Hurricane Mk. II B...

[Navy Bird]

Hi mates,

I'm about to start the Revell 1/72 Hurricane Mk. II B (kit 04138). I also have in my stash the Eduard photoetched set 73218 for the Hurricane Mk. II C, which includes a complete cockpit that replaces that in the Revell Mk. II C kit (kit 04144). Not knowing much about Hurricanes (other than the Gulf of Mexico variety) would it be against the rules to use the Mk. II C cockpit in the Mk. II B model? I wouldn't want to pull a Hurricane faux pas, especially on this site! The Eduard set also includes instrument panel, side consoles, lowered flaps, radiator details, stirrup, trim tab hinges, canopy handles, rear view mirror, brake lines, etc. The same question would apply here - are these still OK for use in Mk. II B? In anything is different, I suspect maybe the instrument panel.

A Hawker-challenged Yank,

Bill

Edited August 2, 2011 by Navy Bird

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

I personally wouldn't be bothered as in 1/72 I would guess the interiors would look pretty much the same! As long as it's got them lovely big cannons and the right panneling to match on the wings I don't think many people would spot any other would be errors!

I will watch this thread just in case there are any differences as I have both the Mk IIB and Mk IIC in my stash and a second Mk IIC, that will soon be a Mk IID courtesy of the 3D kits conversion set (hit the link below if you want one of these!)

Thanks

Mike

[Navy Bird]

I personally wouldn't be bothered as in 1/72 I would guess the interiors would look pretty much the same! As long as it's got them lovely big cannons and the right panneling to match on the wings I don't think many people would spot any other would be errors!

I will watch this thread just in case there are any differences as I have both the Mk IIB and Mk IIC in my stash and a second Mk IIC, that will soon be a Mk IID courtesy of the 3D kits conversion set (hit the link below if you want one of these!)

Thanks

Mike

Hi Mike,

I wouldn't ask the question if I was going to use the kit canopy (which is one piece closed, about a scale 5 inches thick). But I figure on using a vacuform canopy from Falcon, and will have it open. And with MY luck, someone who is the world's leading authority on Hurricane cockpits will shine one of those tiny LED flashlights inside!

Thanks for the tip on the 3D conversion kits. I haven't seen them before. Looks like some nice stuff!

Bill

[Learstang]

I just had a butcher's at your site, Mike - nice site and it is now bookmarked. I'm especially interested in the Spitfire bits.

Regards,

Learstang

[AnonymousFO98]

Shove their LED where the sun don't shine Bill

TBH even with the canopy open am not sure the differences are so glaringly obvious that any sane person would be so critical.

The difference between the IIB and IIC is simply the wing type so afaik the controls are all the same.

Someone with a better knowledge will doubtless prove that wrong.

Any differences in switches, knobs and dials is going to be minimal and would mean messing about with the etch which is of itself not 100% accurate iirc

It is good enough, please don't misunderstand. The pipes and wires could be added if you wish

Edited August 1, 2011 by walrus

[Navy Bird]

Shove their LED where the sun don't shine Bill

TBH even with the canopy open am not sure the differences are so glaringly obvious that any sane person would be so critical.

The difference between the IIB and IIC is simply the wing type so afaik the controls are all the same.

Someone with a better knowledge will doubtless prove that wrong.

Any differences in switches, knobs and dials is going to be minimal and would mean messing about with the etch which is of itself not 100% accurate iirc

It is good enough, please don't misunderstand. The pipes and wires could be added if you wish

Sounds like a plan to me! Braille scale is pretty small for a subject like a Hurri, so I think you're right about it being very difficult to tell the difference in the pit. That's good too, because I really want to use the etch for the cockpit "frame" (I guess that is what you'd call it). It reminds me a bit of the Wildcat, where there isn't a "tub" really, it's more like an internal frame to which the seat, rudder pedals, and associated goodies are connected. If I'm reading the Eduard instructions correctly...

Bill

[Troy Smith]

Have a look at the eduard site, they have downloadable pdf's of their instructions, you could compare the IIc with IIB.

But as Hurricane buff, the difference will be minimal, the IIc and IIB guns use the same firing button, AFAIK they use the same entire fuselage....

you really want to know? this is a link to a download of the pilots notes for the Hurricane IIA, IIB, IIC, IID and IV Aircraft.... there are indexed cockpits pics, and notes on what's applicable to what.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/...s-Hurricane.pdf

HTH

T

[AnonymousFO98]

That is correct Bill

The kit has a floor which the Hurri did not have.

The only down side to the etch is obviously the 2D nature.

