Michou Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) It seems that the available drawings are none too reliable so here are some numbers which may be of help.http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o163/deMichu/Valiantfuselagestationsdiag.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o163/deMichu/Valianteqptlocdiag.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o163/deMichu/Valiantloadingdiagram.jpgNote, 10000lb "store" is a euphemism for the Blue Danube nuclear bombDimensions of components for packing:http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o163/deMichu/ValiantMk1Packingdimensions.jpgA couple of numbers gleaned from the AP. The bomb bay is between station 370 and 793. That includes the shelf at the front where the batteries, some fuses, radar gear and the window/chaff boxes are installed. The bomb bay doors are shorter.The ram air-intake on the left fuselage side behind the cockpit entrance is mounted between stations 341 and 350. Note - these are the mounting points and not the front and rear edges of the scoop. Caruana's drawings are definitely wrong with respect to this feature as shown by both these numbers and photographs. The intake (which supplies cooling air to equipment in the organ loft) does not protrude in front of the wing leading edge.I do not bother to put details into models which are going to be invisible once assembled. Even with the cockpit door open there is not much to see, but perhaps it it is just possible to glimpse the seat closest to the door, which, at an early date was slightly different to the others in that it had parachute static lines mounted on the back. Later, the static lines were incorporated into the parachute pack. The three rearward-facing guys did not have ejection seats and, after jettisoning the cabin door, an "eyelid" operated by elastic cord (!) would flip out and hopefully reduce the blast of air so that they could curl up into a ball and roll out of the aircraft. If that sounds dodgy, how about evacuating a Vulcan with the nose wheel extended?http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o163/de...antcrewseat.jpghttp://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o163/de...nallersseat.jpgThe pilots had ejection seats.http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o163/de...antMk3Aseat.jpgThe cabin floor was made of wood and I remember it as black turned to a dusty grey. My memory (and this is going back 50 years) is of a cabin painted in a dull green, the sort of green associated with an office desk, and not a bright apple green. However, something very clear in my mind is that the UHF antenna - part 18D in the Airfix kit- had the horizontal rod painted bright yellow. I was given a pot of paint and a brush and was told to paint it. I found a giraffe, an adjustable wheeled ladder with a platform, and part way through my emulation of Michelangelo the mobile NAAFI arrived. When I returned I found that the wind had blown over my pot of paint and that there were yellow splashes over the nose of the aircraft.A good photo of the Blue Danube and some drawings can be found on this site-http://nuclear-weapons.info/vw.htmAlthough the drawings are of the Violet Club, the case is the same as that of the Blue Danube.On the subject of Blue Danube - can anyone tell me the correct colour. And before you shout, "blue!", I know that . At least the inert, concrete bombs which I saw were blue. According to something I found on the Internet, RAF practice bombs were Deep Saxe Blue which seems to me to be very dark. I understand that a small colour chip in a book will always look darker than a large surface in sunlight but in Wynn's book, "RAF Nuclear Deterrent Forces", there is a colour photo of an inert Yellow Sun which is more like the blue which I remember seeing.I am still trying to navigate my way around this site and it was by chance that I found the finished model in another section. Not only is that an excellent model but it is of a rather different Valiant. Marvelous work, Melchie!Mike Edited March 4, 2013 by Michou 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thanks fellas, that's really great stuff from both of you!, Robin, I like your plan for the 'cans' and will try it on the next one, I was just too lazy to try anything this time round but your idea makes sense, thanks, Mike...wow, great stuff!!, it's amazed me just how much information has come to light through folks on this site, since starting this project and I'm really going to have tosit down when I have 5 minutes and sort it all into relevent sections to produce the definitive guide to building a decent Valiant..almost a little bible as such!. It's the small details that impress me the most like your tale of the yellow paint! and Robins recollections of Farnborough...by the time this is finished it'll be worth publishing as a guide book.......................Spence any takers??? Thanks again for your input chaps, Melchie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Gripping stuff this thread.The V is not my cup of tea but its really interesting seeing you guys discuss it and watching the Gerneralisamos build. If anyone wants some pics then Rich Ellis has uploaded more to the thread in the walkaround section. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71291 Julien There is also Howard Mason's WA over on Prime Portal: http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/howard_mason2/valiant_bk1/ I have been reading over this whole thread with both admiration and trepidation, since I just got my Valiant kit last week. I will have to decide just how far I want to go, to correct the kit. Of course, I have to wait until Airfix comes out with their photo-recce "aftermarket" set for the kit. