Hawker P1127

[Glenn R]

Hi All,

As requested, here are some shots of my 1/32 P1127 build. The basic structure is the old Revell kit, severely attacked with a razor saw, then stuck back together. This is as far as I have gone as you can see.

The fuselage has been shortened by 9 scale inches, the 'hump' removed over the engine, fin and tailplanes altered, airbrake removed, aft undercarriage bay moved forward, wing plan shape altered, tailcone altered, extra exhaust baffles added and, hardest of all, intakes made smaller and shape altered, which is where I am now as you can see. Some thick 'O' rings have been fixed to the intakes and will then be covered in epoxy putty and shaped. At the end of the day I expect to have more epoxy on the model than plastic! Comments please and any help wouldn't come amiss.

Not totally on subject, but I seem to recall a two-seat conversion for this kit many, many moons ago. IF I am correct, does anyone have one that I may purchase or copy please.

Regards,

Glenn

[xffw45343tg]

Fantastic modelling! Watching this with considerable interest.

Shame that they mold the stabilator sealing plates on to the fuselage rather than the tail plane itself but that would look to present little problem to you.

Which intakes to you plan to model? The one in the Science Museum has the "hover" intakes fitted - I believe as used for the initial hovering flights. Your O-rings look very much like the inflatable intakes, which as I'm sure you know were supposed to provide the ability to achieve optimum intake shape regardless of airspeed.

Watch out for the Reaction Control jets on the tail boom too. Iirc, the aw control changed during development from a swinging jet to the current arrangement and the tail fairing looks quite different depending on which was fitted. I think there are some diagrams at www.harrier.org.uk - ask if you can't find them and I'll post a link.

Afraid I don't know of any 1:32 conversions, although it may be worth having a word with Ian of Heritage Avaiation who still offers a "What if" 2 seat P.1127 (dubbed T.1127) in 1:72(?) and may have plans, etc

1 question: What bang seat is going in? I know GR.1's had the Mk.9, but have never been able to work out what went in the P.1127 or Kestrel?

Keep up the excellent work!!

[Glenn R]

Hi Kirk,

Many thanks for the information, I'll give the website a try.

I'm going to do the intakes that are on the machine at the moment and, I think, the same ones in the photograph in the 'Testing Colours' book.

Having looked at the photos of the aircraft in the Science Museum I THINK the seat is the same one as used in the Lightnings, no idea what mark etc.

Also I've noticed that there are at least three strakes on the underside, perhaps someone can clarify this.

This is like going through a minefield at the moment, here's me thinking it was going to be easy!!

Regards,

Glenn

[Fmk.6john]

Wowow wiwaahh.......that is one of the most serious modelling jobs on this board I'm sure, you must be clinically insane to do that!!!!!!!.

Absolutely gobsmacking stuff so far, keep up the good work and plenty of progress pics please.

JB.

[Cornish]

looks very promising Glenn, keep it up.

[Seamus]

Fantastic work so far I'll definitely be following this one with plenty of interest

[Alan P]

Excellent to see this kind of "job" on the go. Great start Glenn.

[xffw45343tg]

Here are some (appalling quality - but I mostly blame the lack of light/tripod/time) images:

The a/c does appear to have the later tail boom. Note also the chamfered inboard edge of the flaps to clear the hot nozzles and the single main gear door/airbrake. I'm pretty sure there are only 2 fuselage strakes though none of my pics show this particularly clearly. The intakes story is worth a bit of research - I seem to recall seeing a pic of this 'plane on Ark Royal with either the sharper metal lips or the rubber bags. I'll poke around and see what I can find.

Anyway, hope these are of use.

Kirk

[Glenn R]

Hi Kirk,

Very many thanks for those detail photos, you have answered many questions. All I have to do now is to apply all these to the model.

Also, when I asked about the availability of a two-seater conversion kit, I was refering to the Revell Harrier kit, not the P1127, sorry for the confusion.

Regards,

Glenn

Edited November 7, 2008 by Glenn R

[Glenn R]

Hi All,

More antics from the funny farm.

I've managed to scribe the wings and tail surfaces:

The 'Dumbo' intake ears, made from epoxy putty, are now on and drying. I shall need to make some adjustments to the shape and also the joint to the fuselage is not right yet.

Looking at the photos again ---- and again, I find that the nosewheel centre is different from the kit, another problem to sort out:

Till next time.

Regards,

Glenn

[xffw45343tg]

Great stuff Glenn.

Another thing I noticed from the references is that the real aircraft has a much more pronounced curve to the leading edge of the fan nozzle fairing; wheras Harriers have a submerged inlet duct for the forward engine bay cooling system, that on the P.1127 is in the front of the nozzle fairing (& hence the warning markings). This shape is not very apparent in side on views.

I did have a quick dig in my references and found an awful lot on this plane in the excellent Bill Gunston book "Harrier" - ISBN 0711010714. I think it is out of print but quite a few seem to turn up on ebay. There are BAe-sourced pics of your plane over the hover pit at Dunsfold, at RAE Bedford (with the sharp intake lips) and on Ark Royal with the inflatable Mick Jaggers on. Turns out the lengthened tail incorporates a spin recovery parachute.

