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RAF Late War Camoflage


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Mates, sorry to post this topic - I'm sure it's been posted many times before. But here goes...

I'm working on three fighters right now, Spit Mk. VB, Hurri Mk IIB, and Mustang III. All will be in Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey. I'm in the States, and have access to all the brands of paint made by Testors (ModelMaster, PollyScale, Floquil), my own huge stash of Gunze Aqueous, and Tamiya. Unfortunately I don't have a LHS that sells Xtracolor or WEM.

Since ModelMaster makes these colours directly, I bought them and used 2058 Medium Sea Gray on the underside of the Hurri. Hmmm...has a very distinct blue-green tint, which surprised me as most of the pictures I've seen (both models and restored aircraft) don't seem to have that tint. Undaunted, I sprayed 2057 Ocean Gray topside, and all I can say is...well, I can't say anything it's just awful. Very dark and VERY blue-green. Again, I'm not used to seeing this on models or planes. I then shot ModelMaster 2060 Dark Green and it doesn't look too bad, although darker than scale effect would dictate.

Time to research...and of course, there are all sorts of contradictory recommendations out there. IPMS Stockholm gave FS numbers for the RAF colors, so I figured I's give that a shot. Their first alternate recommendation for RAF Ocean Grey was FS 36176. Hey, I got that one in ModelMaster guise. I shot it over the yucky Ocean Grey and it looked really nice to me. (I would have tried my Gunze colors over the ModelMaster, but strange things sometimes happen when acrylics go over enamels.) IMPS Stockholm recommended FS 36270 as a match for RAF Medium Sea Grey, so I shot that on the underside. I like it, looks like I remember it should look. IPMS Stockholm says that FS 34079 is the best match for RAF Dark Green. However, my only enamel FS 34079 is also from ModelMaster and it looks much too green. Too green for RAF, and most definitely too green for US Southeast Asia camo where it's also used - the best I've seen for that is Gunze). So I figured I would just lighten that up a bit, until I had something I liked. Unless...

...the experts at Britmodeller can recommend some other solutions. Or, if I'm nuts, and the ModelMaster Ocean Grey and Medium Sea Grey are correct, feel free to let me know! If the best solutions are with a paint brand that I'll need to mail-order from Europe, that's OK, as long as it's legal. Sometimes the shops don't like to send paint overseas.

Cheers,

Bill (challenged yet again)

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Hi Bill

I use Xtracolor but as you cannot get them I think you should try with the Gunze Acqueo range like many people around here. Have a look on Redboost's many kits in the "ready for inspection" forum.

Patrick

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Good suggestions. My problem is that I've already shot the enamel on the Hurri, and I've had both Gunze and Tamiya crack after being sprayed on top of enamel. Why? Beats me. I suppose I could remove the enamel...let me think about that.

Regarding Gunze Aqueous: They do not make Ocean Grey - only their Mr. Color Line has that. I'll take your advice, though, and send a PM to Libor. Thanks!

Cheers,
Bill

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Bill,

try Roll Models for Xtracolour paints. that's who I use on the west side o' the Altantic. They may take some time for orders from Hannants (?), but it beats a $100 order direct from Hannants just to get your Brit paint.

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NB Hannants have currently, for a limited period, reduced their minimum order threshold for overseas customers. From their Hot News for 19 August:

"Message for our Overseas customers! We have TEMPORARILY reduced the minimum order for kits etc to £19.98. This is the lowest it has been since 1994! Get your order in to us before it is put back to the normal minimum. Minimum for decals/etched/books etc is still only £4.98! This also applies to Backorders...."

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Good suggestions. My problem is that I've already shot the enamel on the Hurri, and I've had both Gunze and Tamiya crack after being sprayed on top of enamel. Why? Beats me. I suppose I could remove the enamel...let me think about that.

Regarding Gunze Aqueous: They do not make Ocean Grey - only their Mr. Color Line has that. I'll take your advice, though, and send a PM to Lidor. Thanks!

Cheers,

Bill

I've found waiting a good week in a cool dry place (my basement) for the enamel to fully cure solves any cracking problems. (The model waits, not me.) The cracking results from the undercoat not being fully cured before the next coat is applied. It can shrink a bit (doesn't take much) as it cures. I've had this happen when applying ANY paint too thick and then applying another color on top before the lower layer is fully cured.

