Jaguar Tempest Kit

[Spitfires Forever]

I just purchased the Eduard Tempest V kit and could't help but notice the obvious shortness of the fuselage. Rumor is that Eduard is considering re-tooling down the line but who knows if it will ever happen. I found the Jaguar site and was happy to see that Mr. Southerland was involved with this project. Has anyone used this kit on a Tempest yet? It seems like a relatively easy application but is it worth the money?

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Troy Smith]

I just purchased the Eduard Tempest V kit and could't help but notice the obvious shortness of the fuselage. Rumor is that Eduard is considering re-tooling down the line but who knows if it will ever happen. I found the Jaguar site and was happy to see that Mr. Southerland was involved with this project. Has anyone used this kit on a Tempest yet? It seems like a relatively easy application but is it worth the money?
Any input will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

In short. yes. I have done the extension, and cut off the rudder. It's very neat.
YOu do also get a very good cockpit, exhaust pies and very good wheels. The new Tempest boxing I think has a pretty good cockpit. 'Spitfire Addict', you are based in the US? Probaly cheaper to get the Jagaur kit for you

For folks in the UK and Europe, look for the A2zee correcting set, see here.

http://www.a2zeemodels.co.uk/hawker-tempest-tail-set-1-p.asp

If you use the Jaguar set you will need to thin down the fin, it's quite easy to do......here's a post I did earlier.

As for Eduard Tempest, and they should have looked at EJ693 and this shot.....

http://www.hawkertempest.se/album/ej693/iwebalbumfiles/1aacb726610943df95f7070453114fc6.jpg

certainly I used it for a guide to remodelling the fin....

for anyone who is going to do the kit, the trick is the fin fillet is essentially triangular in section, narrow at the front and the base of the triangle at full fin width, the first vertical panel line of the fin, with flat sides, shown well above where fin meets fuselage.
The fillet was added to the earlier typhoon like tail, and is very simple. But the above is the best shot I found showing this.

Don't forget to add plastic card backing inside the fin before you start thinning, I used 30 thou on each side. a
I have not gone through the kit plastic but it's pretty thin now!

The old 1/72 Heller kit catches this detail well.

Also, look at the Tempest site, in particular the walkrounds page here http://www.hawkertempest.se/WalkArounds.htm

HTH
T Edited March 14, 2014 by Troy Smith

[Spitfires Forever]

Yes, I am a California surfer (with a Blackpuddlian dad) who has been addicted to plastic modeling since I built my first UPC 144th scale Spitfire at the tender age of 6 years old. Jaguar is just 20 miles from my home, and yes the kit is less than half the price you would be paying across Tje pond, yet you folks have lots of great aftermarket parts that would be out of my price range in most cases. Thank you for your input. Do I need to rescribe the panel lines along the fuselage additions? Some additions are a bit dicey (The DACO Mk XIV modification is no terribly easy) but others are so well designed that they are easy to work with. I have found that Roy's kits are very well thought out, he must be an engineer. I am curious about the MkV at Hendon. Was it flyable or static? I feel confident in purchasing the kit and look forward to making this very powerful fighter. Thanks for your time Troy.

Cheers

[Troy Smith]

Yes, I am a California surfer (with a Blackpuddlian dad) who has been addicted to plastic modeling since I built my first UPC 144th scale Spitfire at the tender age of 6 years old. Jaguar is just 20 miles from my home, and yes the kit is less than half the price you would be paying across Tje pond, yet you folks have lots of great aftermarket parts that would be out of my price range in most cases.

Ah, California....given the fact it's grey skies and 45 degree rain here right now I'm jealous!

well, the answer is to get a trade buddy and swap. You'll still have post to pay but if you do rather than a company it's often cheaper.

Also bear in mind you can ask place in the UK/Europe to not charge you VAT (value Added Tax, currently at 20%) which would help!! Some places will do this for you.

Thank you for your input. Do I need to rescribe the panel lines along the fuselage additions? Some additions are a bit dicey

Yes, you do, but it's only a little bit, getting the insert to blend in is more ticky, i used superglue, and then mr surfacer.

It's one of those one that you really want to take you time doing, and check and scrape the resin insert edges and test fit until you are happy before you even look at the glue

(The DACO Mk XIV modification is no terribly easy) but others are so well designed that they are easy to work with. I have found that Roy's kits are very well thought out, he must be an engineer.

I have read various things about Roy, he worked on special effects in movies, and says that he has a very good eye for shapes. he's got a blog, worth a read, and also does barracudacals.