Will try and take a piccy of my unfinished Hase Hurri MkI to show what it looks like in situ. Didn't get a shot before the GB ended and the project hit the back burner of doom.

TBH Looking at it again after all this time, am a tad disappointed wit but that is as much to do with my poor paint job and lack of PE skills.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=48965

Edited August 1, 2011 by walrus

[Mikey58]

Even on a 1/48 Hurri there is not a lot of detail that can be seen-I built one with an Eduard detail set and pretty much most of it disappeared when the fuselage halves were closed-even with the canopy and starboard access panel open-most frustrating!If anyone can spot any differences in that scale (and I'm not sure there are any),then good luck to them.

Mike

Edited August 1, 2011 by Mikey58

[Giorgio N]

I would not really bother with any cockpit difference in 1/72 scale, they are small anyway and in this scale would probably be invisible.

I would rather worry more about another aspect of using a Falcon canopy: the revell kit is known for having a wrong length of the canopy area. A correction was shown in an older issue of SAM, correction that involved moving the whole cockpit forward and then reprofiling the area behind the canopy. Now if the falcon canopy you have is for a correct length canopy, you might need to do something to match it to the kit area.

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

I think Troy and Walrus said what I meant but better! I usually only add Eduard seatbelts in my 1/72 aircraft but I guess if you what the canopy open then some Eduard zoom etch can look nice (I love the coloured instrument panel myself!).

Thanks for looking at our website guys. Make sure you check out the galleries of completed models and airshow/museum pics. We have still to load up some pics from our Norwegian museum visit and Flying Legends 2011, so watch out. As for the guys liking the 3D kits stuff - it's excellent stuff! There's a couple of Rotol prop Spitfires (Mk I and II) in the gallery that I built using the new Airfix kit and 3D kits parts - I've just done an Airfix Hurricane as a Mk IID using 3D kits parts as well, so we'll get pics of that on there as well.

thanks

Mike

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Actually while we're on about Hurricanes, I'll be doing at least 2 of the Revell Mk IIC's. One will be the Med/North Africa colours and the other SEAC. Given that the Hurricane was pretty much outclassed as a fighter by 1941 onwards, would it be fair to assume Mk IIC's spent most of their days in North Africa and South East Asia on ground attack duties? As a result of that I know they could carry a pair of 250lb bombs but could they carry a pair of 500lb bombs? I'll have a spare pair of 500lb bombs from a Tempest kit.

thanks

Mike

[Test Graham]

Not from as early as 1941. They were still in use on air defense duties (excellent bomber destroyer) and even on more general air superiority missions into 1943, at least in SEAC. I don't have a full listing, but I know that 607 had at least one Mk.IIc in operation alongside its more normal Mk.IIb in the Arakan, although I get the impression that the units tended to operate Mk.IIc mainly when pulled back to Calcutta in the monsoon season, and generally had the more agile Mk.IIb (8 gun only?) when up at the front line. They were still in use as straight fighters on Malta well into 1942, so presumably still that way in the desert too.

Fighter recce - and some fighter? - Hurricanes flew with only two cannon. The poor thing was a bit overloaded and sluggish with 4 cannon in the wings.

It could cary 500lb bombs, at least later ones.

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Yes I imagine a fighter armed with 4 20mm cannons would be fairly adept at shooting down bombers! I was thinking that they wouldn't want to tangle with Bf109F's or Fw190's though.

I've got 3 different marking options to hand No 336 Sqd (Greek) RAF from Mersa Matruh, Egypt 1944. No 28 Sqd (Army co-op) RAF, SEAC, Dalbumghar, India 1944 and No 34 Sqd RAF, SEAC, Palel, Imphal, India, November 1943-April 1944. Would any of them be used as fighter-bombers (I can see the army co-op one being the prime one for bombs) and if so would they be 250lb or 500lb bombs.

As a fourth option (If I decide to be greedy) I also have markings for No 43 Sqd RAF when they covered the Dieppe raid. According to what I've read it just says Hurricane fighter bombers were used but it doesn't say whether they were being used as fighters or fighter bombers specifically - so would they have been 'clean', with bombs or drop tanks?

thanks

Mike

[Test Graham]

Think of the poor sods in the night fighters with fixed underwing pods as well, who were sent up against the daylight Calcutta raids and ran into Zeros.

I'm not sure about 336, and suspect that was a fighter unit as I don't recall seeing any photos of the Greeks with bombs, http://koti.welho.com/msolanak/HAFHawkerHurricane.html does show a profile with tanks. The other two were fighter bombers. As a hint, 34 was ex-Blenheims.