To your dilemma...I personally dislike the MM RAF colors. They never quite looked right to me; OG looks too blue, DG is passable, but as you say seems too green; MSG seems too dark and too blue as well. I've long since switched to Humbrol for enamel and Tamiya for acrylic. Once my enamels are gone I'll stick with Tamiya's acrylics. My "local" hobby shop is actually a 4 hour round trip, which I make about once every 3-4 months, but they carry both Humbrol and Tamiya as well as most of the MM line so I stock up when there.

Below is a cross-reference/mix using MM I downloaded from a list server back in the early 1990's that I tried back then and I remember I liked them at the time when I was blissfully ignorant. It was before all these forums were available which made me so frustratingly "smart"...it has all the RAF/FAA colors but I haven't used this list in nearly 20 years and don't remember the source. User beware as they say.

Dark Green: MM FS34079 (Dark Green) is an almost perfect match.

Medium Sea Grey: MM FS36375 (Light Ghost Grey) is almost a perfect match.

Ocean Grey: Remove one large pipette of paint from a bottle of MM FS36231 (Dark Gull Grey) and add two large pipettes of MM FS35164 (Intermediate Blue).

Tim

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Thanks everyone. The experts agree on one thing - the ModelMaster colors are way off. After perusing all the resources on the web that I could find, this seems to be the consensus for Gunze Aqueous (without mixing):

Dark Green: H309 (FS34079)

Ocean Grey: H335 (BS381C/637)

Med. Sea Grey: H308 (FS36375)

So, I've taken Tim's advice, and the Hurri will wait for at least a week to make sure everything is fully cured. I've started working on the Spit using the colors above from my Gunze stock. (I used to be a dealer for Gunze and I've got a ton of it. Even when the bottles are 20 years old, the paint is still in good shape. This explains my reluctance sometimes to go and buy more paint!)

Initial verdict is that the Gunze "matches" look pretty good. Once I get it finished, I will post a picture on my WIP thread.

Tim - if the list that you downloaded also has cross-references for the FAA Temperate Sea scheme (I think that's what it's called. I'm still in the blissfully ignorant stage about these subjects) could you also pass that along? Thanks!

Cheers,

Bill

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Did you buy RAF DG or the 24079 regular stock dark green that Testors sells? I haven't had any problems with the RAF colors. Testers makesRAF specific colors, and I have not had any problems with them at all. If you go on the website look for international colors, there you will find RAF Dk Gr and the other colors you will need for WWI and later aircraft.

Cheers

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Did you buy RAF DG or the 24079 regular stock dark green that Testors sells? I haven't had any problems with the RAF colors. Testers makesRAF specific colors, and I have not had any problems with them at all. If you go on the website look for international colors, there you will find RAF Dk Gr and the other colors you will need for WWI and later aircraft.
Cheers

I bought ModelMaster 2057 RAF Ocean Grey, 2060 RAF Dark Green, and 2058 RAF Medium Sea Grey. These are in their category "International Military & Figure/UK and US WWII". As I mentioned in my first post, these colors, in my opinion as a complete neophyte to RAF colorology, are not close to any photos of models or the real aircraft that I have seen. The green is too dark, almost a black-green, the Ocean Grey was too dark and way too green, and the medium sea grey was also too green. For sure, scale effect dictates that these things should be lightened up a bit, but that won't get rid of the green tint to the greys. Maybe this is just a personal preference thing, and maybe their colors are spot-on. But at the end of the day, I don't like how they look. And I really don't want to mix paint, I'm too lazy!

IPMS Stockholm (Urban's Color Charts) provide equivalent FS number for these three colors. They are FS34079 for RAF Dark Green, FS36152 for Ocean Grey, and FS36270 for Medium Sea Grey. Multiple sources on my web searches show FS36118 for Ocean Grey, and FS36440 or FS36375 for Medium Sea Grey. Interestingly enough, Urban provides no Testors matches for these colors. He may not have had access to them. I asked Libor (Redboost) what he uses, since I was informed that he uses a lot of Gunze paints like me, and he uses their RAF Dark Green lightened up a little, and their FS36118 and FS26440. I think his models look very good.

Next up is to get the colors from Tamiya, as someone suggested, and see how they look.

Cheers,
Bill

PS. Based on web searches, this particular topic is a popular one with lots of different answers! It's going to get worse when I start building my Mustang III, as my references show that the US manufacturer painted them with their equivalents of the British colors. And there are some really big debates about what those colors were!
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Bill,

Here's the entire list of colors and mixes using Model Master. Again, this is about 20 years old so lots of caveats apply.