He designed the Cooper Details est which are sadly out of production at the moment.

he also did the 21st Century series of 1/32nd pre assembled kits that were about a few years ago.

I am curious about the MkV at Hendon. Was it flyable or static?

Static!! No flying Tempests anywhere. IIRC somewhere on the Tempest site I linked you too there is something abut Nick Grace wanting a flying Tempest, but the problem was getting a working reliable Sabre.

I feel confident in purchasing the kit and look forward to making this very powerful fighter. Thanks for your time Troy.

Cheers

My pleasure. When i get chance I am going to upload some pics of additions and modifications to the Eduard kit.... Plenty to do but worth the effort.

cheers

T

[Spitfires Forever]

Thanks for the input mate. It is about 75 degrees and sunny over here. Unfortunately the big swell from New Zealand petered out, but we did get some 20ft waves! Should you ever come to visit You can have a free surf lesson and I will give you a tour of the Planes of Fame museum in Chino. What type of Mr. surfacer would you suggest? I have been using Testors putty for years and have heard the praises of Mr. Surfacer but every time I try to buy it the product is sold out.

cheers

[Edgar]

Static!! No flying Tempests anywhere. IIRC somewhere on the Tempest site I linked you too there is something abut Nick Grace wanting a flying Tempest, but the problem was getting a working reliable Sabre.

The Mk.V, a mile from here, is being rebuilt to flying condition for Kermit Weekes, but it's very unlikely to fly here, first. Still, at some stage you should see one flying in Florida (lucky ***********)

Edgar

[Chuck1945]

Thanks for the input mate. It is about 75 degrees and sunny over here. Unfortunately the big swell from New Zealand petered out, but we did get some 20ft waves! Should you ever come to visit You can have a free surf lesson and I will give you a tour of the Planes of Fame museum in Chino. What type of Mr. surfacer would you suggest? I have been using Testors putty for years and have heard the praises of Mr. Surfacer but every time I try to buy it the product is sold out.

cheers

Currently 91 here in Eastern WA, at least that is what my bike computer was telling me as I was pedalling up my hill.

As for Mr Surfacer, there are three flavors, 500, 1000, and 1200. 500 is the thickest, 1200 is the thinnest. I use 500 and 1000; 500 will fill panel lines and narrow cracks, 1000 is almost paint-like and works quite well on scratches. Some people thin Mr Surfacer and spray it as a primer. You can apply Mr Surfacer with a brush (500 is somewhat similar to gap filling super glue as far as consistency is concerned), lacquer thinner is needed to clean your brush afterwards. 500 will shrink when it dries.

[Troy Smith]

Thanks for the input mate. It is about 75 degrees and sunny over here. Unfortunately the big swell from New Zealand petered out, but we did get some 20ft waves! Should you ever come to visit You can have a free surf lesson and I will give you a tour of the Planes of Fame museum in Chino. What type of Mr. surfacer would you suggest? I have been using Testors putty for years and have heard the praises of Mr. Surfacer but every time I try to buy it the product is sold out.

cheers

Thanks for the offer! Not been in CA for 21 years.

I see Chuck has replied about Mr Surfacer, i only have the 500 grade, I did most of the inital filling with superglue. Nothing special, i get mine from the pound shop, cheap, like 10 tubes for a pound. I presume you get a dollar store where you will get 5 or 10 little tubes for a buck? That should work fine.

You must be able to get mr Surfacer near you, Tom Cleaver who writes on Modelling Madenness is in LA I think and he uses it all the time. If not I'm sure you could get it mail order from somewhere in the US.

It's probably harder to get in the UK due to EU legislation on solvents....it has a very strong smell and will make your head spin if you don't open the window! Great stuff though.

one thing i forgot about the Jaguar set, has very good replacement radiator as well.

I got mine in with a Tempest kit i got from the US last year, before Eduard re-issued it. As I plan on doing a few i cloned some bits for myself.

The other thing about the Eduard kit, it has a thick wing, just under 1/8 th inch too thick (in the real world 5 inches, which would be 5/48ths on the model) from memory, I though this would invlove some major surgery, moving the wing roots and such like, but I found by taking about 1/16 off the front edge, and A LOT of thinning of the trailing edges (like an hour of scraping and sanding! Do the tailplanes while your at it!) , plus making a 1/16th notch in the 'spar' at the front of the lower wing, you got a thinner wing and no major surgery.... I will upload relevant pics when I get chance. (dull stuff about not being above to transfer pics camera to this computer etc etc)

It's not difficult, just a bit boring! scrape-sand-test fit and repeat until desired result obtained....like i said, at least an hour.

there are a load of other little tweaks and refinements that will get documented.

