Those Malta Spitfire Colours Again

[JohnT]

I found these photos while looking for something else.

The quality is very good and it does rather prove the aircraft had to be painted in the blue scheme while already on board and not before being taken abord - if this helps anything ?

I am really crap at doing the photo thingy but here is the clicky below and hopefully someone who knows about how to do these things will import the pics here

http://ww2db.com/images/ship_wasp14.jpg

and

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=11853

any thoughts chaps beyond the discussion as to whether RAF paint stocks went on board or more likely they just used whatever the USN had in the stores that would be "near enough"

John

PS quick edit - was looking at the second pic and the wing tips have been removed presumably for loading. Would that be normal? I assume they were standard wings and not clipped ones? I had always thought they were not clipped

PPS found some more ! Note though any captioned May 1942 would be the second delivery and 603 went in the first in April 1942 as I understand it

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=1916

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=11855

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=11854

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=10382

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=11860

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=11856

"RAF Sgt Pilot Smith" was actually a Canadian PO Jerrold Smith not of 603. His exploit got him, unusually, a drink on Wasp from Douglas Fairbanks Junior. Sadly Smith was killed on Malta on 10 August 1942

Edited July 6, 2011 by JohnT

[davidelvy]

Very interesting. Some of the images I have seen before, but not of this quality.

Some of the paintwork is very rough and you can imagine sailors applying it with wide, flat brushes - especially where the upper and lower colours meet. I note, however, that one picture shows an uneven upper/lower demarcation, but clearly retains a two-tone clour scheme on the upper sufaces (the aircraft with the codes 3*M). This would seem to be evidence against the proposition that the aircraft were overpainted in a single colour. I am, of course, presuming that an uneven demarcation is a sign of overpainting as the aircraft would have left the factory with a straight demarcation between upper and lower colours.

Thanks for the links.

[gingerbob]

Thanks, John.

The first link didn't work for me, but the rest did. The wingtips were removed for loading aboard- in some photos (unless I'm mixing it up with another event) you can see them stuffed in the cockpit!

bob

[Test Graham]

The first delivery, Calendar, saw aircraft overpainted in a single colour. Aircraft on this delivery carried codes 1X and 2x. The specific blue tone occurs on aircraft from this delivery - other references tend to mention grey as an overpaint. However, references to the ambiguous blue-grey also occurs, and RAF grey paints tend to fade to the blue.

The second delivery, Bowery, did not see overpainting and the aircraft carried codes 3x and 4x.

A USN researcher has claimed that Wasp's records do not include British paint being loaded. I asked if they included other Spitfire-specific consumables but he didn't answer. The USN had no aircraft camouflage colour darker than the Blue Grey seen on the Wildcat, and distinctly lighter than the colour on the Spitfire.

[Edgar]

7-4-42, a Malta signal was received, asking that future deliveries should be painted in sea scheme, which, if complied with, could mean that Bowery a/c were Slate Grey/Extra Dark Sea Grey. No date known, but Lettice Curtis remarked on delivering freshly-painted Spitfires to Scotland.

Edgar

[Work In Progress]

Oops. Thought I had managed to get the first pic to display directly here, but apparently not...

Edited July 7, 2011 by Work In Progress

[Super Aereo]

IIRC, USN Blue Gray was prone to severe fading: couldn't that be used to explain the tonal differences between Wildcats and Spitfires?

Another hypothesis could be that the paint might have been stored and carried aboard within the aircraft themselves, mind you...

[Test Graham]

Re fading - a fair point, but the Spitfires seem to be a lot darker than USN Blue Gray ever appears. Having the photos taken in the poor light of dawn doesn't help, but the picture of Weaver's Spit down on the beach doesn't look like faded ESN Blue Gray either.

[Jennings Heilig]

Shades of over ten years ago... This ground was gone over, and over, and over, and over, and over when I was working on the original Victory Models Spitfire Aces sheet eons ago. We had all of those images, and the upshot is, nobody yet knows, nor will we likely ever know for sure what color those airplanes were painted. There are just too many variables, too many unknowables, and too much water under the bridge. All we can do is make educated guesses, to a greater or lesser degree.

My own gut feeling is that they were likely painted in standard USN Blue Gray, but I have nothing more compelling than my gut to prove that. Knowing how desperate the situation was, I'd find it highly unlikely somebody would have thought to ship RAF paints onboard a USN carrier. The object of the exercise was to get replacement airplanes to Malta as quickly and efficiently as possible, and I very much doubt that any forethought was given to what color they were painted before they shipped out. Malta was about to fall (and with it the Med), so the color of the defending airplanes would have been about number 247 on their list of ten important things to consider. Once underway, someone probably came up with the idea to camouflage them to blend in with the sea around the island. That's the only thing that makes much sense to me.

J

[airart]

Please allow me to put my little input into this argument.

As far as is 'officially' known only the first consignment through USS Wasp (Operation Calendar) were roughly overpainted in blue as specified through a signal received on the ship just after leaving Gibraltar. This is clearly confirmed through an excellent set of photographs taken on the ship throughout the voyage from the loading of the Spitfires onto the carrier up to their launch. It should be noted that of the 47 Spitfires from this consignment only a handful remained serviceable within a week, mainly through enemy action but also due to inexperienced pilots (thus AOC Malta's famous signal to the War Office: "this is no place for beginners").

