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V stands for Vacform ......


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I'd like to do my Heritage Vulcan, but I have cut the plastic from the sheet, and put some milliput on the upper fuse, along with some cuts, to accurise it a little. On a percentge scale, I'd say the model is 1/10 of 1% complete. As it has been "started", would that make it ineligible? Otherwise, I'll do the Panther Sea Vixen-

Lee

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List update 21.01.09

peebeep

perry

Dave Gibson

TrojanThunder

Tornado64

general melchett

Mike

English Electric

Steve Zodiac

Overkiller

Graham

Daniel

Tony Frey

tornado64

Lawnguylander

JohnRatzenberger

Darius at Home

Ollieholmes

Ted Taylor

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Timbo33

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wkennerley

heraldcoupe

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peebeep

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List update 21.01.09

peebeep

perry

Dave Gibson

TrojanThunder

Tornado64

general melchett

Mike

English Electric

Steve Zodiac

Overkiller

Graham

Daniel

Tony Frey

tornado64

Lawnguylander

JohnRatzenberger

Darius at Home

Ollieholmes

Ted Taylor

Deon

Timbo33

Doug Rogers

wkennerley

heraldcoupe

BigReg

Lawnguylander

peebeep

Argh! I'm listed twice- does that mean I have to build two kits???!!!! :analintruder:

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Oops, sorry Lee, I'm not functioning normally at the moment (some say I never do) thanks to a luvverly virus infection.

List not updated 22.01.09

peebeep

perry

Dave Gibson

TrojanThunder

Tornado64

general melchett

Mike

English Electric

Steve Zodiac

Overkiller

Graham

Daniel

Tony Frey

tornado64

Lawnguylander

JohnRatzenberger

Darius at Home

Ollieholmes

Ted Taylor

Deon

Timbo33

Doug Rogers

wkennerley

heraldcoupe

BigReg

peebeep

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If I find a subject unusual enough I might join in with this. I've never even thought of tackling a vac kit before though. Is there certain manufacturers to avoid and those better suited to a newcomer?

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi please count me in - not sure what yet, Rareplane Skyshark, Welsh Victor 2, Maintrack F-107A, Rareplane Dove...have to see what's in the loft!

Rick

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

I picked up a Rare Planes Seafire for a few pounds at the Peterborough show. Now I have looked at it, I'm not sure why! The plastic is very thick, and the propellor is horrible... This will be my first Vac-Form, so any advice? I'd like to stick with it, I guess the plastic thickness will just be a case of get on with it... Can anyone recommend a replacement propellor, as a vac formed ane at 1/72 in that thickness of material is just not going to happen for me... help!

Dan

Edited by Daniel
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Hi

When does this GB start? I need to know when to clear the decks to make room for the C-133....

:giles:

Darius

I think its May Darius if I remember correctly.

So, what are we all intending to build?

I have a choice of 3, all 1/32. I have a Vickers Wellington but I'm still gathering information for that. A Fairey Firefly and a Westland Whirlwind. Its gonna be a toss up betwen the Whirlwind and Firefly but, I think I'm going to go with the Whirlwind coz I've got most of the info I need for it.

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This is my Vacform building article, which is still 99% relevant. I haven't seen Sandvik sanding tools for some time. Perhaps the moderators might like to move it to somewhere more convenient.

Just remember Vacforms are not hard and use scrapers for fast plastic removal.

Cheers

John

VACFORM MODELLING, a modern approach?

by John W.Adams.

Models featuring the vacuum formed method of construction have been around for a long time. However, many people who consider themselves to be competent modellers, will still not attempt this form of construction.

Also I speak with an equal number of modellers who have had a go at vacuum forms and made (what appears to them) to be irredeemable mistakes and given up in disgust.

Why! Do they lack confidence, patience or skill? Perhaps the answer lies in the traditional techniques.

These vary slightly on the theme, "cut out and sand down parts using an abrasive covered board either wet or dry". Some advise modellers to leave a rim of waste plastic around the part. The theory here being that when this rim wears down to a thin membrane and breaks off, the correct thickness has been achieved. In fact, if the average wall thickness is 1mm and a rim of 2mm has to be sanded away, that to me spells 3 times the effort.

Let us look at the problems.

