Foxley Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) Hey guys, I'm getting in to airbrushing and after many, many weeks of research (I swear I've read every single result on Google!) I just can't decide on which airbrush to go for. It's between the Iwata HP-CH and the H&S Infinity 2 in 1, both of which aren't that much different in price. Since it's my first airbrush I wanted to go with something that was more of a general purpose than excelling in one area. The Iwata is a 0.3 where as the H&S Infinity includes both a 0.15 and a 0.4 and the different sized cups, plus you can get the extras to make it a 0.2. Personally I'm leaning more towards the Infinity, because it can take the different sizes, however, I've read quite a few topics saying that the 0.15 is far too small for most paints unless thinned perfectly (I use Vallejo Model Colour/GW). I don't think I'd hardly use a 0.15 anyway unless I was doing freehand camo on a Flames of War tank or something equally as small, yet it would be nice to have for the future. Is the difference between a 0.3 from the Iwata and the 0.4 from the H&S a huge difference? I've also read that the Infinity is easier to clean than the Iwata. However, the Iwata does have the MAC valve adjustment, whether I would use it or not I'm unsure. The reason I'm wanting to get in to airbrushing is so that I can start painting model kits. I'm generally interested in aircraft/tanks, but will dabble in various bits and bobs, maybe even a submarine. (Always wanted a U-Boat) Painting with brushes just doesn't give the same finish as an airbrush does, and painting a 1/35 Panzer with a paint brush pretty much summed up why I needed to start up airbrushing. Does anyone have any opinions on the two? I'd love to be able to try them out myself but, unfortunately, there's no where around me that I can, so I'm simply going off other people's opinions and YouTube videos. It would be great to hear your feedback. Edited October 20, 2011 by Mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Av8fan Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) NM. I have not had enough coffee. No chance at all of making it to a show? That would help a fair bit I think. Both are fine choices I feel. I thought that this was a pretty good thread in case you missed it: Link Best of luck with your choice, and remember: practice, practice practice. Edited October 20, 2011 by Av8fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) I love my Iwata HP-CH and just run the standard needle - anything finer will probably just clog (I'm mainly acrylics these days). Mines approx 6 years old now - has been well used and no parts replaced yet. Love the 'feel' of it and the levels of control. This is freehand with the Iwata: But I know others that swear by the H&S... Both great pieces of kit. Iain Edited October 20, 2011 by Iain (32SIG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tank152 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'd go with the Iwatta, I've had 3 trouble free years with mine. I'd say they are far more robust than H & S ones. But yes you'd be as well to get yourself to a model show. and try some out before you make your choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuts Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hi, another vote for Iwata had my HP-CS for 4 years now no problems at all firing trough enamels/laqurs, acrylics or Alclad, only thing I swap it for is another Iwata.... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnerboy Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 another vote for Iwata....and the MAC valve is so useful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnerdad Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 In my opinion, go for the Iwata, it's brilliant and the MAC valve is very useful (though you can get an inline one for the H&S but it's a little clumsy). You can get a finer nozzle too for the Iwata, and although I've got the fine tipped infinity, my HP-CH can pretty much spray as fine, and it can knock out a decent spread too. I use it almost exclusively, despite owning an infinity. The infinity is very nice though and for ultra fine work I use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael louey Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hi Mic, I have both an Iwata HP-C plus and an Infinity 2 in 1. I only bought the latter as they had a great sale going on in the US where the thing was about half price. For general use, the Iwata is fine, however I'm not sure whether it is me or the particular brush/head assembly but I can never do any fine work with it (e.g. mottle, exhaust staining) without some splatter when the trigger 1st goes on. I have used a crown cap with it and it makes no difference, neither does thinning more. This isn't really an issue for general coverage but as I originally bought it for detail work it was a bit of a problem. I ended up using a local 'home brand' brush imported here in Australia by 'Runway 13' with which I did most of my detail work until I got the Harder and Steenbeck. I must admit, cleaning the Iwata hasn't been too bad yet though I have to be careful with the micro tip. I have also bent the needle a couple of times but have managed to fix it. Parts here in Australia tend to be expensive. The Infinity is fine, though I personally think it is a bit more work to clean. Parts have been a bit cheaper. It's manufactured really nicely but I find I have to be a bit more careful putting it back to ensure it works smoothly and doesn't 'stick'. I mainly reserve this brush for detail work. