Airfix 2012

[Wez]

I've said it before (in this thread actually), we need a decent 1/48th and 1/72nd Javelin, Hunter T7/F4, Gnat (not 1/72nd), Meteor, Vampire, Venom, Jet Provost, Tempest II/V/6 (in 48th), DH Hornet, Phantom FG1/FGR2... ...long before we need a Supermarine Fat Knacker (Swift) or it's even portlier nautical brother (Scimitar). I'd prefer decent kits of the T-33 (both scales) and Mirage III/V (except the Mirage IIIC in both scales please) before the two Supermarine efforts please

I'm not trying to be provocative, I just don't think the Swift or the Scimitar were significant enough aircraft compared to the others in my list I (admittedly the DH Hornet is not that significant but it is a damn sight more elegant than than either of the Supermarine aircraft).

I've included the Phantom FG.1/FGR.2 because the Fujimi 1/72nd kit isn't without some shape issues and the Hasegawa 1/48th kit retails for an arm and three legs!

British aircraft seem to be overwhelmingly popular - here at least! I wonder why ?

Wez

Edited November 30, 2011 by Wez

[Madam I'm Adam]

This is a bit left field but how about..............

1/48 or 1/32 Bloodhound missile set up ??? Like they did in 1/72

Or 1/35 to go alongside Trumpeters SA 2?

Ah but Airfix don't do 1/35...pity they would be a beautiful couple...

[fids]

I'm a bit of a rotor head, Wessex, Puma and Seaking in 1:48, I'd like that

1:72 Hip (rasberrry ripple).

Dreaming on about 1:48 Phantom too

Edited December 1, 2011 by fids

[lufbramatt]

I've walked past the VC10 at duxford countless times with various different people, some aviation enthusiasts, some not, and never once stopped to have a proper look at it, once or twice someone has asked me what it is, and the answer means nothing to them, they're completely oblivious to the importance of the aircraft. Even duxford themselves have left it outside to rot.

When we get to the lancaster, mossie, spitfires, tornado, phantom etc we'll spend ages looking at the exhibits. Aggressive looking planes bristling with guns and bombs. It comes down to if Airfix/Hornby have x amount of money per year to invest in new kits, are they going to put all their eggs in one basket (as a 1/72 VC10 would be a very expensive kit to tool) making a kit of something less famous than all those types? How many Nimrod kits have you seen on sale at £16.99 as they just couldn't shift them? Similar subject matter (but arguably a more interesting looking model), similar size kit, hyped on the internet "there will be thousands who will buy that", poor sales.

No matter how important a type it is, its still a big white or grey tube. who wants to have that on display? no funky camo schemes or interesting weapons fits (unless you do what-ifs)

The 1/24 mossie sold well because it is a very famous plane (imo third after the spitfire and lancaster in terms of British WW2 aircraft), has starred in numerous films and documentaries, and the model features loads of really nice features such as complete cannon bay detail, machine guns, fuel tanks etc. I'd even say that younger modellers are much more familiar with WW2 types as it's a subject that is covered in schools and close range combat with machine guns is much more exciting and inspiring than an airliner converted to a military transport. As you say, you can see VC10's in the background of shots of Tornados etc. So it makes much more sence to spend the money making a kit of the Tornado . .

[John B]

Hmmm.... it all makes me wonder why some subjects get produced at some companies and others don't. At one company, it's whatever the boss (who's last name is the name of the company) feels like. At another company, it's obvious that subjects are selected based on how many variations of the same kit can be released by substituting a few sprues and varying the decals. At another, decisions seem to be made based on what would've been good subjects 2 years prior.

I wonder if there is a "Mr. Airfix" (figuratively speaking) looking over a preserved Hunter or Harrier and pondering whether to pick it as the next subject in 1/48. Maybe it's a bunch of soul-less number-crunchers who haven't ever built a model? Perhaps there really is a giant dart board in an executive's office that darts (arrows) are blindly thrown at? What was the trigger that caused Italeri to lease the flawed Hunter molds from Academy? Was it based on the winning bids on eBay auctions? Who knows?

As someone who is "on the outside looking in", I'm simply at a loss why Airfix (a symbol of UK modelling in my part of the world) hasn't produced a decent Harrier or Hunter (2 symbols of UK aviation to the outside world). Then again, I'm at a loss to explain why my government chooses to name aircraft carriers after politicians who never served in the Navy.