1. Vacforms are difficult to cut out.

2. I can't see how far to sand down.

3. My fuselages end up like bananas.

4. Parts are difficult to hold whilst sanding down.

And some common mistakes.

5. My trailing edges end up too thick and the wing appears flat.

6. I make a mess of cutting out cockpits and wheel wells.

7. I have taken to much plastic off.

Now let us look at some answers.

Start off with the right tool for the job, a good knife with a replacable blade is essential.

I always use a straight edged blade such as a Swann Morton 10A pointed blade with a No3 handle. (The No 11 blade is too fragile). This type of blade is good for most jobs, but knives such as Edding and Stanley are best for heavier work. Olfa and Scribe 'N' Cut, make tools who's primary purpose is scribing panel lines but can be used to score through very thick material. I use blades with a curved edge,only for scraping.

Hold the scalpel comfortably like a pen and angled away (about 45 deg) from the piece to be removed. Score all around the part using reasonable pressure.

1. The first myth to dispel, is that vacforms are not cut out by brute force, but merely scored around with a sharp blade.

Once the surface of most sheet material has been broken by a cut or score and that sheet is then stressed by bending so as to open the cut, the sheet will invariably break along the cut, no matter how wiggly the score line. Always take some cuts out to the edge of the sheet and start the break-out there. Practice on a piece of waste plastic.

2. Before scoring out the parts we must have a marker to show how much plastic will require removing by scraping or sanding (abrading) so the parts will fit together. We can use a fine (0.1) pointed marker pen, preferably permanent ink. A soft (B) sharp pencil will suffice. (I now favour a cheap Staples click feed .5 lead draughting pencil). I find the best results are with a Rotring .25 (or similar make) drawing pen ideally filled with the type of ink specified for use on plastic drafting film (I use both Red and Black ink for contrast). Simply draw around each part where the part meets the backing sheet. This ink line shows us where we score and where we need to remove plastic. Be accurate. The ink line is King.

The part when broken out is then sanded down to the pen line.(more anon).

3. Fuselages end up like bananas, because, when using the traditional techniques any pressure on the centre of the fuselage will cause the part to bow, and as this is usually at the widest/deepest part, the wall plastic will be thinner. The waste plastic at the ends of a tapered fuselage, drop tank or nacelle or wing tip (where a mould cavity narrows) will be thicker . Consequently the centre edges of the part abrades away more quickly than the ends. Also slight 'moulded in' stresses can cause a part to bow when released from the constraints of the backing sheet.

Obey the ink line and the parts will straighten and fit, when taped together.

Paragraph 4. should provide a solution.

4. When using the traditional abrasive paper covered board the following formula applies. ‘Finger ends tend to disappear at the same rate as the plastic’, or when the water turns red , that's far enough! Also parts are slippery and tend not to want to move against the drag of the abrasive. There is nothing to grip, on such as tailplane halves or wheel halves.

We need some form of adhesive tape which is resistant to shear (drag) loads, and tacky enough to grip on a curved surface, and yet peel off easily when required. Also something to hold the part in comfort.

A method often employed to hold parts whilst sanding is to use some ordinary kind of sticky tape, either made into a loop or of the double sided variety, often using a piece of wood as a handle.

These tapes are not made for the job and are either too strong or too weak. The part keeps falling off or will not come off easily. Blu Tak is equally unco-operative when used for this purpose.

The answer is Sticky-pads and Tee-Al. (If this just sounds like a blatant advertisement , the simple truth is - they work)! Sticky-pads measure 12mm x 25mm and have a fabric base coated with a high-tack but highly peelable adhesive which is very resistant to side loads. Tee-Al is simply handy lengths of Tee section aluminium extrusion used as handles, other materials can of course be used.

When these two items are combined, handling of vacform parts becomes very easy. A suitable piece of Tee-Al has one or more Sticky-pads removed from the backing strip and positioned on the top face of the 'Tee' and then the protective wax paper is removed from the pad. The vacform part to be worked on is simply pressed into place and abrading or scraping can begin.

Even small curved or rounded parts can be secured by this method. In trials I have easily held and sanded down the mating surfaces of small difficult to hold parts such as drop tank and wheel halves. Highly curved parts like propeller spinners can be held by drilling a hole (in a piece of wood) and cover it with a Sticky- Pad, cut radial slits in the Pad and push in the spinner. A pair of wheel halves took a mere 3 minutes including cutting out.

