J Mooney Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Hi All, I have a Testors 1/72 Javelin kit that I'd like to build as a desktop model. I understand that the kit represents the fourth Javelin prototype. Does anyone know what colours this aircraft was painted in, particularly the tail and undersurfaces? Were they light aircraft grey? Thanking you in advance. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Hi All,I have a Testors 1/72 Javelin kit that I'd like to build as a desktop model. I understand that the kit represents the fourth Javelin prototype. Does anyone know what colours this aircraft was painted in, particularly the tail and undersurfaces? Were they light aircraft grey? Thanking you in advance. Cheers, John Dark Green /Dark Sea Grey above ,High Speed Silver underneath. Standard colours for 99% of Javelins prototype or production. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mooney Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Dark Green /Dark Sea Grey above ,High Speed Silver underneath. Standard colours for 99% of Javelins prototype or production.Andrew Thanks Andrew for the info. Do you know if the tail was Dark Sea Grey also, or another colour - Gloster Javelin Fourth Prototype Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 The vertical tail on prototype Javelins appears to be High Speed Silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 According to 'Warpaint No.17" by Tony Buttler the underside and fin colour of the first four prototypes was medium sea gray and looking at the photos it does look more like that than HSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) According to 'Warpaint No.17" by Tony Buttler the underside and fin colour of the first four prototypes was medium sea gray and looking at the photos it does look more like that than HSS. Wasn't dark green/dark sea grey over medium sea grey the then current night fighters scheme ? Edited August 11, 2011 by Giorgio N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) Wasn't dark green/dark sea grey over medium sea grey the then current night fighters scheme ? Yes, but the Javelin wasn't a nightfighter! it was an ALL WEATHER fighter (FAW) it marked the end of the dedicated Nightfighter aircraft. Selwyn Edited August 11, 2011 by Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Selwyn, was there ever any reference to a dedicated scheme for FAWs? I know of previous schemes for night fighters, but never seen any for FAWs In the meantime I've found that I was wrong: when the 4th Javelin flew (January 1954) the latest regulations, issued in early september 1953, prescribed the green/grey/silver scheme for all fighters based in the UK. The AMO and the AP sent to the manufacturers list the word "fighter" alone, no distinction of day or night fighters as present in previous documents. This most likely explains why there might have been no reference to a dedicated scheme for FAWs: as this applied to all fighters (as I understand from the text), then FAWs would be included. Sounds like I'm answering my own questions here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) Selwyn, was there ever any reference to a dedicated scheme for FAWs? I know of previous schemes for night fighters, but never seen any for FAWsIn the meantime I've found that I was wrong: when the 4th Javelin flew (January 1954) the latest regulations, issued in early september 1953, prescribed the green/grey/silver scheme for all fighters based in the UK. The AMO and the AP sent to the manufacturers list the word "fighter" alone, no distinction of day or night fighters as present in previous documents. This most likely explains why there might have been no reference to a dedicated scheme for FAWs: as this applied to all fighters (as I understand from the text), then FAWs would be included. Sounds like I'm answering my own questions here.... I agree. At that time I think all home based RAF fighters, Javs, Hunters, Sabres,Swift etc were in the green/grey/silver scheme. the only difference being the lightning. In fact this scheme lasted into the seventies, the only change being the adoption of Light Aircraft Grey undersides, and this was forced on the RAF With the introduction of polyurethane paints in the late sixties. They could not for some technical reason manufacture a silver polyurethane paint at that time, so LA Grey was chosen as the closest equivelant paint available. Selwyn Edited August 11, 2011 by Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I agree. At that time I think all home based RAF fighters, Javs, Hunters, Sabres,Swift etc were in the green/grey/silver scheme. the only difference being the lightning. In fact this scheme lasted into the seventies, the only change being the adoption of Light Aircraft Grey undersides, and this was forced on the RAF With the introduction of polyurethane paints in the late sixties. They could not for some technical reason manufacture a silver polyurethane paint at that time, so LA Grey was chosen as the closest equivelant paint available. Selwyn All good stuff and quite accurate too but the photos of the first prototypes definitely look to be Med Sea Grey undersides. This would have been the same paint that Gloster was painting the NF Meteors in so it is quite logical that they would paint the