AnonymousAA72 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) I'm hoping to finish my T10/12 conversion in these markings.......question is which Green? In SAM (2001) Jonathan Mock's drawings stated that it was Lichen Green - the same colour as the underside of the two-tone Green scheme used by the GR5 and early GR7/T10's. I don't know if I'd seen that elsewhere, but I always thought that the single green colour on this one-off scheme was just that. I'm fairly certain that I'd seen such a reference to this prior to 2001 - but you know how time bends through the wormholes of our modelling universe........ Anyway.....a few years ago (I think?) there was a thread on the HARSig website where Nick Greenall stated that it was NATO Green, with Dark Camo Gtrey fin cap and intake. NATO Green is the upper surface colour of the two tone green scheme, and whereas its very similar to standard RAF Dark Green, it appears to be a bit lighter - maybe? Luckily there are quite a few photo's of '653 on the net. Now, in some photo's it does look too dark to be Lichen Green, but not dark enough to be NATO green.....somewhere inbetween maybe? Any further thoughts? Jonathan/ Nick/ Dave? Additionally, last I heard '653 was at Boscombe Down. Is she still there? Anyone know her fate? Harrier T10/12 ZH653 Take a look at this photo....note the colour of the front canopy....it MAY just be Dark Sea Grey (I can't tell on my monitor!) but it COULD be Dark Green. Either way it looks darker than the green of the airframe.... ZH653 Edited August 13, 2011 by Bill Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocksAway Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Bill, I'd paint the colour you "see" and don't worry about what its called. As you say the varying exposure "errors" make it look quite different. As a trials aircraft I expect it was a bit of liquorice - allsorts of bits. My 2p says its closer to LG, but what do I know?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobski Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 It certainly isn't Lichen green - far too dark for that. I'd be more inclined to go with Nick Greenall and paint it NATO green, that's what it looks like to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocksAway Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Bobski - see I said I know nothing, and I'm not even from Barcelona. Looking at various shots, I'd say digital cameras are recording the green lighter than film - which may be down to sensors rather than exposure? Anyone on here work at Boscombe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 In an issue of SAM (I have no information on which), Jonathan Mock has a profile where the colour is specified as "Medium Green BS4800.12B.25". It looks much like Lichen Green though. Nils PS. I like your signature Bill, though the roundell is not "correct". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Nils, the BS colour is the same as Lichen Green (Lichen is the shade name of one particular brand for that BS - the same colour is 'sage' in another colour chart and 'chive' in another) It was later incorporated into BS381C as 284 Spruce Green. As to ZH653, I've always thought it looked too light to be NATO green. In the pic Bill links to the rear canopy appears to be standard NATO green. I'd love to see a photo of it next to a green Harrier (or an RAF helo) to see how close the shade is. Part of me suspects it's a custom one. Have a look here: http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-phot...2/6/1067626.jpg If the LIDS are Lichen, then the colour is slightly darker than that, but not by the same amount as you would expect for NATO green. However, then look at this: http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-phot...4/5/0783541.jpg and the green is much closer to NATO Green - could it be a particular brand or type of IRR Paint that shows more variation than 'normal' NATO green? Edited August 13, 2011 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG899 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Bill, In the SIG's latest colour chart, produced by Graham et al, we have: NATO/IRR Green (BSC381C:285) Humbrol 102 / Xtracolor X018 upper surfaces Lichen Green (BS4800.12B.25) Humbrol 120 / Xtracolot X024 lower surfaces I asked Rob Monfea about ZH653 last year and his BAE sources at Warton confirmed that it was finished in the standard early T10 camo 2-tone green colours. Not sure when it last went through the paint shop so they may have faded a tad. Hope that helps. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Bill, FWIW, I'm inclined to go with Lichen Green for a couple of reasons. First up, look at the AAM pylon, it's in the standard NATO Green/Lichen Green finish with a nice straight demarcation line down it. Secondly, look at the intake lip. It shows a considerable contrast with the green of the airframe. This level of contrast, although discernable, is not as pronounced with NATO Green. These observations are based on the 2nd, larger image you've linked to. You've also got printed evidence in the form of the SAM article by Jonathan Mock. I know this final part is not the most scientific, but comparing the images with the tin lid of Xtracolor X24 Lichen Green would have me filling my airbrush and spraying away by now if I were in your position! Hope this helps a little, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) I asked Rob Monfea about ZH653 last year and his BAE sources at Warton confirmed that it was finished in the standard early T10 camo 2-tone green colours. Not sure when it last went through the paint shop so they may have faded a tad. Nick, That