Airfix Vulcan

[PhoenixII]

Hi Don,

if i may say, excellent build of the Sea Vixen.

Just to put my HUGE wooden spoon into the mix, on a slightly different topic!!!

I drive a Japanese car too. It came with everything included in the (very reasonable) price. It all continues to work perfectly.

Interesting! Which make?

Nissan? (built in Sunderland, Oh, and owned by Citroen - Peugeot - Renault group!)

Honda? (bodies built in Swindon? engines built in Wales [and, i'm reliably informed, the only car now built with the use of 'feeler' gauges])

Toyota? (built at Burnaston, [just south of Derby] with 80% of production being exported back to Japan. Just how bad is U.K. build quality?!)

Come on Tamigawa, buy Airfix and run it like a 21st century manufacturer!

Never happen, two totally disparate marketing systems.

Tamiya go to town on the 'uber' kits, and unless it's in the vein of the 1/32nd Spitfire (Mk. VIII. IX and XVI) you wait years between releases.

Also the bulk of their revenue will be from the R/C side of the business.

Hasegawa, or their importers, would kill the brand stone dead. (had a look at this weeks Hannants 'hot sheets?)

Just wanted to point out that things 'aint always as bad as they may appear, and not as 'black and white' either!

Paul

[Rizzo]

Tamiya go to town on the 'uber' kits, and unless it's in the vein of the 1/32nd Spitfire (Mk. VIII. IX and XVI) you wait years between releases.

Also the bulk of their revenue will be from the R/C side of the business.

A lot of the RC kits Tamiya still make are also from the 80's. Compared to modern designs they're slow, heavy and handle badly. And they sell well (and are not cheap), because people do love the nostalgia value!

I'm not saying it's the same as the old Airfix kits, but it must be a factor too, right? I know I'd love to make the old Vulcan kit again, because I remember it so well from when I was a kid.

[Bertie McBoatface]

Hi Don,

if i may say, excellent build of the Sea Vixen.

Just to put my HUGE wooden spoon into the mix, on a slightly different topic!!!

Interesting! Which make?

Nissan? (built in Sunderland, Oh, and owned by Citroen - Peugeot - Renault group!)

Honda? (bodies built in Swindon? engines built in Wales [and, i'm reliably informed, the only car now built with the use of 'feeler' gauges])

Toyota? (built at Burnaston, [just south of Derby] with 80% of production being exported back to Japan. Just how bad is U.K. build quality?!)

Never happen, two totally disparate marketing systems.

Tamiya go to town on the 'uber' kits, and unless it's in the vein of the 1/32nd Spitfire (Mk. VIII. IX and XVI) you wait years between releases.

Also the bulk of their revenue will be from the R/C side of the business.

Hasegawa, or their importers, would kill the brand stone dead. (had a look at this weeks Hannants 'hot sheets?)

Just wanted to point out that things 'aint always as bad as they may appear, and not as 'black and white' either!

Paul

Honda actually, and the fact that it was made in Swindon was my point really. Get Japanese management enthusiasm over here and British built cars are good again. Shame they didn't take over our shipbuilding, aircraft, motorbikes, fast food and models too. I think that British management generally has been in decline since the end of the nineteenth century - bring back Queen Victoria!

[thx6667]

Shame they didn't take over our shipbuilding, aircraft, motorbikes, fast food and models too.

Were back to what was said before - does making fewer kits that are less affordable for a majority of modellers make sound business sense?

Edited October 2, 2011 by Jonathan Mock

[venomvixen]

I wouldn't have considered it as personal attack, just one side of a robust debate! And that's one thing I do enjoy so if you're ever in sunny Aberdeen, drop me a PM and we'll continue this debate over a pint or two!

Ditto

(cept for the beer part cause Poms dont drink proper beer! )

Personally I think the Airfix Scooter is an A-4A (A-4D1)

[Giorgio N]

Were back to what was said before - does making fewer kits that are less affordable for a majority of modellers make sound business sense?

Making fewer anything that is more expensive and targets a richer market makes great business sense !!! Who gives better rewards to the shareholders, Porsche or Fiat ??? Of course to address the upper levels of the market quality must be guaranteed.

Problem is that none of the model kit companies mentioned here can be compared to Porsche: tamiya and hasegawa are expensive to us, but in their home markets they are not particularly expensive, so much that a tamiya 1/72 spitfire bought in Hong Kong costs very little more than airfix's.

