hacker Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) http://ca.news.yahoo.com/chinas-aircraft-c...-051816797.html "At best, it could makes some waves in the South China Sea and intimidate the poorly equipped navies of Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines," said Jonathan Holslag of the Brussels Institute of Contemporary China Studies. Intimation tactic towards its neighbors in the future? Edited August 10, 2011 by hacker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Ho hum... the PRC Navy is now where the USN was in 1922, and the RN before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I wonder if they will pay the indemnity to TUrkey they made when it passed out the Black Sea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewolf Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The Chinese have a lot to learn, but I'll bet they get there! There has been a very real determination in China for many years for them to have an aircraft carrier, it's considered to be a real status symbol. They have a full size mock up on land that they have been using for flight deck training for a good while now. It might take another twelve months or so for this ship to become operational, but become operational it will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Wonder if they have worked out its a good idea to design it so the aircraft you are intending to buy can operate from it ok? If they have then maybe they could do a secondment of their procurement personnel to our MOD? Meiouw - I am off to lap at a saucer of milk now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdo Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Wonder if they have worked out its a good idea to design it so the aircraft you are intending to buy can operate from it ok? If they have then maybe they could do a secondment of their procurement personnel to our MOD?Meiouw - I am off to lap at a saucer of milk now Of course, if it happens the other way round then we'll be safe from China for a long long time to come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hacker Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 Seeing the bullying they been doing in the south china sea with Vietnam, Philippines and others as of late in that area it should be a good bet that they will use it as a big stick to get their way there. Even with the carrier groups and the layers of defenses the USN has they realize how vulnerable they are. China has a long way to go to get caught up to the US but does not mean they want to. It maybe that they want enough to control their little corner of the world. Some how l think the Chinese are going the same path as the Imperial Japan did in the 40s. Personally l just have this feeling that everyone from India to Australia will be embroiled in a war in the near future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brighton rock Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 And just where will our own Navy be at the time China is flexing its muscles. Our govenment of the day will want to commit and support our allies in the region, but our dwindling capability will be gone/impotent or at best ineffective. We are currently on the process of burying our heads in the sand and hoping the potential threat to world trade and supply will not materialise tomorrow, but these sorts of attitudes to potential threats just always come back and bite us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Personally l just have this feeling that everyone from India to Australia will be embroiled in a war in the near future Sounds quite a pessimistic view of the future ! More so as for some countries in the region China is the most important business partner. Australia at war with its best customer ? Can't really see the logic for such a situation... Threats to world trade from China ? China's prosperity depends heavily on world trade ! They'd be the first to be interested in free commercial routes. It's clear that China is slowly trying to grow its political influence in parallel to the growth of their economic influence, and this also involves increasing the military power projection capabilities in their area. In a sense is a repetition of what the US did in the late XIX century in the caribbean and then in latin america. Naval aviation is a big part of this and China has tried for a long time to have a carrier. Now they are almost getting there, and will sure get there. A good reason to get there is that China's main local competitor already has one and has had carriers for a long time. Not the USN, but India ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 "...what you do with an old carrier..." lease it to the United Kingdom.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 For some reason, China, who builds commercial ships in quantity, has bought the hull of an old Soviet era carrier. One would have thought that it was the electronics what they couldn't make, but the hull? I wonder if the materials involved in the construction of a big warships are beyond China's present capabilities... maybe the same happened in the protracted process of "copying" the R-33 (?) engines from the Su-27s? something in the Chinese metal alloys? Anyway, just one carrier makes a nice target, not a power-projection tool... especially an ex-Soviet one, whose design philosophy is very different from Westerns' true pure carriers. Though of course they might have got rid of all the SSMs and turned it into a pure carrier themselves. Besides, it is true the RN was there a long time ago, but... where she is now? Just food for thought, Fernando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Fernando, my understanding from what I've heard and read is that China wanted the old soviet carrier to try and understand the various details of the design, especially the layout of the internal spaces and the philosophy of systems placement. As they have no experience of carriers at all and had to start from scratch, buying an existing ship was found the best solution to shorten the development of any solution required and allow them to start practice operations. I would expect China to start develop their