Extra Dark Sea Grey: Add one small pipette on MM FS37038 (Flat Black) to a bottle of MM FS36118 (Gunship Grey).

Dark Sea Grey: Remove one large pipette of paint from a bottle of MM FS36118 (Gunship Grey) and add two large pipettes of MM FS37875 (Flat White).

Dark Slate Grey: Add one large pipette of MM FS37038 (Flat Black) to a bottle of MM FS34159 (SAC Bomber Green).

Light Slate Grey: Add one large pipette of MM FS37875 (Flat White) to a bottle of MM FS34159 (SAC Bomber Green).

Sky Grey: Add one small pipette of MM FS37038 (flat black) to a bottle of MM FS36495 (Light Grey) Sky Type 'S': Add one large pipette of MM FS34227 (Pale Green) to a bottle of MM FS36622 (Camouflage Grey). I personally feel the references are wrong (they ALL disagree!) and that Sky is about half way between FS34554 and FS34424.

Dark Earth: Add two small pipettes of MM FS37875 (Flat White) and one small pipette of MM FS31136 (Insignia Red), to a bottle of MM FS30118 (Field Drab).

Dark Green: MM FS34079 (Dark Green) is an almost perfect match.

Medium Sea Grey: MM FS36375 (Light Ghost Grey) is almost a perfect match.

Ocean Grey: Remove one large pipette of paint from a bottle of MM FS36231 (Dark Gull Grey) and add two large pipettes of MM FS35164 (Intermediate Blue).

Mid Stone: You will need a mixing bottle for this. Start with four large pipettes of MM FS33538 (Insignia Yellow), add two large pipettes of MM FS37875 (Flat White) and two large pipettes of MM FS30219 (Dark Tan).

Azure Blue: Another mixing bottle is needed here. Start with four large pipettes of MM FS37875 (Flat White) and add three large pipettes of Testors #1162 (Sky Blue). Lastly, add one small pipette plus two drops of MM FS31136 (Insignia Red).

Light Mediterranean Blue: A mixing bottle is required for this as well. Start with one large pipette of MM FS35164 (Intermediate Blue), add one large pipette of MM FS35044 (Insignia Blue), two large pipettes plus one small pipette of MM FS37875 (Flat White), and six drops of MM FS31136 (Insignia Red).

FEDERAL STANDARD

Color FS#

Dark Slate Grey 34096

Light Slate Grey (counter shading color) 34159

Extra Dark Sea Grey 36099

Dark Sea Gray (counter shading color) 36118

Sky Grey (Pre/Early War) 36463

Sky 34424

Roundel Red 31350

Identification Yellow 33538

Identification Blue (Dull) 35044

Identification Red (Dull) 30109

Medium Sea Grey 36270

Light Green (Pre/Early War) 34102

Dark Green (Pre/Early War) 34079

Grey-Green Primer(Cockpits) 34226

Identification White 37778

Identification Green 34187

Tim

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Thanks Tim! Reference material like this is good even if its out of date, and always good to refer to. Where else would I find a recipe for Light Mediterranean Blue?

Who knows what the real answer is to any of these questions about the color? Just looking at three brands of RAF colors (Tamiya, Testors, and Gunze) and they are all different. In some cases, quite a bit different. But that's OK too, as I now have choices for shading and other weathering tricks. As long as the paints are compatible with each other...

Cheers,

Bill

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Hi, all,

Medium Sea Grey matched to FS 36375?? First time I hear that! IMHO is completely incorrect; MSG is much darker and "neutral" than 36375 which is a pale blue gray not unlike RLM76; if anything, MSG is much like FS36270 or even like 36440 (itself derived from ANA 602 with which MSG was "substituted"), though IMHO is rather paler.

Fernando

Edited by Fernando
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Hi, all,

Medium Sea Grey matched to FS 36375?? First time I hear that! IMHO is completely incorrect; MSG is much darker and "neutral" than 36375 which is a pale blue gray not unlike RLM76; if anything, MSG is much like FS36270 or even like 36440 (itself derived from ANA 602 with which MSG was "substituted"), though IMHO is rather paler.