Sanding down the parts.

For sanding (abrading) the parts I prefer to make my own handy sanders by affixing abrasive paper of the required grit (80!) to a piece of Tee-Al (or wood,even tube) with ordinary double sided tape (I recommend the new Selotape range). Thus a whole range of sanding tools can be created for little cost.

Alternatively you can use a Sandvik Handy Sander fitted with a medium Sandplate. Sandplates are rectangular metal self adesive plates (110x60 mm) with a pin point textured surface fitted to an orange plastic, comfortable handle. It is an excellent tool and widely available. Sandvik also produce a smaller tapered Hobby sander which has it's uses. Sandvik also make a larger type but beware as I have found the moulded plastic handles may have a slight curve, and so the plate is not truly flat, however the self adehsive plate (220x60mm) suitably mounted can be very useful (I have one on the bench top). I sometimes use a 10 inch single cut File (Farmers friend) of the type sold for sharpening lawn mowers (the handle is forged on the blade).

Leading and trailing edges can be reduced most effectively by scraping,using a heavy duty craft knife blade (Stanley knife). This is held almost at right angles to the surface and scraped to and fro along the wings inner surface. Use the curved type for single surface biplane wings. If you want to use two hands,then Tee-Al can be easily held in a small vice. Scraping is by far the best method and is a very fast way of removing material. You can scratch build wings this way.

When a Polyhedral wing (cranked or gull) is encountered, just treat the wing in separate stages.

There are other advantages to using this system. Work can be carried out at a convenient eye level thus enabling closer monitoring of the plastic removal. Parts such as wings are kept flat. You can work over a sink wet or dry so the dust can be washed away. Dust is the enemy of the tacky surface. Once adhered to a dry surface, Sticky-Pads will remain in place even under water. If water gets between the pad and the part, adhesion will cease, but can be reactivated by drying.

Trailing edges must be treated separately to the leading edges, which is the answer to problem no 5 (flat wings). If you draw a chord line through a section of vacform wing ( representing the flat abrasive board) it should be noticed that the leading edge meets this line at a much steeper angle, presenting a smaller area to the abrasive than the trailing edge. This means that more plastic will have to be removed from the latter. So if the old abrasive board method of sanding is employed, it's all to easy to take off too much of the leading edge whilst concentrating on the trailing edge, if both edges are in contact with the board at the same time.

Let us now take a look at cutting out waste areas such as wheel bays cockpits or windows.

As a general rule I do not remove waste areas until I have most of the mating surfaces sanded down, unless they project in some manner as to be a nuisance to progress. Whilst still in place, waste areas help with maintaining rigidity.

With a cockpit, or nosewheel, or gun position cut-out such as on the conventional fuselage split line, it is best to line up the two halves and secure them with a little tape. When you are satisfied that all is correct, score around the matching waste areas to be removed.

Now separate the taped halves and where the score lines reach the edge of the part, make a positive nick with the knife.

Now support the fuselage at the nick with the finger and thumb or a small pair of pliers, then start to shear the waste with the other thumb nail or a second pair of pliers. When the waste part is begining to move, change to the other side of waste bit and start off the shear there. Within seconds the tear should follow round the score line and the waste part should break cleanly out. When pressure is first applied some distortion may be apparent but you will notice it springs out.

For rectangular areas in thicker material,make two cuts with a fine razor saw, the ends of which are joined with a score line and then cracked out.

When an aperture needs to be made in in a fuselage side or a wing surface we apply a slightly different technique.

Score around the area accurately and carefully. It does not matter if the shape is rounded or square, but if the shape of the required cut-out is complex (for instance a Spitfire wheel bay) divide into separate areas,ie a circle and a rectangle. Now score diagonal lines across the waste area’s within the scored outline and at the intersection of these lines make a hole by forcing in the scalpel tip or if the plastic is too thick make a hole with a small drill. Using the scalpel tip, start to apply a cutting pressure along each diagonal in turn. It will be noticed that the little tri-angular pieces are starting to curl inwards shearing along the scored lines. Now, take a blunt instrument like a small screwdriver simply push in the tri-angles one by one. They should drop out like petals, with moderate force. A pair of needle nosed pliers may be helpful in removing the waste and it actually takes less time than reading this paragraph. For very thick plastic, use a fretsaw / piercing saw.

