Epeeman Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Good god, this kit (so far) is a real experience in frustration - I'm no where near installing top wing (where I am expecting problems) but getting things together is proving difficult. I have built some Eduard kits before and have had no great problems with fit. However, this Camel kit just does not want to fit together well. In addition, getting the PE parts on is fiddly beyond belief! These PE parts are not only tiny in this scale, but some require being folded into shape before fitting to the model. I'm beginning to wish I had gone for the weekend edition without these. In fact, I'm getting pretty put off from using these again in the future and wonder if the extra detail is really worth the effort. As I have stated before, I am no professional modeller (build mainly OOB) so I suppose a more 'professional' modeller may not find this sort a kit such a challenge. I just hope I can get this kit together in the end. Epeeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Tango Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I know what you mean, I just dont see eye to eye with PE and yet a lot of people swear by it, me, I just swear at it. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 (edited) I've certainly found it a challenge too, but I now have 7 x 1/48 Eduard kits with PE under my belt and it does get easier as you learn a few tricks. One of the best 'tricks' was to stick the entire fret of PE on to a piece of masking tape and use a new scalpel blade to detach the bits as required. To fold them I use an old blunt scalpel blade to hold the piece in place and the new one to reach under and lift/fold it into shape. I put superglue on the model with a small stick, not on the PE, then drop the piece onto the glue with pointy tweezers. Stick with it, it really is worth the effort - I can now make Spandau machine guns out of PE in my sleep! Edited July 4, 2011 by 487 Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 One other thing; I find Selleys 'house-hold' general purpose superglue to be far easier to use than specialist modeller's CA glue. It seems 'tackier' and goes off a bit faster, which suits me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epeeman Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Thanks, gentleman - I guess it could get easier, but I still wonder if it really is worth the effort. PE aside, so far the fit of this Eduard Camel has not been great. That said, just come away from a couple of hours at the 'work bench' and the work has not been quite so frustrating this evening - now have cockpit and lower wing installed. Fencing tomorrow evening so this will give me a little break from this kit. Epeeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Well Epeeman, I've decided to get on with my kit, and I'd have to say that it isn't as easy as the other Eduard kits I've built. Unlike the other kits it has quite pronounced moulding lines and is quite fiddly, a little like the Fokker DR.1. Anyway I've got a bit of catching up to do, but post up your experiences and perhaps we can nut this one out together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo Aero Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The Eduard Camel was the most challenging biplane I've built so far (the Roden D.VII was the most annoying, but that's another story!), but if I could build it, anyone can. The trick is to take your time, treat each step as its own little project, and above all maintain an optimistic attitude. If you start losing patience, walk away and come back to it later. Don't forget to breathe! You already have the cockpit and lower wing installed, so you have made some very good progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epeeman Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Thank you both for the helpful and encouraging words - Yes, I will update as I go along - and try both to remain positive and be patient with it. Epeeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the South African Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Guys I've a bit of a silly question:Why does everyone insist on buggering up new no 11 blades?I have a much cheaper and not so easily breakable option.Use a carpet knife.The blades is at least as sharp as a no 11 blade, has two sharp sides and if stuck into the jaws of a old hand vice grip with epoxy glue with the blunt sides towards the front becomes a very passable PE bender that save a lot of time effort and frustrationhope it helps a bit and keep at the project I am sure it will be well worth the effort and patience in the end Ep.Before I forget it may also be worth anealing the brass (if it is unpainted ) before using it. Hope the "advice" helps a bit. Regards: Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Epeeman, what edition of the kit are you building? I have the 8056 boxing and Step 6 of the instructions requires you to choose which upper deck to use - the only problem is that it recommends part C7 for versions A, E, and F, but also recommends part C7 for all the other versions. Obviously a misprint (one of them should be C2), but perhaps you have a different boxing that has been corrected? Incidentally, have you decided which version you are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epeeman Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Thanks, gents - As it happens, I just use one of my old blunt blades to remove the PE from the frame. I have used PE a couple of times in the past and this kit is convincing me that I will avoid it in the future other than for seat belts. As regards the kit, it is the same one - and yes, this confused me so I just went my own and decided on part (I think) C2 the enclosed top deck. The version I have in mind is either E or G - Moyle or Barker. I must admit I don't overly worry about spot on detail. After all, is not a model just a representation of the subject? I find it amusing people worry overly on getting the precise colour shades, aircraft detail, etc. From what I've read, nobody really knows for sure exactly what colours were used on these WW1 machines anyway. I hope to be having another bash on the model this evening. Epeeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hi Guys, I've been looking in on this and wondering if I have anything worthwhile to add. I'm still not sure so have to begin with the admission that my first attempt at this kit ended with it being hurled at the floor and stamped on. I had so many things go wrong with it, the final straw was all 4 cabane struts pinging loose at one end or the other! Cue red mist and 1 trashed model. I don't often do this, the last