Maybe Fine Molds can be considered a "high end" manufacturer who's more expensive than the others ? But really plastic kits are all at the lower end of the overall model enthusiasts market, even the tamiya 1/32 superkits.

[thx6667]

Making fewer anything that is more expensive and targets a richer market makes great business sense !!! Who gives better rewards to the shareholders, Porsche or Fiat ???

You've answered your own question there though Giorgio - Fiat also owns Ferrari, Maserati and Alfa Romeo, but Fiat still sells Fiat, they've not repositioned the Fiat brand to sell high performance, high cost cars at the expense of the market that wants affordable hatchbacks which is the point I am making.

Of course to address the upper levels of the market quality must be guaranteed.

Problem is that none of the model kit companies mentioned here can be compared to Porsche: tamiya and hasegawa are expensive to us, but in their home markets they are not particularly expensive, so much that a tamiya 1/72 spitfire bought in Hong Kong costs very little more than airfix's.

Maybe Fine Molds can be considered a "high end" manufacturer who's more expensive than the others ? But really plastic kits are all at the lower end of the overall model enthusiasts market, even the tamiya 1/32 superkits.

Absolutely, its all relative, but if you have a large and strong market for kits at a certain price point does it make good business sense to junk that and chase the money at the narrowest end of the market with fewer releases that cost more? Sure, you could do it, but then who fills the gap of the larger - non-enthusiast - market? Your competitors? Try telling that to the shareholders!

I think you can have a two-tier approach - cheaper, affordable kits for the mass market end while pitching more specialist products that are not exactly pocket money prices, that way you can have £5 Spitfires and £30 Sea Vixens.

I think I've mentioned the pricing differential every time people talk about "greedy Hasegawa" - such is the huge cultural demand for modelling on that island, I was once told by a Japanese kit rep that if the rest of the world stopped buying kits, Japan could still carry on no problem.

And here's a question - biggest kit company in Japan, Tamiya or Hasegawa?

Edited October 3, 2011 by Jonathan Mock

[plimsol]

Hardly anecdote - years worth of near identical and consistant experiences at events where kids come into contact with modelling as well as sales trends that don't tell lies either. What about the Project Airfix school kits? Sales of starters sets? Gift sets? The evidence is there.

I'd be curious to know what your own experiences have been in getting kids interested in modelling Graham, I have a bucket loads of first hand stories and I'm sure John has too. Equally you should have a look at the Airfix Facebook page to see how some of these "poor" kits are actually tackled by people not yet imbued with the hindsight of an enthusiast. That's not to excuse poor products, just showing that they sometimes do not represent the hobby destroying obstacles that tend to permeate anecdotal hyperbole from the comfort of a keyboard.

we used to run a leisure week at the end of term and i used to do a modelling class but i never got any feed back (nor did i expect to)

[Giorgio N]

You've answered your own question there though Giorgio - Fiat also owns Ferrari, Maserati and Alfa Romeo, but Fiat still sells Fiat, they've not repositioned the Fiat brand to sell high performance, high cost cars at the expense of the market that wants affordable hatchbacks.

Not entirely correct: Fiat has shares in Ferrari, but don't own them completely. They own Alfa and Maserati completely, or better they own the brands, as little else remains of the two. And the money that gets back in fiat's pocket thanks to ferrari

But the main point here is that quality products sell even if more expensive. There is a reason why german car manufacturers, who have always valued the quality of the product, are now the most important (and profitable) in the world while those companies that used to follow the idea that the consumer will always buy any crap as long as it's cheap have either gone (BL) or have survived only thanks to generous injections of public money (fiat and renault).

Vokswagen is a grat example of this: started as a manufacturer of cheap cars and moved on to become a benchmark. In the meantime they became one of the biggest manufacturer in the world... not bad for the makers of the "people's car"!

Back to models, I said before that I like the fact that Airfix is visibly moving up the quality of their products, and that seems to tell me that their managers think the same I do.

Absolutely, its all relative. Maybe I should rephrase my point: if you have a large and strong market for kits at a certain price point does it make good business sense to junk that and chase the money at the narrowest end of the market with fewer releases that cost more? Sure, you could do it, but then who fills the gap of the larger - non-ethusiast - market? Your competitors? Try telling that to the shareholders!

I think you can have a two-tier approach - cheaper, affordable kits for the mass market end while pitching more specialist products that are not exactly pocket money prices, that way you can have £5 Spitfires and £30 Sea Vixens.