Who can explain the irony that the best-selling or newest 1/48 kits of Lancasters, Beaufighters, Corsairs, Tomcats, and Mustangs are produced by companies outside thier "country of origin"? I'd be hard-pressed to explain the logic to a non-modeler.

I can't help but wonder if the same mind-sets that led to the retirement of the HMS Ark Royal (R09), failure to preserve USS Enterprise as a museum (CV-6), cancellation of the TSR.2, retirement of the Space Shuttle program, and change of the formulation of Coca-Cola is now at work at the model companies...

For the record, I selfishly hope the next 1/48 all-new subject from Airfix is a 1/48 Hunter-series or a Harrier/Sea Harrier series.

Edited December 4, 2011 by John B

[jasman71]

If I may add a couple more thoughts to my previous wants... I've been picturing a rather nice BP Defiant and Gladiator in one of the larger scales - probably 48th but 32nd could be special. But I also agree with a few other comments in that I like to see a lot of the back catalogue getting a re-vamp (says he with most of it in the insulation). Yet more examples of Spits and 109's may well be popular sellers (handy when you're a business!) but not very original. Yes I can hear cries of not pleasing all the people all the time, so please. Mr Airfix, give us a nice surprise now and then

I could reel off an endless wishlist, but just as a new(ish) hat in the ring, how about a range of light private types in 72nd or 48th? I know, I can hear the collective groans already... but apart from a resin manufacturer, we haven't seen much at all in the way of aircraft that we all probably see everyday (possibly surpassed only by airliners), and I guess that a Cessna 172 wouldn't sell as well as a Sea Vixen..

[Seahawk]

Hmmm.... it all makes me wonder why some subjects get produced at some companies and others don't. At one company, it's whatever the boss (who's last name is the name of the company) feels like. At another company, it's obvious that subjects are selected based on how many variations of the same kit can be released by substituting a few sprues and varying the decals. At another, decisions seem to be made based on what would've been good subjects 2 years prior.

I wonder if there is a "Mr. Airfix" (figuratively speaking) looking over a preserved Hunter or Harrier and pondering whether to pick it as the next subject in 1/48. Maybe it's a bunch of soul-less number-crunchers who haven't ever built a model? Perhaps there really is a giant dart board in an executive's office that darts (arrows) are blindly thrown at? What was the trigger that caused Italeri to lease the flawed Hunter molds from Academy? Was it based on the winning bids on eBay auctions? Who knows?

Yes, I wonder what thought process led Airfix to settle on the Gnat as a subject for a new kit. Mass public recognition not high nowadays and which of us enthusiasts would have selected it as either our choice, even less our bet, for the next subject from the back catalogue to be reworked. Not that I'm complaining, you understand. If the policy is surprise (eg "every 15th model shall be something from way out left field the b****rs won't have thought of"), then I think my 1/72 Blackburn Shark Mk.III is in with a shout. Otherwise, I'll be waiting for the Czechs.

[canberraman]

The choice of the Gnat is clearly down to the Rec Arrows effect. Although the initial boxing focuses on the Training Command scheme, it's surely only a matter of time before it will reappear in the Arrows colours. I would also imagine that having done all the research and measurements for the 1/72nd kit it is likely to be upscaled to 1/48th in due course. I think the Airfix/Hornby marketing is quite shrewd. They are putting out a steady stream of kits with mass market appeal, viz the succession of Spitfires, Harriers, Hawks, Zeroes, together with re-releases of kits from their archive which in many cases are the only game in town. And to supplement the wider market, they are issuing a trickle of newly tooled models of more esoteric appeal such as the Valiant, which I'm sure is only being bought in the main by British modellers over a certain age!

Like many others I would dearly love to see a VC-10 but I suspect that is unlikely in the current economic malaise. If Airfix can however, continue to consolidate their share of the market, and keep building on their growing customer base, it could happen, but I'm doubtful in the short to mid term.

Mark

Yes, I wonder what thought process led Airfix to settle on the Gnat as a subject for a new kit. Mass public recognition not high nowadays and which of us enthusiasts would have selected it as either our choice, even less our bet, for the next subject from the back catalogue to be reworked.