early prototypes the same. The DH110 prototype wasn't painted in regulation colours either remember, so I guess that the Factories had a bit of leeway until contracts were confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I wouldn't say that at that time (january 1954) all the UK based fighters used that scheme, as the scheme was quite new (3-4 months) and sure took a while to be implemented on those aircrafts that were already in service (meteors mainly) while the new ones like the Hunter reached the units already with that scheme (July 1954 for the first in 43 Sqn. service). But also the Swifts F.1 were delivered still in overall silver even if they entered service in february 1954, 4 months after orders for the new scheme were officially issued (the F.2s seem to have been delivered in the new scheme only a few months later). Back to this particular Javelin, while I don't know anything for sure, I wouldn't be surprised if Gloster had used the scheme then current for nightfighters on the Javelin prototypes.. Of course prototypes could have been in any colour. Of the two pictures I've seen of WT830, one seems to be more a medium grey, the other might show lighter undersurfaces (compatible with high speed silver). Of course I am aware of how HSS weathers to a greyish tone and is hard to distinguish in B/W pictures.. minefield, minefield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mooney Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 Thank you all for your help. To be honest, I couldn't pick the colour of the fourth prototype's undersides - in some pictures it looked to be silver, in others, grey! However, the appearance of the tail fin has swayed me. I'll go with dark green/dark sea grey over medium sea grey as per Duncan's advice. Thanks again to you all for your help. This really is a great discussion board! Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 In the Dalrymple & Verdun book it states that all prototypes carried slight variations of the camouflage scheme throughout their lives, but the first aircraft to feature Speed Silver painted aluminium undersides was the first production machine F(AW) Mk1 XA544 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 In the Dalrymple & Verdun book it states that all prototypes carried slight variations of the camouflage scheme throughout their lives, but the first aircraft to feature Speed Silver painted aluminium undersides was the first production machine F(AW) Mk1 XA544 I've got that book too, well worth the money for anyone interested in the Javelin. I didn't bother looking at it for this one as the photos in the Warpaints book seemed quite conclusive. Good shout though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsbodyx Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) John asked for the colour of the fourth Javelin prototype. My initial thought was he meant the prototype for the FAW 4 but I see now that I misunderstood (and thus scanned a load of stuff I need not have done!!!). I do not pretend to be any expert, I have just dug out a few old books I have. Anyway the pamphlet Service History of the Gloster Javelin Marks 1 - 6 has a section on the prototypes. Page 27 Appendix A describes the 4th prototype as WT830. That scan is located here (just so's we know which aircraft we are talking about!): http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/Do...yx/Javelin5.jpg I have scanned page 5 of this wherein it shows a photo of all the prototypes lined up. Column 1 para 4 confirms the fourth prototype was WT830 (apparently the first Javelin to go supersonic) and the last paragraph on the centre column says that all prototypes were coloured dark sea grey/dark green upper surfaces and light grey undersurfaces but on production machines the light grey became silver. Scan is here: http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/Do...yx/Javelin1.jpg EDIT: Just to throw more confusion...... I have found an obscure picture of the second prototype the caption of which says "WD808, the second prototype GA5 (Javelin) taking off from the Gloster test airfield of Moreton Valance, near to the Severn Estuary in Gloucestershire. The medium grey fin and undersurfaces characterized the first four prototypes...." http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/Do...yx/Javelin8.jpg Edited August 15, 2011 by Dogsbodyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 On balance I do not think medium grey would be described as light grey so perhaps light aircraft grey is the correct colour. Not Light Aircraft Grey, as this colour had not made an appearance at this time, but arrived much later as a replacement for High Speed Silver. the most likely "light grey" would be Medium Sea Grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mooney Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Dogsbodyx - yep, WT830 is the aircraft I intend to build. I didn't know it was the first Javelin to go supersonic - the information you provided was most interesting - thank you! Thanks again everyone for your help. I think we've conclusively shown the prototypes were painted in Dark Green, Dark Grey and Medium Sea Grey. Edited August 17, 2011 by J Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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