own carrier designs at some point after enough experience has been accumulated with this one. It will then be interesting to see if they will go for the soviet hybrid carrier/cruiser design or for the pure carrier concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roym Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 First they bought ex RAN HMAS Melbourne, ostensibly for her scrapping but they dismantled her piece by piece and studied her construction as they did so. Then they bought 2 ex Russian Kiev-class, and studied them. Then they built 2 mockups, one a concrete clone that resembles a Nimitz class in layout, based in a lake, and another a replica of a Kuznetsov flight deck and island, on top of a building (big building). They will build their own carrier soon enough, don't doubt it. AFAIK they have removed the vertical missile launchers from Varyag as was mentioned above. I do believe they will use her for training purposes, initally, but remember this is also a country that builds it's own Su-27 clones, Su-33s are not that far away. Should also be an interesting counterfoil to Japan's helicopter/harrier COUGH COUGH carrier er I mean destroyer DDH....... Plenty more interesting reading here.... http://www.varyagworld.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Then they built 2 mockups, one a concrete clone that resembles a Nimitz class in layout, based in a lake This one...... OK - I've done a bit of PS'ing....... It looks like this really........ It looks more like Kuznetsov than Nimitz - and it is in a large educational park in Shanghai - we were told that it was to 'educate' the Chinese youth about what a carrier looks like, rather than being a testbed for the PLAN. But it is an expensive educational toy!!! More photos from the Oriental Green Boat Park here Su-33s are not that far away. The J-15 (Su-33 clone) is already in flight testing.... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman2 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) J-15 'Flying Shark' Multirole Naval Fighter ? Net Photo Net Photo Edited September 10, 2011 by magman2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Nice find magman2 The only visual difference I can see between that J-15 and a Su-33 is the wingtip launch rails. On the J-17 they are lowered - presumably to accomodate the Chinese missiles. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDragon Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Dragon is the first with a J-15 kit. http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/prodd.asp?pid=DRA4627 It's just the 1/144th Su37 kit with a tail hook added by the looks of it. Paul Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalbert Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 And just where will our own Navy be at the time China is flexing its muscles. Our govenment of the day will want to commit and support our allies in the region, but our dwindling capability will be gone/impotent or at best ineffective.We are currently on the process of burying our heads in the sand and hoping the potential threat to world trade and supply will not materialise tomorrow, but these sorts of attitudes to potential threats just always come back and bite us We will be busy having meetings,doing risk assesments and consulting health and safety,then we will invite the Chinese round for a cup of tea and discuss Chinas inner feelings and try and get them to open up.Then we will blame ourselves and it will all end up being our fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fea Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 We will be busy having meetings,doing risk assesments and consulting health and safety,then we will invite the Chinese round for a cup of tea and discuss Chinas inner feelings and try and get them to open up.Then we will blame ourselves and it will all end up being our fault. Ayup All... The easiest thing to do to China if they get uppity is send a Traf Class out, and do, well, a Belgrano. Lets face it, our Economies may be on the verge of Collapse, but That means that they've still got MOST to lose, if we don't buy any of their stuff... There's no NEED for agression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brighton rock Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Is it possible that the concrete verion of the aircraft carrier is able to be used as a deck landing, catapult launch training device. I am aware that China does have a training facility in situ at some airfield which simulates an aircraft carrier deck layout. Su-33 trials for deck landings are being carried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Is it possible that the concrete verion of the aircraft carrier is able to be used as a deck landing, catapult launch training device. I doubt it...... It's in a public park It has no arrestor gear nor catapults It is fixed in place - it isn't afloat and can't be turned into wind. It is just a giant visitor attraction......... this is a map of the Oriental Green Boat Park.... Aft 'flight deck'..... Front end - with 'catapult shuttle' and 'blast deflector' - both dummies... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Wonder how long till trumpeter make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 You must admit, that's impressive. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 It looks like a "1984" version of the history of the PLA-Navy... they have never had an operational carrier, but now they already have a suitably placed turistical "memorial", just like the USS Intrepid. Looks pretty obvious that, without being able to turn into the wind, no aircraft operations can be made. No to say that it lacks the proper clearance to private property you see even in airports... a failed launch would send the machine straight into a living complex. It looks impressive indeed, though. Fernando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 a failed launch would send the machine straight into a living complex. Fernando, A failed cat launch would send the machine into the parks collection of aircraft !! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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