[snowen250]

As someone who is "on the outside looking in", I'm simply at a loss why Airfix (a symbol of UK modelling in my part of the world) hasn't produced a decent Harrier or Hunter (2 symbols of UK aviation to the outside

Id argue that the GR9 they have recently released is one of if not the finest 1/72 jet aircraft released over the past 12 months. And easily the best harrier.

Don't forget people Airfix exist to make money for shareholders. Much as id like a new 1/72 Betty or Emily, it isnt going to happen from them!

[Seahawk]

The choice of the Gnat is clearly down to the Rec Arrows effect.

What Red Arrows effect? Anyone who can remember the Red Arrows flying Gnats will be reaching Zimmer frame age soon : not the vibrant young end of the market Airfix have been so successful in reinvigorating. Anyway, like I said, I'm not complaining.

[thx6667]

On what exactly do you base your assertions? A 1/72 VC-10 would not be so much bigger than 1/24 Mosquito and, as far as price goes, it doesn't seem to have affected sales of said kit. You cannot surely judge "mass appeal" from the people on a forum such as this. They will of course be the loudest voices but I do not believe that Airfix would make a decision based on this mythical handful of people. You cannot either with any degree of certainty predict exactly what the sales figures will be. Nobody knows because the kit does not exist.

You can, kinda, past performance of similarly large 1/72 kits that rarely hang around a range for more than a couple of years tell their own story. Couple that with AMT/ERTL's experiences of the KC-135, XB-35, YB-49 and XB-70 kits... it all points to subjects being talked up as cert best sellers only for the market to go AWOL.

The Mossie is different simply because it is a more recognisable, iconic aircraft, Mossies have been the mainstay of the Airfix range almost since the beginning and are up there with Spitfires, Lancasters and Harriers as being core Airfix best sellers (as evidenced by their longevity in the range) - long story short, retailers probably have more confidence in ordering a 1/24 Mossie than they would a 1/72 VC-10 that would partially hang on this mythology that there's airliner modellers just waiting out there for a kit like this, like King Arthurs army waiting to rise again.

I dont buy the "most people don't know about it"argument either. "Most people " are not model makers & I respectfully suggest that "most model makers" WILL recognise a VC-10. Surely these are therefore the only opinions that count in this context? That does not of course guarantee sales either. However, does familiarity with subject necessarily guarantee sales? Well, to a certain extent it possibly does but, I do not believe this is the sole deciding factor. I suggest that among the "mass market", there is also a large degree of impulse buying - "Look daddy, that's nice, can I have one"?

The question of price is a difficult one. Obviously,Airfix would have to pitch the price low enough to generate sales but, high enough to turn a good profit but, there are plenty of kits available costing a lot more than £50. Does this necessarily have a serious effect on sales? I'm not necessarily convinced it does.

I respectfully suggest that real reason why a 1/72 VC-10 is unlikely to see the light of day is largely because Airfix simply will not take the business risk. THey could very well sell 100,000 but, without some way of measuring likely sales, they simply won't invest their hard earned! A point of view that I sympathise with by the way! I think a certain amount of risk is involved in any business but, in this case, the risk is not being taken.

On the assumption that people from Airfix's marketing dept will read a forum like this, it might be interesting if they could offer their own comments on the subject of deciding what & what not to produce.

I seem to remember in the dim and distant past, when Humbrol had their own forum, they used to do just that only to be told they were wrong and to have every answer picked apart and naysayed.

I'd agree I think a VC-10 is too much of a risk - yes you can offset that with the banker subjects, but frankly given the resources that would be tied up in doing such a kit, would they not be better served on more entry level, accessible kits for the next generation?

Edited December 4, 2011 by Jonathan Mock

[John]

Yes, I wonder what thought process led Airfix to settle on the Gnat as a subject for a new kit. <snip>

I would expect the thought process to have been fairly straightforward - Hornby know how many of the old Gnat kit they sell year on year and deem it worthy of investing in a new one. I doubt there's a great deal more to it than that.

Look at the smallest gift sets -

old Gnat

old Spitfire MkI

Kittyhawk

Typhoon

old Zero

FW-190D

Seahawk

Yak-9

4 of these moulds have been replaced already. That's where I would expect to see Hornby investing in the next couple of years, phasing the rest these out and replacing them with newer kits.

A nice new Fw-190D and Typhoon anyone?