It really depends: in many cases it is worth dropping the lower end market to move up. It's all down to where the management wants to move the brand. If you let the competitors to take over a segment where you believe the profit is not worth the hassle, the shareholders will only be happy ! Of course in Airfix case it would not make sense as they can still exploit a huge backcatalogue. Nobody would suggest this to airfix and nobody did in the past: any criticism at the quality of their product has been made comparing them with similar market segment products. And as I said, no manufacturer really is in a higher end of the market, they are all in the same. Besides, as said above their quality is improving constantly on their more recent models, so someone in airfix is listening, or maybe they just have come to the same conclusions.

I think I've mentioned the pricing differential every time people talk about "greedy Hasegawa" - such is the huge cultural demand for modelling on that island, I was once told by a Japanese kit rep that if the rest of the world stopped buying kits, Japan could still carry on no problem.

Yes you did ! My comment was general as I had seen prices compared in this tread. I might add that the differential start to change just crossing the Channel, as a £30 Sea Vixen in many shops in continental europe becomes a £40 or even £50 kit, so entering in competition with hasegawa kits (that however don't include a Sea Vixen...). And it used to be much worse in the days of the stronger pound sterling: for a while the airfix tomcat costed as much as the new mould hasegawa ones !

And here's a question - biggest kit company in Japan, Tamiya or Hasegawa?

Isn't Bandai bigger than both ?

[pte1643]

Is Airfix's quality questionable? Well, in some instances, especially the older stuff, Yes.

Did most of the forum members here (certainly the UK based ones of, or over, a certain age) start out bodging together their warped, ill fitting kits? Yep, most likely.

This has been said, but the average 8,9,10 yr old don't give a rats ar$e if there's a gap between the wings and the fuselage, or that the tyres are 0.5mm too wide. It's a Spitfire (or Harrier, Tornado etc, for the modern minded kids)

I've just made an Airfix 72nd Red Arrows Hawk with my 10 yr old Daugther. There's fingerprints in paint, decals are wonky and everything, but she loves it. It was the same for me at that age, and I suspect a fair few (if not most) of the members here.

Did it put us off? Of course it didn't, that's why we're all still here.

There's greater threats to the world of modelling, as far as the modern kids are concerned, than a few ill fitting kits that will never turn out like the Mona Lisa anyways.

Edited October 3, 2011 by pte1643

[thx6667]

Not entirely correct: Fiat has shares in Ferrari, but don't own them completely. They own Alfa and Maserati completely, or better they own the brands, as little else remains of the two. And the money that gets back in fiat's pocket thanks to ferrari

But the main point here is that quality products sell even if more expensive. There is a reason why german car manufacturers, who have always valued the quality of the product, are now the most important (and profitable) in the world while those companies that used to follow the idea that the consumer will always buy any crap as long as it's cheap have either gone (BL) or have survived only thanks to generous injections of public money (fiat and renault).

Vokswagen is a grat example of this: started as a manufacturer of cheap cars and moved on to become a benchmark. In the meantime they became one of the biggest manufacturer in the world... not bad for the makers of the "people's car"!

Back to models, I said before that I like the fact that Airfix is visibly moving up the quality of their products, and that seems to tell me that their managers think the same I do.

I don't think anyone is disputing that quality products sell if the right kinds of market conditions are there for them, but taking your car company analogy as an example, if they have a lucrative line in affordable hatchbacks that sell through a wide distribution network, it would make little sense to ditch that and go for the premium market.

The one real big problem with pointing the automotive industry as some kind of comparative example is that, by and large, people need cars - hobbies by comparison are a matter of luxury not necessity and both are governed by wholly different market models (sic).

It really depends: in many cases it is worth dropping the lower end market to move up. It's all down to where the management wants to move the brand. If you let the competitors to take over a segment where you believe the profit is not worth the hassle, the shareholders will only be happy ! Of course in Airfix case it would not make sense as they can still exploit a huge backcatalogue. Nobody would suggest this to airfix and nobody did in the past: any criticism at the quality of their product has been made comparing them with similar market segment products. And as I said, no manufacturer really is in a higher end of the market, they are all in the same. Besides, as said above their quality is improving constantly on their more recent models, so someone in airfix is listening, or maybe they just have come to the same conclusions.