For wheel well detail, look at the LA607 walkround, here http://www.hawkertempest.se/album/la607, the ones at Hendon look a bit bare.

A flying Mk V.... now that would be a sight and sound to behold!!!

Cheers

T

[Spitfires Forever]

Sanding and scraping...sounds fun. Is the Tamiya polishing compound worth using? Half of Tamiya's best modeling supplies can't get into the US thanks to the EPA. As a side note, the resin and foam we use for surfboards have been drastically weakened because of the hardeners that have been taken out. On the modeling side, oil based enamels (Model Master and other enamels) have had the preservatives removed, which means that once you open a new bottle you got about three months to use it before it dries out. Ahh, big government (I think Orwell was trying to tell us something) they are always creating a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. I also heard that the fin fillet is incorrect? I think that if a model company ever made the perfect model that I would keel over. Well thanks again, and as my Uncle Frank(who fought Jerry in the trenches) would say" eee by guum" and then tell me I was a"daft bugger" probably because I wouldn't quit bugging him about what it was like to watch the Battle of Britain in his back yard!

Cheers to you and Chuck

[Troy Smith]

Sanding and scraping...sounds fun. Is the Tamiya polishing compound worth using?

is anything used to polish surfboards during manufacture, like fine grades of abrasive? try those on some scrap....you could start a new source of modelling supplies...

I used a 3 grade fingernail buffer bought from the drug store which polished the plastic and resin and mr surfacer fine.

I also heard that the fin fillet is incorrect?

It is. Too thick. I refer you to my initial post, #2, up the page, with a pic of the real thing which discusses this.

cheers

T

Edited September 7, 2011 by Troy Smith

[Arachnid]

is anything used to polish surfboards during manufacture, like fine grades of abrasive? try those on some scrap....you could start a new source of modelling supplies...

I used a 3 grade fingernail buffer bought from the drug store which polished the plastic and resin and mr surfacer fine.

It is. Too thick. I refer you to my initial post, #2, up the page, with a pic of the real thing which discusses this.

cheers

T

Troy,(Wrong place I know)

Special Hobby Roc

Payment received,thank you, can I have a posting address?

Cheers

Terry

[Spitfires Forever]

I have various types of polish but have found Cymbal polish to work exceptionally well in rubbing out tiny scratches and producing a nice sheen on my surfboards, so why not give it a whack, it couldn't hurt? I thought you were talking about sanding the main planes, but I will try to take down the fin a little, I just don't like rescribing. Oh yeah, I found a Classic Airframes Hudson at a rummage sale for 40.00. Last one I saw on EBay went for 160.00. I am not thrilled about the 15 windows and the nose section that I will have to tape off. Oh well. If you need some Hudson decals let me know, I got three different sets in the kit and can't use them all.

Cheers

[Troy Smith]

I have various types of polish but have found Cymbal polish to work exceptionally well in rubbing out tiny scratches and producing a nice sheen on my surfboards, so why not give it a whack, it couldn't hurt?

test it on something scrap first...just in case!

I thought you were talking about sanding the main planes, but I will try to take down the fin a little, I just don't like rescribing. ,

I am the fin, tailplanes and main wings all need thinning.

The fin needs doing on the outside, but if you deepen any panel lines at front first minimal rescribing, more reinstating than rescribing.

You need to scribe in panel lines in the resin extensions too, but this really is not hard, they run straight down the fuselage, not around it.

The wing and taiplanes you thin on the inside. The reduction in wing thickness, the Tempest has a basically flat wing centre section, and some dihedral on the outer panels, you thin the wing up to the dihedral change.

you remove a thin triangular wedge from each wing surface, the base being 1/16th inch at root end, tapering to nothing to the dihedral change.

It's worth thinning the wing a little on the outer panle, but really not much.

But, The biggest visual impact is made by doing the fin. Dig the kit out, tape it togther, and have a look at the walkround pics, it will make much more sense. But I posted the front of the fin shot above.

I'll try to post some pics, need to find the memory card that they are on....

cheers

T

[grahamf]

The Mk.V, a mile from here, is being rebuilt to flying condition for Kermit Weekes, but it's very unlikely to fly here, first. Still, at some stage you should see one flying in Florida (lucky ***********)

Edgar

It will never fly unfortunately, the airframe is being restored to airworthy condition [ although looking at the top of the fuselage from that photo Im not so sure?]

