (HE) ammunition became available for the 40mm cannon in small amounts.

AP shells are not much use against 'soft' targets, a problem noted with British tank guns.

cheers

T