I think we can take improvements in quality as a desirable given. But in moving product "upmarket" and charging more we come back to identifying if there is a large enough market for it in the first place. You rightly pointed out the cost differential between what we pay for a Japanese kit and what the Japanese pay but if Japanese kits could be marketed at Airfix or Revell prices in Europe or the USA, someone would be doing it. I would wager to suggest that the reason why Tamiya and Hasegawa have been able to trade the way they do, taking into mind the business culture in Japan and decades of stable ownership, and become the benchmark of quality is because they are in Japan. Sure you could run any kit company like them, but I would suggest you'd need to be within that Japanese culture and climate to do it on a par with the other domestic kit companies. Yes we can point to Japanese cars and investment abroad but cars are much more part of the infrastructure of economies, both in manufacture and usage, than hobbies are.

And as has been evidenced by the discussions on this board, once it leaves that Japanese bubble, quality yes, but price?

Yes you did ! My comment was general as I had seen prices compared in this tread. I might add that the differential start to change just crossing the Channel, as a £30 Sea Vixen in many shops in continental europe becomes a £40 or even £50 kit, so entering in competition with hasegawa kits (that however don't include a Sea Vixen...). And it used to be much worse in the days of the stronger pound sterling: for a while the airfix tomcat costed as much as the new mould hasegawa ones !

You're absolutely correct, so the logical extension of that is that a high price, - unparalleled quality - product is going to cost even more. Everything will go up in price in parallel. But just as you pointed to the relative price of the internal Japanese price differential, same applies to the UK and Europe where each will have their own core domestic market.

As I said, yes you could run a western kit company along the lines of a Japanese one, yes you could equal that kind of quality - but we cannot escape that unavoidable fact that by following a Japanese model (literally) it will become like any other domestic Japanese product. Great for the Japanese, but everyone outside of the Land of the Rising Sun will mutter about the price when it reaches their shore.

People want Japanese quality kits at western prices - heck who doesn't! Can be that be done? Now that's the 64,000 dollar (or Yen) question.

Isn't Bandai bigger than both ?

Yup - trick question! Bandai is HUGE, what they shift in terms of Gundam is just truly phenomenal.

[PhoenixII]

Ditto

(cept for the beer part cause Poms dont drink proper beer! )

'Ere, watch it!!

when was the last time you necked a PINT (not a nancy schooner!)

[Pete in Lincs]

Oi remember when this were all fields

Ar

Proper fields in them days we 'ad

Ar

Ploughed by 'Orses

Ar

grew Barley we did

Ar

made proper beer it did

Ar

An thems that didn't loike proper beer drank other stuff

Ar

Them were the days...

No, they were bloody hard work!

Build/Buy an easy kit or build/buy an old hard one

It's up to you. It's your wallet, your skill levels

And who else makes some of those old kits anyway?

And the company that goes to the wall first due to lack of sales

is the loser.

Democracy in action.

As for Aussie beer........

Reminds me of the reference to American beer and canoes...Ha Ha

P.S. Anyone else enjoying Mike Grant's builds of old AIRFIX kits in SAMI?

Now, back to your corners until the bell.......Ding! Ding!

[marty_hopkirk]

You've answered your own question there though Giorgio - Fiat also owns Ferrari, Maserati and Alfa Romeo, but Fiat still sells Fiat, they've not repositioned the Fiat brand to sell high performance, high cost cars at the expense of the market that wants affordable hatchbacks which is the point I am making.

For every argument there is a counter and more applicable one. For example, Product Enterprises used to make small affordable replicas of Gerry Anderson craft that were well regarded. Yet they re-branded themselves switching to producing large studio scaled and VERY expensive limited edition replicas that have an indifferent reputation.Yet they continue with this, I suspect the less risk and quick return aspect are driving them.

I think you can have a two-tier approach - cheaper, affordable kits for the mass market end while pitching more specialist products that are not exactly pocket money prices, that way you can have £5 Spitfires and £30 Sea Vixens.

One needs a very clear brand identity to do that and I suspect, Airfix's is confusing at the moment.

Marty...

[venomvixen]

'Ere, watch it!!

when was the last time you necked a PINT (not a nancy schooner!)

Here I am, 5.30 in the am at work struggling

mightily with the office photocopier to copy the

maintenace manual for a FR 4 Firefly to share with my British chums

and what do I get? Abuse and threats!!!!!!

And yus still cant make Beer (but your very good at making lizards wee )

(PS never had a pint, I refuse to drink any thing thats taller than me!)