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstore Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Both are good airbrushes, but I prefere the solid feel of the Iwata. Properly used, the HP-design airbrushes are hard to beat. Problem is probably that a lot of people, myself included, complicate their use by stripping them down completetly after each use. I used to strip them down even between colour changes. Usually, it isn't necessary. Pour out the leftover paint, swipe out the worst with a soaked rag, fill up with some thinner (depending on what kind and brand of paint your using), spray until you have clear thinner coming out. Backflush by blocking the nozzle and opening the air, taking care that you don't touch and bend the needle (with a standard needle cap, you only need to put your finger in front of it). This forces air backwards, trough the nozzle, along the needle and into the paintcup. You will see that a lot of paint breaks loose, and colours the thinner in the cup. Pour out the dirty thinner, and remove the needle and swipe it trought the wet rag, and put it back in. Repeat until clean. In 99% of the cases this is enough. No disassembling needed. But to be sure, disassemble the airbrush once in a while, and make sure it is completely clean. Once a month is usually enough for the average user. Clean every part with cellulose thinner, making sure it as clean as when new. After cleaning, bring out the car wax. Old fashion, silicon free wax. Wax every part (exclude nozzles inside, since it is a bit hard to clean out), and clean of. Put a bit of wax on every thread (including the nozzle thread), and reassemble the airbrush. The wax will make the airbrush feel lubricated, and easier to clean, since paint sticks less to waxed surfaces. As a bonus, it performs at its peak, since the wax also makes it air tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstore Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 without some splatter when the trigger 1st goes on. I have used a crown cap with it and it makes no difference, neither does thinning more. Sounds like the problem is that the needle doesn't close the nozzle properly. One of them might be deformed, or the needle isn't completetly in its most forward position. My suggestion would be to exchange both. Costly, but it should fix your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxley Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Thanks guys, that's a lot of replies and I'm very grateful. Some questions, if you don't mind of course. @Av8fan - Unfortunately not. It's about an hour or two to get to any shows, 3 - 4+ for places like London, depending on traffic I suppose. Work constraints don't help either. Thank you for the link to that thread as well, that was one I missed and read it completely. @Iain (32SIG) - Those are some fantastic looking shots of the Messerschmitt Iain! Right up my street! One of the following posts says that the HP-CH struggles with very fine lines, do you find this to be an issue at all? I can understand for some tasks a good old paintbrush would be used but do you ever come across tasks where the Iwata just can't do what you want? @turnerdad - I think you actually answered my above question to Iain, however, you did mention you use the Infinity for really fine detail. Do you have any examples of that? By that I mean, would you use it for really small free hand designs, or very fine panel lines or something similar? @Michael louey - Thanks for the clarification on the cleaning of the Infinity. Nearly all the posts I have read said that the Iwata was more difficult to clean. Thankfully the parts for either aren't that different price wise as far as I'm aware, with the H&S coming in a little cheaper. (Though don't quote me on that) One question that I still have is the difference between the 0.3 Iwata and the 0.4 H&S. Is there much of a difference in coverage? I do like the Iwata and it comes with a good reputation and a lot of recommendations, but something keeps telling me to keep the H&S in consideration. Little-cars kindly sent me a PM with some other bits of information for me to consider as well, one point in particular was the large cup of the Iwata (9mm) and how it can get in the way when doing fine detail work. Another plus for the H&S I imagine due to the removable cups. Keep the comments coming guys, it's great to read and really informative. Thanks! Edited October 21, 2011 by Mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pte1643 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 My next AB will be the Iwata HP-BH, I've already checked it out at my local dealer, and shall be making the purchase after I've gotten Xmas out of the way. The HP-BH comes with a 0.2 nozzle and smaller cup, if this is an issue. Obviously the CH (if purchased) will take the smaller nozzle, at a later date, should you require it. Although it sounds like you've