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) A question on Valiant drawings, since I do not have the Warpaint book on the Valiant. How accurate are the Aviation News drawings, from Volume 10 Number 14 (4-17 Dec '81)? They were drawn by Colin Brooks, and don't appear to match what's been posted of the Caruana drawings. Larry Edited August 28, 2011 by ReccePhreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 A question on Valiant drawings, since I do not have the Warpaint book on the Valiant. How accurate are the Aviation News drawings, from Volume 10 Number 14 (4-17 Dec '81)? They were drawn by Colin Brooks, and don't appear to match what's been posted of the Caruana drawings.Larry The most accurate plans of the Valiant that I know of are from the old Aero Modeller Plans service and were drawn up in August 1956 (I think). The "die-line" 1/72nd drawings cost me a whole 3 shillings (15p) from my hard earned paper round pocket money. They are still available at:- http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/browser/344/...g-line-drawings, but now cost a fiver I am afraid. The drawings show an early production aircraft (small bomb-aimers station, blunt tail cone etc) but the out line is accurate and they are the ones I am using in conjunction with my kit. DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The most accurate plans of the Valiant that I know of are from the old Aero Modeller Plans service and were drawn up in August 1956 (I think). The "die-line" 1/72nd drawings cost me a whole 3 shillings (15p) from my hard earned paper round pocket money. They are still available at:- http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/browser/344/...g-line-drawings, but now cost a fiver I am afraid. The drawings show an early production aircraft (small bomb-aimers station, blunt tail cone etc) but the out line is accurate and they are the ones I am using in conjunction with my kit. DR Dennis, Thanks for that info on the plans. Unfortunately, not only do the plans now cost £5.00, shipping to the USA costs £7.98!! I'm sorry, but £12.98 ($21.22) is a bit much for me to pay for a set of drawings for only one model kit. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanicity Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 That schematic shot of the ejector seats is like manna from heaven: perfect timing, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 great melchie, i wish i had seen this before building mine, shes nearly there now i will be paying attention to this for the next valiant i build as like you i need a few in the collection as i love all things v force. another idea for this kit with her being so good is what if valiants, like i have seen tsr 2 whifs how about if the valiant had stayed longer in service. hemp scheme, later style camo pattern, current grey livery, i love this kit, i found that the body spacers you need to watch as they hindered the fitting of the bomb bay, (yes i made another flyer) its a funny kit this i found like the nimrod kit that the bits dont seem to dry fit great in areas like the wings, but when the glue is on they just seem to go together perfectly like the plastic has its own inteligence and wants to build it self, all very good. i just hope we now get more v bombers from airfix. a vulcan b1 victor b1 would be top of my list so we could make the 3 v formation of original mk 1 victor valian and vulcan. that would look great hung up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 ..........Hastings, Argosy, Belfast anyone!! YES PLEASE!!!!! i love those, particularly the argosy that is a plane with an interesting asthetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 Cheers folks, I haven't forgotten that I will make a complete list up of all things that need to be corrected on the kit it's just that it's a bit of an on going thing at the moment as the second kit gets under way with yet more mods tried out to increase accuracy as more info comes to light..then there's Dennis (Sloegin57) input!!...that's something else again . Rob, yep everyone seems to be having problems with the spacers with the bomb doors closed, though it's a simple fix to be honest. As for whiffs , it's not something I've thought about but it could get very interesting!...sadly I don't think we will see any other versions of the Victor and Vulcan but who knows....never thought we'd see a half decent IM Valiant!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 well the valiant is good enough for me, im very happy with mine. and ill definaltly be building more. unfortunatley i didnt read before building, i was off work sick and looked at the valiant and thought not to much to do there, how wrong i was.it took a while, the other problem i encounterd was how the wing halfs dont like to line up to well, and the tail was a pain. but i am so gratefull for the valiant. and i do hope and i am optimistic we will get a vulcan and victor someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 It seems that the available drawings are none too reliable so here are some numbers which may be of help. The Valiant length is usually referred as 108 ft 3 in (1299 in). In the stations diagrams above the total length is about 1330 in, but in the plan view it seems to have an extension - without it the numbers are about the published ones (1300 against 1299). Any thoughts about this? C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michou Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The Valiant length is usually referred as 108 ft 3 in (1299 in). In the stations diagrams above the total length is about 1330 in, but in the plan view it seems to have an extension - without it the numbers are about the published ones (1300 against 1299). Any thoughts about this? C The Valiant had a tail warning radar (Orange Putter) and this seems to be associated with the extended fuselage. If you look at the rear cover of Eric Morgan's book on the Valiant there are two photos which clearly show the long and short fuselages and the long fuselage has an unpainted tip which I assume is the dielectric cover for the radar. In my opinion the short fuselage has no radar. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 This is true Mike, a few of the earlier aircraft had the shorter tailcone including the two prototypes, trials aircraft and the sole B2. The extended cones were fitted a little later to incorporate the Orange Putter RWR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Mike, General, Thank you for the enlightenment. Cheers Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michou Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 This is true Mike, a few of the earlier aircraft had the shorter tailcone including the two prototypes, trials aircraft and the sole B2. The extended cones were fitted a little later to incorporate the Orange Putter RWR. So I am a nit-picker but... Orange Putter was not an RWR (radar warning receiver) i.e. a passive device which receives radar emissions. It was a transmitter/receiver, a radar which picked up reflections from an aircraft. Did Valiant crews appreciate this? It must have been like a beacon mounted on the tail of the aircraft. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 You're quite right Mike, my mistake, was in a bit of a rush when typing this, yes Orange Putter was indeed a tail warning radar, not RWR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radpoe Spitfire Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 This is true Mike, a few of the earlier aircraft had the shorter tailcone including the two prototypes, trials aircraft and the sole B2. The extended cones were fitted a little later to incorporate the Orange Putter RWR. Morning General, Interesting point about the tailcone extension, was this fitted to 18 sqn aircraft while they were Finningley based please? Regarrds Rad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 Hi Rad, yes they were, it was mainly the early silver painted Gaydon aircraft that had the shorter cones, though a mix can be seen in several photos of the time, (around 1958).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Here's a list of most mods needed to make the Valiant a lot more accurate. This list is by no means exhaustive as it appears that there are fundamental issues with the overall shape of the model when scaled to well established AP drawings but will entail a lot of work and to be honest when set next to one with these basic updates won't really stand out, I feel being disproportionate to the amount of work needed.  * denotes resin after market update sets that are in the process of development, ( I helped design some of the parts)...  Fuselage, Basically the biggest issues here are the panel lines, all are too deep and prominent and could do with either sanding back or filling to avoid the 'Corgi die-cast' look. A couple are in the wrong place, in particular the one running vertically back just ahead of the cockpit, this one should line up with the front of the windscreen and so the old lines should be filled and sanded smooth and new one rescribed, (this makes the grey radome area shorter which is correct).  The bomb bay is odd in that the cross braces don't appear to fit correctly, (well on mine at least though a few pals have reported the same issue), and need reducing to ensure a good tight fit.....strange, best to test fit first.  Smaller things like the seats which are poor and need replacing along with the instrument coaming which is too small and shallow.There are also a framework of small struts behind the top windows in the cockpit which due to their location very obvious on the real thing, (easily made from stretched sprue).  Tail fin, A few things here, basically the fin cap is incorrect in that it is too high and of the wrong profile and so needs cutting back down, (note that the top of the rudder section is actually flat so where the tail cap curves down slightly at the rear end the continuation of the rudder top must be level, producing a kink, see article details...........* The six trim actuators, (three either side), running down the rear of the rudder are missing for some reason and must be fabricated from scrap, again see article for positioning, The bottom of the rudder line is incorrect and needs filling and sanding. The correct line continues on from the smaller one, ( just above, to the left), running diagonally down to the rear bottom of the rudder. again see article ...........*  The VG's are too thick and slightly misaligned, better replacing with thin Plasticard and angling them slightly more into the airflow, see article ...........*  There is a small intake at the front of the base of the fin that needs adding, more a 'notch' style but very noticeable on the real thing, again addressed in the new set.  Tailplane, The trailing edges, like those of the wings need thinning here and more importantly VG's need adding to the top of the tailplane, (four either side), as well as the bottom, something Airfix missed completely..