[thx6667]

For every argument there is a counter and more applicable one. For example, Product Enterprises used to make small affordable replicas of Gerry Anderson craft that were well regarded. Yet they re-branded themselves switching to producing large studio scaled and VERY expensive limited edition replicas that have an indifferent reputation.Yet they continue with this, I suspect the less risk and quick return aspect are driving them.

But that's a very different ecomic model, they are a specialised company doing niche products for a select and discerning audience, it's like comparing Caterham to Ford.

One needs a very clear brand identity to do that and I suspect, Airfix's is confusing at the moment.

Well at the risk of being seen to defend the old girl again I'd say it is pretty clear - both ends of the market would appear to be being served (cheap entry level kits through to more enthusiast oriented subjects), the strongest brand recognition in decades (helped by the James May factor) and, one would presume if investment is any indicator, healthy sales.

One could suggest that perceptions of brand identity tend to be sole preserve of academic discussions on model forums based on individual perception rather than anything substantial, like retail and sales.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Jonathan Mock

[marty_hopkirk]

But that's a very different ecomic model, they are a specialised company doing niche products for a select and discerning audience, it's like comparing Caterham to Ford.

Quite, but why switch from being Ford to being Caterham as PE did?

Well at the risk of being seen to defend the old girl again I'd say it is pretty clear - both ends of the market would appear to be being served (cheap entry level kits through to more enthusiast oriented subjects), the strongest brand recognition in decades (helped by the James May factor) and, one would presume if investment is any indicator, healthy sales.

One could suggest that perceptions of brand identity tend to be sole preserve of academic discussions on model forums based on individual perception rather than anything substantial, like retail and sales.

That's precisely why they need a clear brand identity. Airfix for cheap and cheerful and new imprint for their high end kits as in your car analogy. Or have a strategy, that will take time to realign the whole company?

Marty...

[thx6667]

Quite, but why switch from being Ford to being Caterham as PE did?

With all due respect all PE they never were Ford - fine products yes, but all they really did was reposition themselves within a niche market.

That's precisely why they need a clear brand identity. Airfix for cheap and cheerful and new imprint for their high end kits as in your car analogy. Or have a strategy, that will take time to realign the whole company?

Because..? You've stated it as a need without actually identifying where that need is coming from and why. Its really that simple, identify the requirement why.

[thx6667]

In fact the more you thinks about it, the more you wonder just where this "brand identify confusion" is coming from because one only has to look at Revell's range to see that they have an equally similar split of cheaper models for the entry level - 1/144, their own old tooling (WWI planes), new tooling and Matchbox repops - not to mention pre-painted snap together kits, starter sets etc... - with more enthusiast oriented kits (1/350 Bismarck/Tirpitz, 1/32 Ju 88, Eurofighter, He 111*) at the other end. Sandwiched inbetween is are kits drawn from a variety of manufacturers, some more recent (Hasegawa) some older (ex-Max 1/35 military), resulting in a mix of quality, in fact as I said before about it being a bit of a lottery, one cannot be quite sure what is in the box sometimes. Brand identity confusion?

We've talked about the prices of newer Tamiya and Hasegwa stuff and their quest for excellence, but even they have a two-tier approach, the latter still sells its original raised panel line F-14s and F-4s alongside at the lower end price spectrum while still selling its better, more relatively recent new-tools of the same subjects at the upper end. Ditto their P-51D Mustang, Hasegawa even added new bits to their old Phantom to extent its market life at the bargain end of the range. Tamiya repop some Italeri stuff for the domestic market, some of it not exactly stellar (AV-8B), but it serves a purpose for Tamiya's entry level line. Brand identity confusion?

If there is one kit company I personally can't fathom out right now its Italeri. They seem to have repositioned themselves away from the superb value for money product they used to make to something more premium, which is fine if the product can stand up to it. In many instances its good quality stuff but not for a premium price. £29 for a 1/48 Hurricane? £10 for 40 year old 1/72 ESCI reissues?

So we come back to where this perception of brand identify confusion is coming from.

In order to fix something it has to be not working.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Jonathan Mock

[Jennings Heilig]

Making fewer anything that is more expensive and targets a richer market makes great business sense !!!

Yeah, ask Saab what a great business plan that is

[andrewfl290]

Airfix for me have a brand identity....."Airfix", says it all. I grew up with them and to a lesser extent Frog, I remember Airfix starting to incorperate half decent pilots (in those days). Far better than the Frog rendition.