Fernando

If a colour is like FS 36270, then it can hardly be like FS 36440, the two are very different. It is however true that many references have suggested the latter FS colour to reproduce medium sea grey.

The most commonly given match for medium sea grey is FS 36270, that I believe lacks that hint of blue that the RAF paint has. Said that, I've used paints matched to 36270 on some models to reproduce medium sea grey and they looked ok.

Today my favourite paint for this colour is Lifecolour in acrylic form or Humbrol's 165 in enamel.

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"Who knows what the real answer is?" Well, you could try looking at the printed colour charts that are available. Or, at the far extreme, buy a copy of the British Standards! However, before that, I suggest that British paint sources (WEM. Xtracolour, Precision) are more likely to be close than Japanese ones - though that isn't 100% reliable!

try this

http://www.e-paint.co.uk/BS381%20Colourcha...e=&pFinish=

although with all due warnings about reproduction on monitors etc, the real MSG does seem bluer than that to me.

WEM actually do a Light Mediterranean Blue, but Humbrol's Azure Blue is about right for LMB - if too dark for Azure Blue.

Edited by Graham Boak
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Who knows what the real answer is? Well, you could try looking at the printed colour charts that are available. Or, at the far extreme, buy a copy of the British Standards! However, before that, I suggest that British paint sources (WEM. Xtracolour, Precision) are more likely to be close than Japanese ones - though that isn't 100% reliable!

try this

http://www.e-paint.co.uk/BS381%20Colourcha...e=&pFinish=

although with all due warnings about reproduction on monitors etc, the real MSG does seem bluer than that to me.

Hi, Graham,

Doing all the operations you suggest, to the extent possible (no copies of BSs around here), and even painting a coat of WEMM and Xtracolour renditions of FS36375 and MSG, it looks an improbable match. FS36270 is a bit more credible. Oh, might it have been a bit of the celebrated British irony in yours!

FErnando

PD: BTW, useful link of yours!

Edited by Fernando
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If a colour is like FS 36270, then it can hardly be like FS 36440, the two are very different. It is however true that many references have suggested the latter FS colour to reproduce medium sea grey.

Giorgio,

True, and in that sense I included it. It is also a bit puzzling that ANA Bulletin 157 gives ANA 602 as "substitute" for MSG, though that may have only a "functional" meaning, i.e., the colour just substitutes MSG in the camouflage schemes it was used without judging about their likeness.

Fernando

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Fernando: I try to avoid using FS references, for although they can be useful they are not direct equivalents. I feel I should start with the correct history, as exact as possible, and then fudge it for my model, rather than starting with something already fudged. However, I gather that they aren't as cheap as they used to be, either.

The ANA6xx numbers were introduced to simply production in the US, and gave a set of colours that were acceptable (as opposed to exact matches) to the USAAF, USN and Air Ministry. You are right to use the word "substitute", as opposed to previous attempts by the US paint industry to produce (usually successfully) "equivalent" colours to the AM colour charts.

I have modified my previous posting slightly - it was intended as an answer to Navy Bird. I have learnt that irony very rarely works on the internet! Sometimes I forget that.....

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I have learnt that irony very rarely works on the internet! Sometimes I forget that.....

Don't worry about me, I like that, and try it whenever I can. However, over the internet, I am usually misled into taking everything literally because too often it is!

Fernando

Edited by Fernando
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I agree with Graham about FS colours which all too often become the colour rather than just the nearest "close match". Even "close match" is subjective because most comparison charts don't quantify the extent of proximity - or more usually difference. There is also the issue of 'scale colour' and personal preference by which this thread was born and no doubt by which it will die.

Comparing the measured MAP swatches from DTD TC 360 I found differences to Geoff Thomas's matches (both versions which have differences themselves and which were matched visually) and to conventionally quoted FS matches.

FS 34083 is closest to Dark Green @ 1.14 (where < 2.0 = a close match) although no doubt too dark for a model (GT gives 34079 which is @ 4.31)

FS 26152 is closest to Ocean Grey @ 2.70 but not quite blue enough (GT gives 26187)

FS 35237 is closest to MSG @ 2.47 but a little darker (GT gives 36270) RAL 7000 Fehgrau (squirrel grey) is close @ 1.16 and is replicated by Revell 157 Grau but I can't vouch for it.

When many people match colours visually they sometimes go one of two ways. Either they choose a color that is closer in relative brightness but not so close in hue or they focus on hue and are less sensitive to the brightness differences.