Are you planning to depict the Science Museum configuration or some other point? Early versions had the glass-fibre fan nozzles which appear to be painted in a dark colour (sorry - black & white pics - they look dark grey) and a variety of markings including circular photo targets, "Hawker P1127" text and roundels. Pitot length seems to vary quite a bit too...

[Dave Fleming]

XP831's current configuration (with the 'big' intakes is a valid configuration - she was used in her latter years at Bedford for low speed trials in that config.

I have a word document somewhere which details all the variations that I have so far identified in each of the 6 P1127s - can't remember exactly how many - over 20 in total any way. There were 3 different intake configs, 3 tailplane, 2 fins, 3 wing styles, 2 styles of rear fuselage fairing - you get the picture!!!

Hugh Merryweather wrote a book on the P1127, but from a modelling point of view there's not much in it that isn't available elsewhere. Wings of Fame 13 is a good reference.

Your model is looking fantastic - the Revell kit is a better start than most Harriers as the P1127(RAF) intakes make hacking that back easier!

Edited November 7, 2008 by Dave Fleming

[Glenn R]

Hi,

Thanks for the information again guys, I do have both books mentioned. I hope to finish the model in the configuration she was just before she left Bedford. Once again, this a minefield for me, but I'll try to get the model as close as I can to the original with your help.

Regards,

Glenn

[Mike]

Nice work so far Glenn You're a brave man & no mistake Have you decided whether you're going to represent the myriad rivets that are quite prominent on the preserved example? If so, how? Enquiring minds need to know!

[The Hooded Claw]

Now I'm no scratchbuilder (not least anymore) so I'm mightily impressed with this as both a concept and a build. It looks good so far.

One thing and Kirk may be able to correct me on this but the intakes and the noseside fairings associated with them seem to be located further back on the fuselage than the model ones. It seems that the P1127 intakes are associated with a shorter trunking and hence longer fairings. Take a look at the relation ship between the top if the intake and the canopy framing and see if you agree.

THC

[PHIL B]

Wow Glen. So the fine line between genius and insanity is once again demonstrated. Don't worry, I think you are on the right side.

I think you might be getting carried away on the Dumbo ears concept by even having an elephant on the splitter plate!

Seriously though, amazing work. I can't wait to see the rest of this one.

Phil.

Hi All,

The 'Dumbo' intake ears, made from epoxy putty, are now on and drying. I shall need to make some adjustments to the shape and also the joint to the fuselage is not right yet.

Till next time.

Regards,

Glenn

[xffw45343tg]

Not 100% sure what you're getting at here Ian. Certainly the intake bellmouth is swept backward in plan view, and I think Glenn's are probably a tad over square at present, but I think they're about right where they meet the aft end of the cockpit at the second frame aft of the front of the nose landing gear bay (dunno the frame numbers on a 1127 so this must sound a bit vague). This would make sense and it the same relative position on a Harrier. There's a fair bit of scope for shaping that filler and Glenn seems to have a far better understanding of the 1127 than I... Dave's probably the one to comment?

[Dave Fleming]

I think I can see what Ian means - I think it's the shape of the side fairings that needs amending - I think they might be too short and taper too much

[Derek Bradshaw]

Glenn,

Lovely conversion - one that I also intend to attempt at a future date, so I shall be watching your build with interest. I assume that you managed to scale up some drawings to 1/32 scale - if so, which ones did you use? I very much look forward to seeing this conversion completed, as it looks great so far.

Best regards

Derek

Edited November 20, 2008 by Derek Bradshaw

[Spence]

That's a truly wonderful conversion and should look superb once complete. One thing would put me off though and that's getting the surface ready for that metal finish - wow! Just how much work will that be..?

Spence

[KLP Publishing]

Lovely work Glenn. I don't know anything about the subject matter, so I can't offer anything there, but I will be following along in admiration!

Kev

[Glenn R]

Hi All,

Here are some more photos of the build.

The new centre for the nosewheel is almost complete, just needs a bit of tidying up.

Tailfeathers are now on.

The 'step' on the nose is roughly done and all the intakes cleaned up and a coat of primer applied to show up any faults, this is the second coat after correcting the faults that the first coat revealed.

I need some help here. In the Harrier kit, there is a distinct 'crease' in the fuselage in line with the wing trailing edge (as shown). Does this also appear on XP831? If it does, all well and good. If it dosen't, my only option now is to fill it with epoxy putty, blend it in and live with it. I have a horrible feeling that one of you is going to tell me that the fuselage contour differs on XP813 from the Harrier in this area. We shall see!

Regards,

Glenn

[Dave Fleming]

It seems to be there - have a look at the photos on page 13 of the Wings of Fame article

[avro683]

Stunning work there Glenn. Will be a real show stopper wen it's finisked.

Tony

[Glenn R]

Hi Guys and Gals,

A little more progress has been made:-

The cockpit has been completed, I used a seat from the Echelon Lightning, copied in resin and added seat straps.

The wings are now on and all (I hope) gaps etc. filled and sanded.

I'm not sure how I'm going to replicate the flush rivets yet, I need to experiment a little.

The next job is scribing the panel lines and fitting the rear portion of the nose probe. Till next time.

Regards, Glenn