Anyhow I can't read half the arguments in this thread because they are so far off topic and irrelevant.

Isn't the reality that the Vulcan is an old kit, Airfix nearly disappeared forever and yet they have come back with renewed vision and some superb new kits. It takes time to build back up and yet they have a range that caters for many, even if they are re-releasing old kits.

Surely a not so good Vulcan is better than no Vulcan?

Andrew

Edited October 4, 2011 by andrewfl290

[Giorgio N]

Yeah, ask Saab what a great business plan that is

Saab did well when they moved from their initial cars to the early 900 series, so it was successful for them. The company failed for other reasons, many of them related to some weird decisions of their owner, GM. As I said in another post, to tackle higher end of the market quality is paramount but quality does not only mean building things well, it also means building new things, at least once in a while. With Saab stuck on old models there was little chance of competing with the big german names.

Another example is Jaguar: while they have some very nice products, a mix of lack of innovation and awful quality (for the price) meant that they haven't seen profit in decades, so much that the company had to be sold together with Land Rover otherwise nobody would have bought.

Jonathan, companies move up and downmarket and even close sectors that are profitable continuously and for many reasons (although all leading to more profit). But as I said before, no big plastic modelling company is upmarket anyway, even the most expensive tamiya kit is still very low end compared to other modelling niches. No big company really aims only at the kids or the enthusiasts markets, they all approach both. The same Tamiya that sells some great 1/32 superkits has no problem in selling cheap italery reboxes in japan. So I can't see why airfix can't sell both the series 1 planes and the 1/48 sea Vixens.

People want Japanese quality kits at western prices - heck who doesn't! Can be that be done? Now that's the 64,000 dollar (or Yen) question.

My answer to this is yes ! Revell Germany has done that with several of their kits. The day airfix will achieve the same (and judging from the progress seen on recent moulds there's hope) I'll only be happy. And I'd be happy if others do it, like Italeri or a hopefully reborn Heller. The more good kits around the better for us modellers !!!!

[PhoenixII]

Here I am, 5.30 in the am at work struggling

mightily with the office photocopier to copy the

maintenace manual for a FR 4 Firefly to share with my British chums

and what do I get? Abuse and threats!!!!!!

And yus still cant make Beer (but your very good at making lizards wee )

Ah ha! Think i know what's gone wrong, it's a breakdown in communication.

So, on that premise, from the Oxford English Dictionary,

BEER:- an ALCOHOLIC drink, made from yeast, fermented malt etc. flavoured with hops (as a 'bittering' agent, nettle has been used.)

Storage, racked on a thrawl, scotched and blocked, and allowed to 'stand' for sediment to settle, NEVER refrigerated best served at a temperature between 50 & 55 degrees F. (10 - 13 C)

LAGER:- a KIND of beer. OR, to put it another way, gnats, (Coors et.al. insert 'prefered' brand!) brewed anywhere else other than England!!!!

Served almost freezing (around 2 - 3 degrees C) so NO flavour, 'cos it's SO ruddy

Things in common, both can be refered to as "falling down water" and the person imbibing can become "as nissed as a pewt"! (Anyway, REAL men drink Scrumpy )

(PS never had a pint, I refuse to drink any thing thats taller than me!)

Hey Danni, you can't help being a "short house" could also be the reason that you're "struggling mightily with the office photocopier" get a STEP ladder

This public service broadcast brought to you by The Wurzels.

(Google is your friend!!)

"I drove my tractor through your hay stack last night ( Ooh ar ooh ar) I threw me pitch fork at your dog to keep quiet (Ooh ar ooh........................................................."

[John]

My 12-year-old's latest builds (unpainted) are the Airfix Freedom Fighter - because it's "cool" and Hasegawa 1/76 Grant tank (also unpainted)- because it goes with his 8th Army and Afrika Korps figures (all unpainted). His most recent purchase was an Airfix Panzer IV, for the same reason as the Grant.

You would think that, with me for a dad, he would be more discerning! As far as he's concerned though, kits are either for building and festooning his bedroom, or building and doing battle with his soldiers. Painting is an inconvinience and just takes too long.

John

[Alan P]

The more good kits around the better for us modellers !!!!

yeah but what about people who get their fun crucifying kits and pointing out inaccuracies without actually building anything? Who's thinking about them in this quest for perfection?

In fact... are they actually modellers? Discuss!