Fernando makes a very good point about 'substitute' colours.

Edited by Nick Millman
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Thanks to everyone for their contributions. I find it rather fascinating to follow these threads which begin with such a simple question: What paint colors should I use?

Nick, I wonder if you could explain your last post to me? Were these measurements taken with a colorimeter? I manage two optics companies here in NY and color measurement is not something we do. I'd love to learn more about that process. (I took the color hue test that was included as a link in one of the posts here on Britmodeller - I got an 8. I think zero was the best score. My weakness was in the blue-grey area, or in other words, just what we're discussing!)

Here is a shot of my Spitfire that I'm currently working on. I think this shot shows the Ocean Grey and Dark Green as it appears to my eye. Other photos that I've taken have the colors appearing wrong due to lighting, etc.

100_1336.jpg

In this shot, I've painted the leading edges of the wings white, prior to spraying yellow. The Dark Green used is Gunze H73, and the Ocean Grey is Gunze H75. Opinions? The underside is painted FS 36375, but it looks like I followed some bad advice on that one, and I need to switch to another color. I have both FS 35237 and FS 36270, both Gunze. I also have the "modern" Medium Sea Grey from Gunze, which has a BS number that I can't remember right now - BS381C/637 maybe?

One of the concerns I had was that photos of both models and the actual planes show that there is a noticeable difference between the Ocean Grey and Medium Sea Grey. You can see this well at the demarcation line where the camo scheme on top meets the underside grey. I think it's important for me to replicate that on the model, and not have the two greys very similar to each other.

I agree that the British paints are probably a better match than the Japanese ones, but it is not easy to obtain them here in the States. I have a huge stash of Gunze Aqueous (I used to import them and sell them mail order during the late 80s) and it has become my paint of choice (the fact that it airbrushes like a dream helps too!)

Any further comments, corrections, or additions are welcome! Thank You!

Bill

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The "anything goes brigade" should look away now.

The MAP swatches were measured with a photospectrometer and the resultant values in L*a*b* compared to those for the FS values (and to other standards such as Munsell, RAL, etc.) using a colour translation, illumination and analysis programme which measures the difference. The difference calculation is based on the DE2000 formula recommended by the Commission International de l’Éclairage (CIE). The lower the number the closer the match - a difference calculation of 2.0 or less indicates a close match where the difference between the two colours is practically imperceptible to the human eye, but the actual hue does have a bearing on this.

The values used by CIE - L*, a*, and b*, and the colour measurement is called CIELAB (the full name is CIE 1976 L*a*b*). In CIELAB, a colour is represented by three numbers that specify its coordinates in a three-dimensional volume. As with Munsell, L* represents the difference between light (where L*=100) at the top and dark (L*=0) at the bottom of a vertical axis. Measurements are standardized in ASTM E-308, Standard Practice for Computing the Colour of Objects by Using the CIE System.

The human eye perceives colour as the following pairs of opposites: Light-Dark, Red-Green, and Yellow-Blue (called the Opponent Colours Theory). A colour cannot possess both red and green or yellow and blue components at the same time. Thus, a* represents the difference between green (-a*) and red (+a*), and b* represents the difference between yellow (+b*) and blue (-b*). Using this system, any colour can be described by its three-dimensional L*a*b* coordinates. A CIELAB of 50,75,5 would be red, while 50,-75,5 would be green, and a yellow could be 70,0,80. Two samples that are the same colour and change only in lightness would be, for example, 50,50,50 and 75,50,50. Because colours are specified in terms of numbers, it is relatively simple to go one step further and describe a difference between two colours. That difference, or delta (D or triangle), is expressed against each of the co-ordinates.

An additional combined value of the deltas in L* a* b* values has been created to provide a single value to express a total colour change value: Delta E, where DE=(DL*2 + Da*2 + Db*2). Delta E represents the magnitude of difference in colour but cannot indicate the direction of colour difference without further analysis work using the underlying co-ordinates. That is why with close comparisons, up to about 5, it is necessary to additionally describe the difference in terms of colour, lightness and saturation (chromatic intensity) unless the two colours can be shown side by side in a verifiable medium.