doesn't sound right - , even allowing for fading, it's never had visible two-tone green - there are no demarcations where there should be http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-phot...2/6/1067626.jpg http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-phot...5/1/0735152.jpg Have a look at the pic in the WAPJ 32 P108 for how she appeared early on. For comparison, here's ZH654 showing the demarcation on the lower intake http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-phot...9/4/0324493.jpg EDIT: - thought - ZH653 was built at Dunsfold, all the other T10s were built at Warton. Perhaps not relevant, but....? Edited August 13, 2011 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 In SAM (2001) Jonathan Mock's drawings stated that it was Lichen Green Oh god him? He breaks wind in supermarkets and then tries to blame it on others, so I heard... It was quoted to me as being overall Medium Green BS4800.12B.25, whether it was meant to then have the topside green applied I'll pass (would be odd to cover the whole upper surface). I never questioned it because colours vary so much anyway depending on capture source and reproduction. If it is another colour, I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 And in reference to the latter I refer the jury to the desert pink Jaguar T2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Bill have a look at my earlier attempt. BM - ZH653 I litterally went up to the bloody thing and was holding the canberra up to the A/C. and here's my finished build. T.10/12 Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boscombe73 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Not sure if ZH653 is at Boscombe, however a week after Harrier withdrawl there was a T10 running up on the apron. That was a grey one though, and could not get close enough to see code, it was shut down and towed back in though so anyone's guess now, mothballed I expect? Will see if anyone knows anything on site this week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) This pic here: http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-phot...4/5/0783541.jpg The area around the FROG eye fire access intakes on the upper fuselage by the LERX would appear to be painted in a darker shade rather than a fresh coat of the main colour. Whether its perception or not but it seems to have the same contrast as the outrigger pylon which, I'm almost sure, is in the two-tone BS381C:285/BS381 284 (BS4800.12B.25) greens scheme. As I said, lightning conditions and input/output sources can have a big effect on the perception of colours. Edit: Plus the lighter shade on the outriggers would appear consistent with the other pylons, which also appear to be consistent with the overall airframe. If someone from BAE Systems is happy to arrange access so I can bring my BS381C chips with me, I'm happy to do the comparison! Edited August 14, 2011 by Jonathan Mock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocksAway Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Jonathan I'd say that shot is possibly underexposed ... resulting in it looking like NG ... compared with this that looks it more like LG. So ... Bill ... paint in black in 899 NAS and call it a "what-if" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 JonathanI'd say that shot is possibly underexposed ... resulting in it looking like NG ... compared with this that looks it more like LG. So ... Bill ... paint in black in 899 NAS and call it a "what-if" I'm looking more at the pylon colours, the LG on the outrigger seem to match the other pylons and the airframe, whereas the APU panel by the LERX looks like IRR Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 Bill have a look at my earlier attempt.BM - ZH653 I litterally went up to the bloody thing and was holding the canberra up to the A/C. and here's my finished build. T.10/12 Steve. Deja Vu eh Steve!! I knew that we'd all had this discussion before!!! I'm not quite ready to start painting yet - but I'll certainly need to mix up some paint soon - I have a tin of Xtracolour Lichen Green - but its enamel, and its not in Xtracylic's range. And I only use acrylic's nowadays! Thanks to everyone for their input - again!!! And Jonathan don't get me started on the pink Jag T2!!!! And Nils - oops!!!! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlswain341 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Sorry to add my 2penneth in to the mix. There are actualy two distinct shades of IRR NATO green. One for airframes and one for vehicles. I have rattle cans of both to paint my models and the vehicle version is very different to the airframe shade and quite a bit lighter. The vehicle version is half way between the Lichen green and airframe nato green so could it be that this was the colour used ? It would account for it being described as Nato green but a few shades lighter than the Nato green we associate with RAF aircraft. Just a thought Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 Sorry to add my 2penneth in to the mix. There are actualy two distinct shades of IRR NATO green. One for airframes and one for vehicles. I have rattle cans of both to paint my models and the vehicle version is very different to the airframe shade and quite a bit lighter. The vehicle version is half way between the Lichen green and airframe nato green so could it be that this was the colour used ? It would account for it being described as Nato green but a few shades lighter than the Nato green we associate with RAF aircraft.Just a thought Steve Many thanks for that Steve - interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now