The rest of the aircraft that is being put back on is to static condition.

It would take a million/ million and a half pounds to get the engine running apparently.

Graham

[Spitfires Forever]

Thanks Troy, that makes more sense to me now. Sanding the inside was not a thought until you mentioned it. This does not sound quite as daunting as it did at first. I will do the best I can. Thanks again for your patience, it is currently 90 degrees here and we who live close to the beach get to fry like the inlanders for a few days.

Cheers,

Randy

[cynicaljohnny]

It will never fly unfortunately, the airframe is being restored to airworthy condition [ although looking at the top of the fuselage from that photo Im not so sure?]

The rest of the aircraft that is being put back on is to static condition.

It would take a million/ million and a half pounds to get the engine running apparently.

Graham

Plus running reliably, and finding a mechanic that knows anything about servicing/maintaining a Napier Sabre is problematic....

Edited September 8, 2011 by cynicaljohnny

[Work In Progress]

Plus running reliably, and finding a mechanic that knows anything about servicing/maintaining a Napier Sabre is problematic....

Indeed. The staggering complexity, poor in-service operating record, and absence of any significant post-war operating history for the engine more or less make the Sabre a non-starter (sorry about the pun).

Amongst the big, high powered engines used in warbirds and Reno racers, the Merlin, the Griffon, the Centaurus, the R-1340, R-1830, R-2600, R-2800, R-3350 and R-4360 have all benefited immensely from extensive post-war development and maintenance experience gained in military and civilian transport / airline experience. All this expertise is available to warbird operators today and it is one reason why engine failures in flight are relatively rare on such types, when in WW2 service they often had very short service lives before failing or having to be changed.

There are people at RR who will tell you that they didn't realise how little they knew about the Merlin until they had to develop the 500 series as a reliable civilian transport engine!

Edited September 8, 2011 by Work In Progress

[Work In Progress]

is anything used to polish surfboards during manufacture, like fine grades of abrasive? t

Since you ask:

http://www.theshapingshack.com/categories/...haping-Supplies

Looks like conventional enough stuff, but a ready means of getting ready supply in the finer grades. And makes a change from hanging around car body shop suppliers: Pages 3 and 6 look like the main zones of interest for our purposes.

[Troy Smith]

Hi Randy

A picture is worth a 1000 words. I took some specific before and after pics for you. [and everyone else]

The grey kit is the modified one, the light grey is a stock kit.

The biggest visual impact is made by doing the fin.
The fin needs doing on the outside, but if you deepen any panel lines at front first minimal rescribing, more reinstating than rescribing. the reshaped fin needs more work, but the basic shape is there.

 

S7303710 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

S7303735 by losethekibble, on Flickr

The reduction in wing thickness, the Tempest has a basically flat wing centre section, and some dihedral on the outer panels, you thin the wing up to the dihedral change.
you remove a thin triangular wedge from each wing surface, the base being 1/16th inch at root end, tapering to nothing to the dihedral change.
The crudely marked black section is the part removed, and you should be able to see the notches in the 'spar' There is black blob to show where as well.
This allows the thinner wing to still fit the existing wing roots. The rear needs thinning down too, see pics below.

It's worth thinning the wing a little on the outer panel as well, but carefully. You can just see the top part is a little thinner, look at the cannnon apertures.

 

S7303714 by losethekibble, on Flickr

this pic you can see better the difference in thickness if you look at the curve of wing.

One other point,if you look carefully at the upper wing on the right without black marker, you can just make out the 'flat' at the wing leading edge, as this is basically what you need to remove at the root. More noticable when looking at the kit.

 

S7303724 by losethekibble, on Flickr

you also need to thin the trailing edges and the rear fuselage join, on the wings and fuselage. This was hard to get a decent pic of.

S7303718 by losethekibble, on Flickr



Done carefully the wing is thinner, and all still fits, no having to cut away the wing roots or any other such surgery. The trailing edge has been thinned down a lot as well.

 

S7303716 by losethekibble, on Flickr


You can see the resin fuselage extension here, the light grey is Mr Surfacer, and the black bits are just marker pen from marking out where to cut.


there are a lot of little tweaks as well, like thinning the edges of UC well, and thinning the longer shell ejection slots, as well as drilling them out for example. Just about visible here.

 

S7303722 by losethekibble, on Flickr



Very much work in progress. more pics as and when I get chance. Hope of use.