In general, a hue shift is more noticeable than a chroma (saturation) or lightness change, but this can be highly subjective. The tendency I described in the previous post is especially prevalent, where observers tend to fixate on hue similarity and not pick up on lightness or vice versa. In terms of the DE difference most people find it difficult to discern a difference of 3 or less, and a difference of 5 is quite subtle unless it concerns something for which there is an expectation or knowledge of the original colour. For modelling purposes I tend to work on the basis that any difference over 4 makes the "equivalent" or matched colour useless for correctly visualising or imitating the original but again we get into the territory of how close is close enough and the imponderable aspects of scale and personal preference. In terms of full scale paints a variance of up to 5 could be attributed to batch difference but it will depend on quality control and what the manufacturer guarantees. Without being able to conduct meaningful tests on sufficient paint samples I crudely estimate that a DE difference of up to 5 would have been fairly common in wartime paints batch to batch and perhaps more where they relied on human interaction in preparation and mixing. This is why it is potentially unsafe to determine a paint colour standard from a single example of actual applied paint or indeed to argue differences or similarities on the same basis. In paint colour the 'silver bullet' and 'smoking gun' doesn't exist so it is better to accumulate, compare and triangulate wherever possible. The modeller is not usually trying to replicate the full scale paint colour precisely but rather to create a convincing impression.

The mathematical process of comparison obviates visual subjectivity but often gives results that are contrary to matches previously made visually (and subjectively) where one or more of the co-ordinates may be given additional or less weight in perception or where indeed the observation may introduce metameric failure. In addition it is almost impossible to quantify any allowance for scaling made by the match originator so the allocation of a specific FS value to an original paint colour standard has many potential margins of error. As Graham has noted, it is easier to introduce elements of scale, paint degradation, weathering and batch variance when the original paint colour standard can be visualised but to do that requires accurate communication of the original value, especially where a physical 'show and tell' is unfeasible.

The common source of observer metameric failure is colour blindness, but it is also not uncommon among "normal" observers. In all cases, the proportion of long-wavelength-sensitive cones to medium-wavelength-sensitive cones in the retina, the profile of light sensitivity in each type of cone, and the amount of yellowing in the lens and macular pigment of the eye, differs from one person to the next. This alters the relative importance of different wavelengths in a spectral power distribution to each observer's colour perception. As a result, two spectrally dissimilar lights or surfaces may produce a colour match for one observer but fail to match when viewed by a second observer. It is often the answer to why paint match charts are inconsistent.

Finally, field-size metameric failure occurs because the relative proportions of the three cone types in the retina vary from the center of the visual field to the periphery, so that colours that match when viewed as very small, centrally fixated areas may appear different when presented as large colour areas. This often kicks in when people are trying to match small areas of colour - like the chips on FS decks - to larger objects at a distance but again the concept of scale colour has a bearing. In many industrial applications, large field colour matches are used to define colour tolerances.

What colour looks like is a matter of perception but what colour is is a matter of measured values in controlled conditions. Therefore I can tell you what colour the Ocean Grey paint colour standard in DTD TC 360 is (now - it might have been slightly different 70 years ago!) but if the actual colour is displayed you may have an entirely different perception of it to another observer.

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Thanks Nick! As someone with an Optical Engineering degree, I understood your explanation very well. You did a great job explaining it. Have you studied optics? I had a few University courses in colorimetry, but have not had the chance to work directly in that field, hence my question.

I also think that the often used "scale effect" is not the same for different colors, or at least it can't be applied in the same way. The typical explanation is that as the scale gets smaller, the colors need to be lightened up. Being a "Navy Bird" (think light gull gray over white) I've always wondered how do you lighten white? I think that white at a distance actually starts to look grey. At enough of a distance, everything starts looking grey.

Tonight, I'll put a coat of Gunze Medium Sea Grey on the underbelly of the Spit and see how it looks. I knew I shouldn't have painted the yellow leading edges just yet! :wacko:

Cheers,

Bill

Edited by Navy Bird
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The "anything goes brigade"... now that a term i will remember to use in other contexts, brilliant !

I very much agree with you Nick

Navy Bird go for a US supplier that carries WEM or Xtracolour ( my personel preference is WEM ), in short of that

use Gunze's colours

Bo

The "anything goes brigade" should look away now.

.What colour looks like is a matter of perception but what colour is is a matter of measured values in controlled conditions. Therefore I can tell you what colour the Ocean Grey paint colour standard in DTD TC 360 is (now - it might have been slightly different 70 years ago!) but if the actual colour is displayed you may have an entirely different perception of it to another observer.

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