If you do not possess either of these useful saws, or a razor saw, you should!

Glues,

For vacuum forms use the thin liquid solvent glues. These are often Methyl Ethyl Ketone based. The correct method of use is to hold the parts together and apply the glue to the joint with a brush or Touch 'N' Flow solvent applicator. Capillary action will take the glue through the joint while light pressure is applied. I do not recommend solvent glues for laminating plastic sheet (use slow set Cyano).

Always work in a well ventilated room when using any solvent based glue and keep the glue covered when not in use.

The wide family of Cyanoacrylate or more commonly called 'super-glues' are best used when small, or dissimilar materials are to be joined, or reinforcements or instant results are required. If cyano's are used on canopies a white 'blooming' of the transparency may occur. This is caused by the 'gassing' cyanoacrylate reacting on contact with the hygroscopic plastic surfaces, and being clear you can see it. Do not remove the top of your cyano bottle and dispense glue straight from the bottle, the tingle in your eyes is the same effect as on your canopy!

Buy a small glass mirror or culture dish lid and dispense a drop of glue at a time, dip a pin or a cocktail stick into this to apply the glue. For a measured drop try breaking off the tip of the eye of a small needle so as to produce a fork (be careful of your own eyes when doing this). You will need to clean out the fork with the tip of a blade occasionally, or flash it with a cheap cigarette lighter. An excellent way of dispensing along “run” of cyano is to use an old fashioned draftsmans bow pen, just load with cyano instead of ink. No it wont work with a Rotring type pen.

There are a number of accelerators (often called "kickers") on the market which speed up the setting rate of cyanoacrylate glues. These can contain 1.1.1. Trichloroethane, so treat with caution.

Ordinary Bi-carbonate of Soda has a similar effect, and can be used for building up areas quickly. I will expand on this later.

P.V.A. base glues such as Kystal Klear are the best for affixing transparencies. Apply with a small brush or cocktail stick. Any excess can be cleaned off with a damp cloth. P.V.A. can also be thinned with water.

Transparencies

These seem to give more than their fair share of problems. I seldom put a knife any where near a canopy, instead prefering a small very sharp pair of scissors. Buy high quality. Next, can you see what you are doing. I find that working against a mono coloured background a help. You will find the background required varies according to the light. If the frame lines are indistinct, then cut strips of masking tape and use them to define the no - go areas. Work carefully, trim the waste off a little at a time, Flex-i-files are good for sanding the edges, but remember to remove the dust and most importantly do test the fit of the canopy to the fuselage frequently.

When you are finally satisfied with the fit, hold the canopy into place. Now run a brush full of liquid glue (Mek) around the edge, then apply slight pressure. Repeat with the glue and hold for a minute. If you allow the glue to dry you will find that the canopy is nicely bedded in. It can be easily removed for painting and may be finally affixed using Krystal Klear.

If there is no moulded rim on which to seat the canopy then glue strips of thin plastic card to form a rim around the inside of the cabin opening. Should you then find that the fuselage plastic is of thicker gauge material than the canopy, then simply build up or pad out the rim with narrower strips, until the canopy is flush with the fuselage surface .

This is fiddly but not difficult.

But remember if you have over sanded the fuselage, your canopy will not fit!

Battle damage repairs.

Or, "I've taken off too much plastic". It's not the end of the model, we can repair most mistakes. Most initial problems are caused by failing to mark or score out accurately. So if for instance an inconsistent score line has caused a piece to stay with the backing sheet when breaking out, simply retrieve it and glue into place using super-glue, then sand down as normal. If it's a large tear/spilt then you might want to reinforce with a piece of plastic card.

All repairs are best carried out using super-glue (Cyano's, Cyanacrylates), because you get instant strong joints, which sand well.

A more common mistake is, over sanding of parts. especially on fuselage halves. Usually this is caused by not obeying the ink line or by being over enthusiastic when sanding down and not checking often enough. If one fuselage side has had too much removed from the middle (banana) then the answer is to assemble the parts together with tape and assess how much is missing. Once this is ascertained, glue some suitable strips (taper if required) into the gap, glueing only to the wounded side. Gap filling cyano can be used but if this is not at hand, use super-glue and bi-carbonate of soda (baking powder) to bridge the gaps. You just apply super glue and then a pinch of bi-carb, this soaks in the glue and instantly sets hard, Repeat the process until the wound is filled. Then restore the contours using a tool such as Flex-i-file or Flex-i-pad.