time was 5 or 6 years ago and a Roden 1/48 Fokker D.VII with struts bending and decals coming off in my hands. Ok, so there is a more encouraging side. Fool that I am, I refuse to be defeated so got the Dual Combo, took a deep breath, and started again after about 6 months in therapy. I had no real issues with fuselage/lower wing, up until then everything was fine. I think the crap starts with those struts, and getting the top wing on. I suggest boring out the location holes for all of them with a 0.7 or up to 1.0 mm drill, not all the way through, mind. just deepen them and make the location sockets more positive. Secure the cabane struts to the fuselage with cyano, flip the top wing over, & the fuselage and locate all 4 cabanes in their upper wing holes. Dont glue anything on the top wing, just let it all set or use acceleraotor to lock the cyano. Obvioulsy you need to check the alignment of everything, and support the fuselage with lego blocks or similar. I then painted the lower wing/fuselage unit, and upper wing The reason I put the cabanes in first is that it all glues up much more securely before any paint has been applied. The last stage is to flip the upper wing over again, pit a drop of cyano in each cabane strut hole, and lower the fuselage cabanes onto it. Then do the 2 forward main struts, then the 2 rear main struts. It is fiddly, but do-able, and fits the top wing ok. However, there is a 'gotcha' which I didn't notice until it was well too late. The top wing/struts will set too far forward without being noticable. Look what happened to mine, its obvious when I put the 2 Camels together, the top one is wrong, putting the incidence of the top wing out of kilter as well. I didn't notice until I had rigged it; Anyway, I managed to finish them both, but I would have to say that this is probably one of the most difficult biplane kits I have built. Here's what I finished with; Good luck! It can be done, and actually looks like a Camel when its finished, Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo Aero Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Nice Camels!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdo Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Lovely job John, what did you do the chrome with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epeeman Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Good work, John - Thanks for sharing your experience on this - appreciated. I think the method of installing the cabane struts and aligning is the way I will probably go when I finally get to this stage. Epeeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Beautiful, Viking - an inspiration! Here's my feeble progress so far A bit more swearing, a few broken parts, but the wing is on... Time for a break. Edited July 7, 2011 by 487 Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Lovely job John, what did you do the chrome with? Murdo, Its Alcald chrome over humbrol goss black. To be honest, it isn't really accurate. I was just trying out this alclad stuff and thought I might get a nice polished cowl with it. I certainly did! I wouldn't use it again from an accuracy point of view, but it certainly gives you a good bright shiny finish. 487 - waddayamean 'feeble effort' Thats top notch work your showing there. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 A 'heads-up' Epeeman - the rigging diagrammes in our instructions are wrong. The rear-most tail wire doesn't go from the elevator through the rudder as indicated - check Viking's pics to see how it should be (thanks Viking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epeeman Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Thanks for the heads up on the tail rigging, mate - noted. Not much progress to report other than made a start on painting - got the nose and underside of fuselage done. No work this evening and probably none until Sunday evening. Epeeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 A couple more discoveries - if you are doing rigging, then the wire shown immediately behind the double flying wire should also be double. The open upper deck was a later production modification to allow better access to un-jamb the guns - although I still can't find out what particular plane had what. Lastly, the underneath of the fuselage of the Hollingworth 'H' machine should be Clear Doped Linen, not PC10 as shown. p.s. anyone got a spare PE part number 17? The carpet monster ate mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) A great set of reference pics of a real Camel can be seen here: http://www.mincbergr.net/index.php?page=sopwith-camel Anyway, I've glued all the PE in place (apart from the bit I lost), and have painted the underside whilst I procrastinate a little more about which version to do. As it allows a bit more procrastination I've followed Viking's advice and have superglued the front two struts in place on the fuselage before painting the top. My glue is rather slow to set, so once half-set I used the wing to measure to gap required at the lower end, then trapped them until mostly dry. I'll leave them now to go rock solid. Here's hoping... OK, after the front two struts were hard, I glued the rear two in place on the fuselage, flipped the whole assembly, and lowered it on to the wing to position. A bit of fiddling, now I'm going to finish watching the movie whilst it all hardens (i.e. quit while I'm ahead). Edited July 9, 2011 by 487 Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darby Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I think I would 'get the hump' (pardon the pun). Some Eduard just fall together, some like the ones I choose just seem to stick two fingers up at me during the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 A little bit of progress today - my Wife found my missing part in the carpet (she muttered something about a 'stupid man look' or something), anyway I glued it on and got the colour on top, but back to work tomorrow. Epeeman, I think Viking is on to something. The struts have locked on solid and should make fitting the wing relatively straight forward from here (have I just cursed myself by writing this?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
487 Squadron Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) It looks as if the 'flip it upside down' method was how they built the real thing! Edited July 10, 2011 by 487 Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 It looks as if the 'flip it upside down' method was how they built the real thing! He's going to need a wee bit of filler to finish that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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