Cheers
T

Edited July 29, 2017 by Troy Smith
photobucket reups

[Work In Progress]

Troy

This is good stuff. the wing thinning exercise is very interesting. It seems geometrically inescapable that thinning the wing at the root is going to cause a fit problem vis a vis either the root fairing, or the lower belly line (or both) - yet you seem to be not finding that... I am confused. Any thoughts?

[Troy Smith]

Work In Progress said:

Troy

This is good stuff. the wing thinning exercise is very interesting. It seems geometrically inescapable that thinning the wing at the root is going to cause a fit problem vis a vis either the root fairing, or the lower belly line (or both) - yet you seem to be not finding that... I am confused. Any thoughts?

Hmm, without more pics, which I can't take as kits are a mile away, and i can't easily upload pictures there......

but, no, it does not cause a problem, this is what the spar notches do, they allow the lower wing to sit that bit higher up.

The lower wing is one piece remember, including the lower belly line, the break is at the rear of the radiator [see below]

I have this not very clear shot, but the top kit has been modified they way I describe.

 

S7303705 by losethekibble, on Flickr

The only funny bit is where the wing joins to the radiator, but the way the kit works, the join is 'flexible' if that makes sense, as the top of the radiator to lower wing can also be adjusted. You might need to file the lower leading edge of the fuselage wing root a bit as well, but this is maybe 2 mm long.

here's a shot of the fuselage with the extensions, but note how short that lower front root is.

I have not noticed the need to adjust it though. The important join is the upper wing to fuselage, and I'll be adding card strips to the underside of this.

Also the rear join on the fusleage and wing has been thinned.

S7303515 by losethekibble, on Flickr

You can also see why you need to back the fin extension with plasticard before thinning, you can see the card showing through.

You make a good point, but this does work as far as all my test fitting and dry runs can show. Any change in 'sit' would be a tweak in the UC legs mounting........ or have I missed something vital?

Do you have one of the kits to examine? Might make more sense if you do.

So, more pics of this when i get chance.

cheers

T

Edited July 29, 2017 by Troy Smith
photobucket reups

[Work In Progress]

I have a few knocking about from the initial release but they are all 200 miles away at the moment. Thanks for the additional info - I will give it a try one one of my unbuilt ones in due course,

[Spitfires Forever]

Hello Troy,

My kit arrived today, an early release of the MkV with Closterman's markings. The cockpit is less detailed than I was hoping so I figure the Jaguar kit would be a really good investment. Although not as scary looking thickness-wise in comparison to the Airfix Seafire and Mk XVI Spitfire kits (those wings could compete with the Typhoon for thickest wings on a fighter aircraft) combined with the short fuselage the wings thickness is accentuated so must be dealt with. Your pics are very helpful, so I will start on this project once the Jag kit arrives.

Cheers

[Troy Smith]

Work In Progress said:

Troy

This is good stuff. the wing thinning exercise is very interesting. It seems geometrically inescapable that thinning the wing at the root is going to cause a fit problem vis a vis either the root fairing, or the lower belly line (or both) - yet you seem to be not finding that... I am confused. Any thoughts?

hi

some more pics. Here it is thinned down as I described. It all still fits.

Black shaded area are thinned down. this is just taped and held togther, joints will be tighter when glued, and will need some filler round the rear where the resin extension is.

S7303756 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

 

S7303755 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

here you can see also the ejector chutes inside the wing, and some part done work thinning the wheel well edge, and new mouting strips. The upper wing was thinned in the same places as well...forgot to shade it doh! You can just make this out on the pic.

S7303757 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

 

 

S7303758 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

S7303759 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

 

A little step between wing and rear of radiator, but I think this is because i was thinning the rear of the radiator housing without reference to the wing root.

 

S7303760 by losethekibble, on Flickr

here you see the chamfered edge to the radiator as well.

 

S7303761 by losethekibble, on Flickr

drilled out and narrowed ejection slots, and the new wing light, the Tempest has a double light behind a clear cover here, look at the Tempest site walk rounds of the V at Hendon, as it's suspended this can be seen well. made with the blunt end of a 3mm drill plunged into heated clear sheet. Also have deepened the flap and aileron lines.

 

S7303762 by losethekibble, on Flickr

the 10 thou plastic strips visible are for the fuselage to sit on.

 

S7303764 by losethekibble, on Flickr

And I can't set my camera date properly!

cheers

T

Edited July 29, 2017 by Troy Smith
photobucket reups