The result will be a strong hard repair much quicker than using two part or tube fillers.

If the case is a trailing edge with a large piece missing, then the best approach is to cut out the area and square it up, then glue into place a piece of suitable size plastic strip, use super-glue and/or baking powder again and file to shape.

When damage occurs to a corner of a wing tip, prop blade or something like the end of a tip tank or radome, simply apply super-glue and then dip in a small pile of bi-carb, this will harden immediatly. Repeat the process until a suitable sized blob has formed and then file back to shape. If you have to use those vac-form props then this is the solution for filling the blades.

When joining fuselage halves it is usual to strengthen the joint with strips or tabs of plastic card glued into one half so as to form a rim on to which the other fuselage half fits. A better fit will be achieved on very curvaceous fuselages if these tabs are placed at intervals and stick outwards, 10 thou card is best. It is a tedious job cutting a number of these tabs, so I use an office paper punch to produce a load of little plastic discs which will contour nicely around the inside of a fuselage half, even if the half fuselage does look temporarily like a Viking ship.

Perhaps here a word of caution about choosing your subject. Vacuum form kits vary in quality. If you have never before attempted a vacuum-formed kit please don't be tempted to go out and buy that 15 year old Scruggs Four Engined Wonderplane kit. Instead try a few simple exercises, get some plastic card and make a new tailplane for that damaged Mustang, or practice making holes in a piece of plastic card. There are lots of cheap vacuum formed kits around often from Eastern Europe, and they can be picked up at model shows. Examine the kit and if it's crisp and cleanly moulded it will probably fit together well, If it looks blobby and ill defined, don't buy it.

If some items like spinners or wing roots are thin and crushed then re-inforce with Milli-put or bi-carb but never use tube type fillers (most tube type fillers are only good for shallow surface blemishes as they usually work by solvent evaporation).

Milli-put if properly mixed and placed on a storage heater or hot domestic radiator (below 70deg) will harden very quickly and not affect the kit plastic. (Here’s a tip, mix and heat the Milli-put before applying it -it will harden just as fast, but use it quickly. It is advisable to wash your hands immediately the putty is mixed and again after the application is completed.

The following useful tip came via one of my customers.

To fill well fitting joints such as leading edges and fuselage centre lines scratches or panel lines, use Tippex Correction fluid, Note it must be the bottle which incorporates a Red oval 'Perfect' design in the label and not the one with a Green oval. The enviromentally friendly one may do wonders for typists but it's no good for modelling. Tippex bonds very well, dries quickly and sands beautifully.

White metal

Most recent vacuum formed kits contain detail parts cast in white metal, or suitable parts can be purchased to improve older kits. The best adesive is cyanoacrylate. White metals usually contain a proportion of lead, (Those called Pewter should not) so don't eat when working with it and do wash your hands.

Blow holes or any deficiency in the castings are best repaired with the super glue and bi-carb combination. Milli-put or Plastic Padding car body fillers also adhere well to white metal.

If a hole in a propeller or engine is too big then bush it with a piece of plastic or metal tube. Household pins make good strong prop shafts.

However the occasion often arises when there are no under carriage legs available for that old large kit. The solution is Aluminium or Brass tube. This can be bought in a variety of concentric sizes with which you can fabricate oleo legs. If you can not find it in your local plastic kit store, then make a visit to a Model Railway shop or one specialising in flying models. You will be amazed what goodies you will find. It does puzzle me still just how parochial many 'plastic kit bashers' are!

Tube can be easily cut with a fine saw or even with a heavy duty craft knife by rolling the tube back and forth with the blade as you apply pressure. Plastic card fillets or fairings can be stuck on to the metal with super glue or 5 minute Epoxy, then filed to shape. Brass has the advantage of being soldered for greater strength (exit plastic modeller-stage left).

Axles can be glued to the end of the tube, or drilled right though to accept a piece of wire (a section of sewing pin) which can be sleeved up with metal or plastic tube to scale size.