No such order seems to have been issued for Operation Bowery, that brought to Malta 64 Spitfires through USS Wasp and HMS Eagle on 9 May 1942. Photographs taken on the ship prior to the launch and after landing shows these Spitfires in two-tone camouflage. Going by eye-witness reports these were finished in 'yellow/brown on top with blue underneath'. My recent involvement in research for the making of a Channel 9 (Australia) documentary unearthed some interesting facts. Focus of the story was Flt Sgt 'Tony' Boyd, an Aussie who had been flying Hurricanes with No.185 Squadron at Hal Far at the time of Bowery, who was one of the first pilots of his squadron to be allocated a Spitfire. He flew it for the first time on the day of arrival (9 May), then operationally on the 10th scoring a Ju88 'probable'. Two sorties on 13 May proved fruitless; then on 14 May he flew a sortie in the morning shooting down a Bf 109G. He was shot down by a Macchi C.202 during a second sortie that day in the afternoon. Below is an eye witness account by Denis Barnham, CO No. 601 Squadron, of Boyd's crash:

From: "Against All Odds", Lex McAulay, Hutchinson Australia, 1989, page 87

No further comments at this stage.

RJC

[Test Graham]

Knowing how desperate the situation was, I'd find it highly unlikely somebody would have thought to ship RAF paints onboard a USN carrier. The object of the exercise was to get replacement airplanes to Malta as quickly and efficiently as possible, and I very much doubt that any forethought was given to what color they were painted before they shipped out. J

If they could ship 50 Spitfires, and their required support, to Glasgow for the Wasp, a few gallons of paint does not seem to be too difficult to achieve.

The initial repaints were not on the Calendar delivery, but on Malta, on the earlier aircraft delivered by Eagle. This has been described as a dark grey. Malta then requested that future deliveries be made in a more appropriate colour, and Edgar has published the appropriate Air Ministry memo describing it as "a sea camouflage". So yes, there very definitely was "forethought given".

Elsewhere in his book, Barnham describes his own (Calendar) Spitfire as "blue" and as "blue-grey". His painting in the Imperial War Museum shows a strong blue - similar to that seen on the photo of Weaver's aircraft and considerably more intense than USN Blue Grey. Whatever it was, it looked like nothing in the USN's inventory.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Graham Boak

[Edgar]

In 1935 Malta sent samples of three colours, devised by them for use on the island, including a topside blue, which matched the most common colour of the surrounding sea (they said.) Of course, by 1940 there might have been no stocks of this paint, but there's the intriguing possibility that some aircraft were repainted with this blue, after they arrived on the island (and when there was time available.) I've been told of a "Bosun Blue," which might have originated on Malta.

The other colours are Malta's red earth and off-white stone.

Edgar

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

Of the colour samples posted by Edgar (above). The brown and blue look very similar to those Israeli air force used in 50's - 60's. Just an observation.

Regards,

Kari

[mhaselden]

I think the "Bosun Blue" was applied to the PR Hurricanes that were transferred from the Mediterranean/North Africa to the Far East in early 1942. If the above colour swatch is a reasonable approximation for Bosun Blue (taking into consideration different monitor settings etc) then it would make a most striking model.

[Test Graham]

I thought "Bosun Blue", as on the PR Hurricanes, was meant to be darker? The blue colour above does seem not too far from the blue appearing on both Barnham's painting and the Weaver photo, but after allowing for all possible variations that's not an overwhelming recommendation. Barnham also refers to the colour as "blue-grey", which I don't think applies to such a "pure" hue, and other references are to a grey, a dark grey and to Extra Dark Sea Grey: not that we should assume they were all describing the same colour, of course.

[Super Aereo]

(...) a strong blue - similar to that seen on the photo of Weaver's aircraft and considerably more intense than USN Blue Grey.

All the version of the image of Weaver's aircraft I have seen appeared to show a dark grey rather than a blue: did I miss something..?

[Test Graham]

Fairly clearly a blue, if arguably with a greyish tinge. See Matusiak's Spitfire Mk.V from MMP, or contact me offline.

[Steve in Ottawa]

I think I've mentioned this before, but isn't there a series of colour photos extant of some Malta Spitfires?

It seems to me that there is an Italian fellow holding on to them closely and not putting them in any kind of circulation, pending some future revenue-generating use for them.

I have seen one released photo from this series of a crashed aircraft on the beach, but it had been so badly mutilated by the owner/poster that it was near impossible to make out anything useful on the image.

[Giorgio N]

I think I've mentioned this before, but isn't there a series of colour photos extant of some Malta Spitfires?

It seems to me that there is an Italian fellow holding on to them closely and not putting them in any kind of circulation, pending some future revenue-generating use for them.

I have seen one released photo from this series of a crashed aircraft on the beach, but it had been so badly mutilated by the owner/poster that it was near impossible to make out anything useful on the image.

The picture of Weaver's crashed aircraft printed in the reference mentioned by Graham is of good quality and is not mutilated at all, might be worth looking for that book (and it's a very good book too).

[Super Aereo]

I do have the MMP volume on the Spitfire Mk.V, but in my copy the overall colour would seem to be more grey than blue (the photo appears to have a blue dominant of sorts), although this could still be consistent with the discolouration of USN Blue-Gray.

Never heard of a series of photos, but the concept of someone having such photos without wanting to publicise them would not sound completely implausible in the rarified and competitive atmosphere of Italian research, alas...