John

[Giorgio N]

I would expect the thought process to have been fairly straightforward - Hornby know how many of the old Gnat kit they sell year on year and deem it worthy of investing in a new one. I doubt there's a great deal more to it than that.

Look at the smallest gift sets -

old Gnat

old Spitfire MkI

Kittyhawk

Typhoon

old Zero

FW-190D

Seahawk

Yak-9

4 of these moulds have been replaced already. That's where I would expect to see Hornby investing in the next couple of years, phasing the rest these out and replacing them with newer kits.

A nice new Fw-190D and Typhoon anyone?

John

If I had to bet a tenner on airfix 2012 new subjects, the Fw.190 would be one I'd choose! Not sure yet if a D or a radial engined one yet. And it would be a wise choice, one of those classic subjects that always sell well. I'd probably choose a Mustang over a Typhoon, but I wouldn't complain about a new typhoon.

Now if Airfix will also look at replacing the larger gift sets, I've seen many including the F-5E and the Mirage III kits... now these would make me happy !!!

[John]

I forgot the Gazelle in the "small" gift set list.

The "medium" sets are:

Westland Whirlwind

Mirage III

F5E

P47

P51D/K

Harrier GR3

The Mustang could well be a contender, but I'm still backing the Typhoon!

John

[John B]

Hmmm... I wonder why the 1/48 Seafire FR46/47 & Spitfire 22/24 wasn't closely followed by a Fairey Firefly Mk 5/6?

I'm pretty certain it has never been produced in 1/48th injection-molded and there are still examples in existence. Admittedly there weren't as many operators as the Spitfire22/24, but one might conclude that it would be as popular as a 1/48 Sea Fury kit.

[Giorgio N]

Admittedly there weren't as many operators as the Spitfire22/24, but one might conclude that it would be as popular as a 1/48 Sea Fury kit.

Not sure there weren't as many operators: the Firefly was exported in Australia, Canada, Netherlands and Ethiopia, with a few more countries using the Mk.I version or derivatives. Maybe less squadrons overall ? But not sure about this at all.

Not that this might have much to do with the popularity of a kit...

[John]

Hmmm... I wonder why the 1/48 Seafire FR46/47 & Spitfire 22/24 wasn't closely followed by a Fairey Firefly Mk 5/6?

I'm pretty certain it has never been produced in 1/48th injection-molded and there are still examples in existence. Admittedly there weren't as many operators as the Spitfire22/24, but one might conclude that it would be as popular as a 1/48 Sea Fury kit.

The availability of the Seafire 47 has been a bit patchy over the years - maybe it wasn't quite as good a seller as Airfix had hoped? Availability of the Spitfire 22/24 has been better.

John

[John B]

Okay, I admit I don't own many 1/48 Airfix kits (currently just the Spitfire 22/24 and Sea Harrier FRS.1, but I did own the Hawk and Buccaneer kits at point), but it seems that they've had "different" levels of (for lack of a better term) "production quality". Based on my limited sampling, the Sea Harrier kit is definitely on the "lackluster" end of the spectrum, the Hawk is more towards the middle, and Spitfire 22/24 is towards the high end of the spectrum in terms of 1) accuracy, 2) mold-quality/engineering, and 3) fit issues.

Would it be fair to assume that Airfix has chosen to produce all future kits on the "Spitfire 22/24" end of the spectrum and stop producing kits of "production quality" as the old 1/48 Sea Harrier FRS.1?

=OR= Would it be a safer assumption that they would produce kit on a high/low spectrum where some kits would fall in the "1/48 Hawk level" and other kits at "1/48 Spitfire 22/24 level"?

=OR= Should we not be surprised if there are all-new Airfix kits released at the "Sea Harrier FRS.1" level of quality?

[Julien]

I had heard that the Airfix side of hornby was not going as well as they expected so they might be dialling back the new releases some?

Julien

[Richard M]

Half yearly report seemed positive...

Hornby Half Yearly Report

http://online.hemscottir.com/ir/hrn/ir.jsp...834140630951246

INTERIM MANAGEMENT REPORT

Your Board is pleased to update shareholders on the solid progress that the Group is making. During the period under review the Group has made excellent progress in building sales in Continental Europe and has laid the foundations for further strong performance in the United Kingdom. This will be enhanced in the short term by the London 2012 Games opportunity, and underpinned by impressive product development initiatives designed to continue this trend in the future. The Group is in good financial health. Our broad spread of categories and brands, coupled with increasing geographic reach places us in a strong position to continue to drive growth.