If you are boxing in a wheel bay, make the top from thick plastic card or if it is a kit vacuum formed item, strengthen it so that it can be drilled to take the under-carriage leg.

Metal tube can be utilised for wing spars, and when threaded through a fuselage it can be bent either side to set the dihedral angle.

Jigs

The assembly of any type of kits can be facilitated by making jigs. A jig can be as simple as a piece of plasticine, or an elaborate affair constructed from plastic card. With only a little imagination, a few pins, cocktail sticks,plasticine,right-angled tri-angles cut from card and a square of card with lines drawn on to it,for a base even the most complex biplane can be set up for accurate final assembly. (I wrote this before I thought up my universal Jig system)

Vacuum formed models do require some hand and eye skills but remember these can only be discovered or improved upon if you are prepared to have a go, the hardest part is picking up the scalpel and making that first cut,(sorry,score). If this article fires some of you to stretch your horizons or provides a solution to a particular problem then it has achieved its aim. If on the other hand you are going to sit back and wait for the Big Injection Company to produce that Scruggs Wonder plane , I have it on good authority they never will. So you might just use your time while saving up for the resin from Blob-o-Kit (who probably nicked it from the vacuum form anyway),to have a go, and find as my youngest daughter used to say the World can be your Lobster!

Copyright . John W. Adams. Aeroclub Models

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When does this GB start? I need to know when to clear the decks to make room for the C-133....:giles:

This GB is set to run May-October for those wishing to have a model available for display at SMW 2009. For those that don't want to display or simply expect to take longer to complete we will run until December.

Keep an eye on the calender here.

peebeep

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Don't know how I've managed to miss this thread before!!!

Count me in, not sure what though, 1/48 Scimitar, Gnat or even Gannet or 144 Shackleton, Victor or Vulcan (purchased only last week!)

Add me to the list.....

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This is my Vacform building article, which is still 99% relevant. I haven't seen Sandvik sanding tools for some time. Perhaps the moderators might like to move it to somewhere more convenient.

Outstanding article John, once we get a GB forum up I will copy and pin it if that's OK with you as I'm not able to move individual posts.

I may need a reminder, somebody please give me a KUTA if it looks as if I've forgotten!

Participants update 19.03.09:-

peebeep

perry

Dave Gibson

TrojanThunder

Tornado64

general melchett

Mike

English Electric

Steve Zodiac

Overkiller

Graham

Daniel

Tony Frey

tornado64

Lawnguylander

JohnRatzenberger

Darius at Home

Ollieholmes

Ted Taylor

Deon

Timbo33

Doug Rogers

wkennerley

heraldcoupe

BigReg

Spad

OzH

peebeep

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Still planning a Gotha IV for this. I'm not expecting to do a very good job with it, but it's all for good fun.

Had no luck finding the Aeroclub metal set for it though. At least everything is still there on the vac sheet, just cruder and more work for me.

I'll be looking out for other possibilities, but vacs are pretty hard to find.

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OK - As I've got too many in the to do pile - I'll dive in too (providing I've got somewhere with the JU-52 in the Spanish Civil War GB)...

Perhaps an SM-79, or Hampden... :suicide:

What are the dates for this GB again?

Iain

Edited by 32SIG
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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello

Quick Q for the mods- would kitbashing major parts to a vac model rule out a vac model? I'm thinking of doing a project, that would be made easier if I could pinch the wings from another, unrelated kit. the reason I'm asking is it would save me scratching the wings, which would be nice, if possible....

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Hello

Quick Q for the mods- would kitbashing major parts to a vac model rule out a vac model? I'm thinking of doing a project, that would be made easier if I could pinch the wings from another, unrelated kit. the reason I'm asking is it would save me scratching the wings, which would be nice, if possible....

Dunno yet, but it'll be taking into consideration for you! Things should be moving on this one in the next couple of days ;)

Karl.

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Probably going to join this mass induction to the black art - as it's a rite of passage that I've not performed yet.

I've got a Rareplane MeteorF8 in the stash (wish I'd know about the Xtrakit model when I bought that!), and various Matchbox+Airfix accessories.

I've also got a Rareplane Savage, but I'll do the Meteor first.

Offering a Rareplane A3 Skywarrior for 10quid (includes decals) to anybody who wants to collect it from me at Gloucester Model Show next month.

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