43Sq were pure fighters - from the UK the fighter-bombers were Mk.IIb. So clean.

[mhaselden]

Hurribombers were used with great effect in the Burma theatre. Here's a still from a relatively well-known film clip showing Hurribombers attacking a bridge target in Burma:

I would imagine they carried 2x250lb bombs but that's just a guess.

Cheers,

Mark

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Thanks guys!

Graham - I've noted that down. Would either the Greeks or no 43 Sqd have used the drop tanks at all?

thanks

Mike

[Test Graham]

336 was only doing convoy patrols, so maybe. I assume that the profile is based on known information, given its source.

43 Sq was doing night intruder missions with 1 Sq, and there is the well-known Kuttlewascher aircraft with tanks, so I'm sure the answer will be yes - providing you like them black underneath.

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

That's interesting as Airfix have it in their instructions as Medium Sea grey underneath! Does this mean Airfix are wrong for Op Jubilee?

thanks

Mike

[Test Graham]

No, the unit was taken off night work and repainted - but you were asking about carrying tanks.

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Thanks Graham, I think I get what you mean now. If I want them carrying drop tanks, I should paint the undersides black but if I want them as of Op Jubilee then it's Medium Sea grey underneath but no tanks?

thanks

Mike

[XV571]

Hi Mike,

I've not seen a photograph of a 43Sqn Hurricane with black undersides. That's not to say they didn't have aircraft so painted, but they did operate a mix of Night (matt) and standard Day Fighter Scheme Hurricanes IIbs and IIcs in 1942. There's no mention of the use of bombs in Jimmy Beedle's history; in fact there's a specific reference to the use of cannon and machine gun fire to suppress the German defences over Dieppe. Also, tanks don't appear in contemporary photos of the squadron taken about the time of the raid. The only photos I have seen of the squadron carrying the tanks are of the aircraft used when 43 flew into North Africa in November 1942.

If you plan to do Sqn Ldr Roy du Vivier's aircraft as depicted in the Airfix kit, be aware that his personal emblem painted on the panel under the canopy appeared on both sides of the fuselage. Airfix only provide one! Also the codes should be white not the 'light sky' colour used in the kit sheet. This isn't that noticeable when they're applied to the kit though. Sky codes were used on most of the other aircraft in DFS. The all black aircraft would most likely have had red codes and serials.

Jonathan

[Test Graham]

That's interesting: I did originally write just "black" but added "undersides" for two reasons.

1. The well-known representation of Kuttlewascher's 1 Sq (same time, same base, same operations) as having Day Fighter tops and black undersides

2. A series of photos of one Hurricane squadron (3?) that had been hurriedly repainted with Medium Sea Grey over black undersides, and the paint was peeling from the bottom but not noticeably from the top.

Obviously direct evidence trumps circumstantial.

[Navy Bird]

Have a look at the eduard site, they have downloadable pdf's of their instructions, you could compare the IIc with IIB.

But as Hurricane buff, the difference will be minimal, the IIc and IIB guns use the same firing button, AFAIK they use the same entire fuselage....

you really want to know? this is a link to a download of the pilots notes for the Hurricane IIA, IIB, IIC, IID and IV Aircraft.... there are indexed cockpits pics, and notes on what's applicable to what.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/...s-Hurricane.pdf

HTH

T

Troy,

What a great reference! Thanks so much! After having a look at the photos in there, there really is a lot of fiddly stuff which *could* be visible in a 1:72 Hurri with open canopy. Oh, the spots I paint myself into...

Cheers,

Bill

[Navy Bird]

That is correct Bill

The kit has a floor which the Hurri did not have.

The only down side to the etch is obviously the 2D nature.

Will try and take a piccy of my unfinished Hase Hurri MkI to show what it looks like in situ. Didn't get a shot before the GB ended and the project hit the back burner of doom.

TBH Looking at it again after all this time, am a tad disappointed wit but that is as much to do with my poor paint job and lack of PE skills.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=48965

Thanks for the link. The Eduard set for the Revell IIC (part 73218) has a complete "cage" if you will around the pilot's seat. I'm sure this is a representation of the internal frame structure of the cockpit. It looks like the set for your Hasegawa kit had just the seat, back panel, and the foot rests.

The task that looms ahead of me is coming into focus: tiny tweezers, 6.0 diopter reading glasses, eye drops, coffee, cursing, razor cuts...you know, modelling in the "gentleman's scale." I'll be sure to document this with a WIP.

Cheers,

Bill