Sales of Airfix continue to grow as we extend our distribution of this product range both in the UK and overseas. The all-in-one gift sets continue to be a major driver of growth. Development of new ranges of 1:48 scale military vehicles, aircraft and figurines based on the equipment currently employed by the British army is nearing completion. We expect this new range to be very successful when it is launched early in 2012.

BBC News Article

Modelmaker Hornby has said sales in Europe over the past six months rose 50% compared with the year earlier.

The firm - which makes model railways, Scalextric car racing kits and Airfix models - said the rise helped pre-tax profits increase by 80% to £959,000.

The result was also helped by a 4% rise in sales in its core UK market

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15689609

Telegraph Video

Hornby - past, present and future

Frank Martin joined Hornby as chief executive 10 years ago. He tells Retail Editor Harry Wallop what the future holds for the makers of toy trains, Airfix and Scalextric sets.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finance...and-future.html

[Seahawk]

I had heard that the Airfix side of hornby was not going as well as they expected so they might be dialling back the new releases some?

Julien

Didn't get the faintest whiff of this at Telford: the Airfix guys were almost overwhelmingly upbeat.

[davidelvy]

Would it be fair to assume that Airfix has chosen to produce all future kits on the "Spitfire 22/24" end of the spectrum and stop producing kits of "production quality" as the old 1/48 Sea Harrier FRS.1?

I think it would be more accurate to say they will be of a quality which could be described as Hawk plus. The reason I say this is because the Spitfire 22/24 and Seafire 46/47 kits were produced from moulds using cast beryllium copper. One of the things Trevor Snowdon told me at Telford (and repearted in his lecture) was that these moulds cost three or four times as much as the spark erosion process used on kits such as the Hawk. With the Spitfire 22/42 Airfix had the go-ahead for their then owners to pay for the best available and what they ended up with was Tamiya quality mouldings. For all their enthusiasm I cannot see Hornby repeating this type of investment.

Having said that, they probably don't need to as the spark erosion process has clearly improved significantly. This means that whilst the Spitfire Mk XII has detail which is not quite as fine as the Mk 22/24 it is not too far off and is significantly better than the Hawk.

[thx6667]

I had heard that the Airfix side of hornby was not going as well as they expected so they might be dialling back the new releases some?

Julien

Really? Then again there were once claims that the Nimrod and Canberra kits had been cancelled and the RNLI had washed their hands of the Lifeboat kit, so if you hear anything prefaced with the words "well I've heard..." treat them with more than a pinch of salt!

[Vulcanicity]

What Red Arrows effect? Anyone who can remember the Red Arrows flying Gnats will be reaching Zimmer frame age soon : not the vibrant young end of the market Airfix have been so successful in reinvigorating. Anyway, like I said, I'm not complaining.

I suspect that the vibrant young end of the market will think along the lines of "Oooh! A Red Arrow! Mum can I have one?" rather than "Oh dear, why have Airfix invested needlessly in a kit of the Red Arrows' former aircraft when they could merely have sold more Hawks?"

The point is, if they're aiming at kids their market audience is generally unlikely to notice the difference between two small red, swept-wing training aircraft...

[John B]

....Having said that, they probably don't need to as the spark erosion process has clearly improved significantly. This means that whilst the Spitfire Mk XII has detail which is not quite as fine as the Mk 22/24 it is not too far off and is significantly better than the Hawk.

Well that is certainly reassuring to hear. It almost guarantees the mold quality of the Hawk would be the "minimum" level of moldquality. If so, that is certainly not a bad thing. Those financial reports from the stockholders meeting are even more reassuring.

Were the Buccaneer molds made with the same mold technology as the Hawk? If so, then there certainly has been improvement.

Just an slight aside, does anyone understand the arrangement that Airfix had with Grand Phoenix/Aeromaster/AIRES years ago? I'm speaking of the Lightning F.6 and Seafire FR.46/47 that were re-boxed with resin, photo-etch and alternate markings. Were these were one-off projects from "a previous regime", a short-term venture, or is there a real possiblity that such releases could reasonably be expected in the future?

Edited December 15, 2011 by John B