* Sadly like the wings the sweep angle is wrong too and will need major work to correct, something I'm having a go at and will try to include in a future resin update set.  Undercarriage , (main), mostly OK but there is a major strut that is missing here running diagonally from the main , again see article for details..............* Too my eyes the main wheels still look slightly undersized but I'm not 100% on this!  Main gear doors are way off shape wise and need completely new inner surface detail..................*  (The doors and inner detail of the gear bay are also wrong and will be addressed in a new set).  Nose bay, Several bits missing here, new main actuator struts, ancillary equipment and detail parts ..........*  The gear leg location hole is in the wrong place and needs to be relocated forward as well as the height of the oleo altered, see article...............*  Nose gear doors, These are too deep and need cutting back 4mm, which in turn unfortunately means that you must add small strips of card to the bay reveals to compensate.................*  Wings, Starting at the tips the fuel dump pipes are too short and need replacing with correct gauge aluminium tubing bent down to correct angle, The sweep angle is slightly wrong here and will need major surgery to correct, something I'm working on with Dennis's help. For now though it look like a Valiant's wing and that'll be good enough for most folks!  Alleycat's new intake and exhaust sets will help here as the cans can be added at the end of the build rather than at the start, making painting a lot easier.  Kit Intakes, These are OK but need a bit of work to finish well, the inner seams needing a lot of careful filling and sanding, again Alleycat's set really helps here, also the small airflow diverter plate's need horizontal struts adding, (included in the set).  As mentioned all trailing edges need thinning down.  There may be other things that I've forgotten at this time but I'm in the process of building another at the moment and will try to increase accuracy as best I can so that I can pass info on to anyone interested..  Hope this helps,  Cheers, Melchie... Edited June 24, 2019 by general melchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Most excellent General, sah. I'll be printing that list off tonight, when I get in. Thanks awfully, old chap. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Typical isn't it but whilst building another one of these I've noticed another error that's not glaringly obvious until it comes to painting and masking the camouflage demarcation line. The two small oblong vents on either side of the forward fuselage are too high on the sides and need to be lowered 4mm so that they come under the camo line rather than above it. It's not really that obvious on a white schemed model ! I had to sand them off after painting which is a pain and will need to add them later which is even more of a pain....but it just doesn't look right if left as is....blimey what's next ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Well you are doing a grand job General. Your explanation is a great help, even thou you seem to be having many problems . That seems to be a modeling trait in getting things accurate but finding something else that needs fixing. Nice work and watching with Interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dock_Ru Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Hi, everybody! There is a wish for photos of a cockpit of Vickers ValiantI started building Vickers Valiant from Airfix 1/72, as always, I began with a cockpit. And if photos of a control panel and chairs of pilots in a network still are, it is few good photos of lateral dashboards of pilots. Absolutely there is no information on a lobby - on flight - a wall of a mate compartment. And it both a ladder, and a door in bombardirny, both a little table any, and the filter for plane escape - da is a lot of that. Crew chairs - the navigator, the goal-scorer, the radio operator - according to available photos and shots from movies - the most general idea are, but too it would be desirable in more detail.Therefore I ask – whether English friends can resolve my questions, having visited natural Valiant and having finished shooting necessary places? Or suddenly at somebody it already everything lies at home in the computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheellaw Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hi, everybody! There is a wish for photos of a cockpit of Vickers Valiant I started building Vickers Valiant from Airfix 1/72, as always, I began with a cockpit. And if photos of a control panel and chairs of pilots in a network still are, it is few good photos of lateral dashboards of pilots. Absolutely there is no information on a lobby - on flight - a wall of a mate compartment. And it both a ladder, and a door in bombardirny, both a little table any, and the filter for plane escape - da is a lot of that. Crew chairs - the navigator, the goal-scorer, the radio operator - according to available photos and shots from movies - the most general idea are, but too it would be desirable in more detail. Therefore I ask – whether English friends can resolve my questions, having visited natural Valiant and having finished shooting necessary places? Or suddenly at somebody it already everything lies at home in the computer? Look in this thread . There's s couple good ones of an ugly green crew stations and a cockpit. Page through this old post you'll find them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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