already made your mind up... You WANT the Infinity, but everyone is recommending the Iwata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstore Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Keep the comments coming guys, it's great to read and really informative. Thanks! Must say that I've never felt that any cup has blocked my sight when airbrushing. I don't look down the body when I airbrush. I look a bit from the side, like when I use a pencil, or a paintbrush. The main reasons for chosing smaller cups is in my honest opinion to have less wasted paint, and maybe most important, to get the shorter bodies of the smaller cup airbrushes. Using a shorter airbrush puts your hand closer to the object you are painting, usually the kit for us modellers. It is like holding a pencil close to the tip when doing fine detail. Edit: reason to reasons. Edited October 21, 2011 by denstore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pte1643 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) The main reason for chosing smaller cups is in my honest opinion to have less wasted paint I feel it must be said... Just because you have a bigger paint cup, doesn't mean you have to fill it up. Edited October 21, 2011 by pte1643 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstore Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) I feel it must be said... Just because you have a bigger paint cup, doesn't mean you have to fill it up. No, but usually you need to clean away a lot of paint sloshed about on the walls of the cup anyway. Or do you only clean the bottom half of a glass after drinking, if you only filled it half way up? And even if it isn't necessary, I usually put more paint in the large cup airbrushes. And I think other do as well. Edited October 21, 2011 by denstore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pte1643 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 you need to clean away a lot of paint sloshed about on the walls of the cup anyway. I've told you to keep away from the trampoline while you're airbrushing. Previous post was obviously a joke btw, hence the smiley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstore Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Previous post was obviously a joke btw, hence the smiley. Didn't take it as something too serious either. But just needed to clarify what I meant to the thread starter. No trampolines, but I have experimented with airbrushing nude. I promise, no pictures where taken, so, you can keep reading the thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetblast Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) One question that I still have is the difference between the 0.3 Iwata and the 0.4 H&S. Is there much of a difference in coverage? I do like the Iwata and it comes with a good reputation and a lot of recommendations, but something keeps telling me to keep the H&S in consideration. I would say that the Iwata 0.3 head set-up performs somewhere between the H&S 0.2mm & 0.4mm set-up's & probably slightly closer to the 0.2mm - it's fair enough as a pretty rough guide to consider same sized needle/nozzle arrangements from different manufacturers as comparable in performance / spray pattern, but in reality other differences come into play that make X's 0.2 quite different from Y's 0.2. As well as the 0.15, 0.2 & 0.4mm sets for the Infinity, there is also the often forgotten 0.6mm set - although it has a standard air cap with the "solid" needle cap as opposed to the "clear view" cap fitted to the 0.15, 0.2 & 0.4mm "Fineline" sets. The option of larger cup sizes come into it's own when using the 0.6mm set. The HP-CH is without any doubt an excellent airbrush & may better the Infinity in some areas, but if it's versatility that you're looking for.................... Edited October 21, 2011 by Jetblast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstore Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) The Eclipse HP-CS and the HP-CH are quite different animals. The HP-CH is in my opinion a better detailer, but the Eclipse might be a better alround brush. One thing about the Eclipses that I have tried, is that they usually have great triggers from the start. The HP's are sometimes a bit rough in the start, but when they are worn in, they are tight and smooth at the same time. Edited October 21, 2011 by denstore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) @Iain (32SIG) - Those are some fantastic looking shots of the Messerschmitt Iain! Right up my street! One of the following posts says that the HP-CH struggles with very fine lines, do you find this to be an issue at all? I can understand for some tasks a good old paintbrush would be used but do you ever come across tasks where the Iwata just can't do what you want? Never had a problem - with paint properly thinned it goes down to a fine line. I have four airbrushes (actually 5 - also have that Aztec thing that I bought when it was hyped as the next big thing - but never got on with it!) at present (have been using airbrushes for 35 years) and the HP-CH is the finest for most model paints. The only one I have that can beat it is an old Royal Sovereign - but that will only cope with ink! I really like the ability to 'stop down' the air pressure just behind the needle... The airbrush is only part of an equation though - different paints behave in different ways - getting the thinning/consistencey right is crucial - a good stable air pressure (and control over this) is essential - as is a moisture free supply from an air tank. I can't provide a performance comparison with the H&S - have only heard good things. But for me I'd only replace the HP-CH with another Iwata. What I could do with is a trigger action brush with larger needle/head and paint reservoir for varnishing and doing large areas - I think the trigger will be my Constellation if I ever get her to the paint stage as it will need something that gives a wider coverage. Iain Edit - just read Denstores post re stripping down - rarely do that with mine. Needle and nozzle regularly - but nothing else. Just a blast through with solvent after use and a wipe over. Edited October 21, 2011 by Iain (32SIG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetblast Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 The Eclipse HP-CS and the HP-CH are quite different animals. My mistake...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstore Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Not a bad one. The Eclipse is probably the better brush for the beginner anyway. Easier to maintain, and less picky with paint/thinner ratios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael louey Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Hi Denstore, Thanks for the tip about the solution to the splatter. I would say that the brush has had this problem from new though, before I had ever damaged (and repaired) the needle. As I mentioned the cost of Iwata parts locally is quite high, so I may buy a replacement needle but changing the nozzle would be really costly. For the time being, as my Harder & Steenbeck and Runway 13 airbrushes are fine for detail work it is really not a priority to get the Iwata working any better as it does a good job as a general coverage workhorse. Mic, The cleaning comments are just personal. I can see why some would think the H&S is easier to clean (i.e. no microtip and you can (but mabye shouldn't) take the needle out from the front - I've read that this may cause internal damage to the guides). I just find all the fiddly bits of the H&S (graduated nozzle, preset and the need to get the seating just right means the H&S takes a bit longer to get back in 1 piece. I tend to strip down the whole brush after each session which others may not do. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxley Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Bit of a late reply guys but, unfortunately, I haven't been well. Regardless, I'm now back in action and after taking everyone's excellent and constructive comments and opinions on board, I have placed an order! I won't say which one, instead I will post some nice pictures for all to see when it arrives. Time to camp outside my door and wait for the postman! Edited October 28, 2011 by Mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxley Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Its arrived! Its arrived! Doesn't everyone love getting parcels? It's like Christmas. So after weighing up all the pros and cons, and all the comments and advice posted, I came to the conclusion that the H&S really wasn't what I needed. I liked the Iwata from the start, it was the one I originally chose until I discovered the H&S. And I must say, I'm very impressed with it and it goes well with the Iwata compressor I got along with it. My first time ever using an airbrush ended up as a disaster though, with paint going everywhere and then the whole airbrush getting blocked and clogged up. It was a huge downer, but to be fair, I knew I would have problems, it's the only way we learn. It wasn't a fault of the airbrush at all, it was the Vallejo Model Colour I was using - and me of course. I obviously hadn't thinned it enough and it had dried all over the place. God knows how, but I actually got paint in the other end of the airbrush! Anyway, after that little disaster I took the whole thing apart, which, to be honest, is really, really easy, I actually thought there would be some skill involved but there really isn't, it's just a case of unscrewing a few bits and pulling the needle out. So I learned from that how the airbrush works and operates, how the air picks up the paint and so on. (I actually thought the needle was what the paint passed through, I didn't realise it didn't have a hole in it! Talk about a newbie.) So I took everything apart and soaked it in airbrush cleaner for about 6 hours then gave everything a good clean. Looks as good as new again now. I also had another little test run, this time with the same paint but thinned much, much more, and a little retarder added for good measure, oh, and the PSI lowered. Whole thing worked a treat, no blockages, no spitting! I'm thinking of picking up some of the Vallejo Model Air colours for airbrush use, I have a feeling the Model Colour route will cause many hassles further down the line. Anyway, here it is! Cheers guys, your advice was fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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